The American Eviction Crisis: Countdown to Doomsday

[Plzen]

Here's the issue that all of you who are suggesting that landlords are immoral have to deal with: in the US system, there can only be three outcomes: you own the home, the bank owns the home, or the landlord owns the home.

You say that as if the US system is an unchangeable constant which all Americans just have to accept and work with. That is, of course, not true - systems can be changed.

Society can avoid having to deal with immoral landlords by having the State own the housing, for instance. While eventual change is not helpful in resolving a crisis like this one, it will help in ensuring that such things do not happen again. It can even be done gradually - charge a hefty tax on property to be nationalised and use the revenue from that tax to buy that property.

[Saiwania]

Assuming the 28 million are made homeless, this could be a great boon for the formation of paramilitaries. The times will perhaps become more interesting once again. One half can form the Red Front while the other half might be a Sturmabteilung equivalent. I know which faction I'd back. There are at least some revolutionaries who're willing to not let an opportunity like this pass.

[Trollgaard]

I don't know nor am I sure if anything can be done. Unless they want to suspend rent until their is a vaccine which is also a terrible idea. Suspending rent was a terrible idea that was not thought out in the slightest and our executives don't seem to care.

All I know is that the future is getting more and more bleak, and that the vaccine can't come soon enough.

I vaccine may not work. I've heard that people's immunities only seem to last a few weeks/months or something.

[San Lumen]

All I know is that the future is getting more and more bleak, and that the vaccine can't come soon enough.

I vaccine may not work. I've heard that people's immunities only seem to last a few weeks/months or something.

Not the thread for this but vaccines immunity likely lasts longer from what i heard

[Dominioan]

All I know is that the future is getting more and more bleak, and that the vaccine can't come soon enough.

I vaccine may not work. I've heard that people's immunities only seem to last a few weeks/months or something.

A bit more time, and if enough people get it, then slowly it will infect less and less over time

[Mirjt]

I don't know nor am I sure if anything can be done. Unless they want to suspend rent until their is a vaccine which is also a terrible idea. Suspending rent was a terrible idea that was not thought out in the slightest and our executives don't seem to care.

All I know is that the future is getting more and more bleak, and that the vaccine can't come soon enough.

Ready for an even more bleak outlook: The pandemic is likely to last 2-3 years, and the vaccine may not be that effect because we are learning a lot about the novel coronavirus right now and now it is looking like immunity to covid-19 may be short-lived as more people are getting re-infected (which weakens the effectiveness of herd immunity and the vaccine). The housing crisis was already here before the pandemic hit, the pandemic and the economic crash that accompanied it just made much worse. The economic crash already is starting to meet many of the hallmarks of a global depression (not recession), and it is not done crashing. The U.S. dollar is already losing worldwide legitimacy and unless our government does something soon it is not likely to continue to be the World's reserve currency much longer (though it will still probably take a decade or two for the world to switch off our dollar as the reserve currency). The Republicans are actively doing the opposite of what they should be doing, and the Democrats, who aren't following the example set by the Republicans, are putting up such a weak fight for such an inadequate response, that if we have a Republican or divided government again we can reasonably expect mass death and possibly extinction level threats (within the next decade), and a Democratic response may keep us alive but just barely. The U.S. government is using secret police to silence their opposition. Trump may try to challenge the legitimacy of our election if it is not in his favor (right now while Biden is winning, statistically either candidate can win), which could erupt into all kinds of civil unrest. You would think that the pandemic and the economic crash would reveal the problems with our system and people would wake up, but our politically leadership is acting as if they can response to this the same way they did in 2008, and you have people outright rejecting reality and refusing to wear masks.

Well that was very depressing, now for some positivity, we can try to work together to save people's lives and homes and our world. Let's discuss positive responses to the eviction crisis. If anyone knows of any resources that can help people find free or affordable legal aid to protect themselves from eviction please share, if anyone knows of any mutual aid organizations that can help house those whom lost their homes, if anyone knows of anything that can help please share with everyone here, and everyone here please share such resources as much as you can elsewhere as well.

You can call your representatives (though I recommend using a pre-written script to make your call as effective as possible) and demand action be taken on the housing issue (among others). Here is a website that will help you find the phone numbers for each of your representatives (at the Federal, State, and Local levels): https://www.commoncause.org/find-your-representative/

[Mirjt]

I vaccine may not work. I've heard that people's immunities only seem to last a few weeks/months or something.

Not the thread for this but vaccines immunity likely lasts longer from what i heard

I heard the opposite.

[San Lumen]

All I know is that the future is getting more and more bleak, and that the vaccine can't come soon enough.

Ready for an even more bleak outlook: The pandemic is likely to last 2-3 years, and the vaccine may not be that effect because we are learning a lot about the novel coronavirus right now and now it is looking like immunity to covid-19 may be short-lived as more people are getting re-infected (which weakens the effectiveness of herd immunity and the vaccine). The housing crisis was already here before the pandemic hit, the pandemic and the economic crash that accompanied it just made much worse. The economic crash already is starting to meet many of the hallmarks of a global depression (not recession), and it is not done crashing. The U.S. dollar is already losing worldwide legitimacy and unless our government does something soon it is not likely to continue to be the World's reserve currency much longer (though it will still probably take a decade or two for the world to switch off our dollar as the reserve currency). The Republicans are actively doing the opposite of what they should be doing, and the Democrats, who aren't following the example set by the Republicans, are putting up such a weak fight for such an inadequate response, that if we have a Republican or divided government again we can reasonably expect mass death and possibly extinction level threats (within the next decade), and a Democratic response may keep us alive but just barely. The U.S. government is using secret police to silence their opposition. Trump may try to challenge the legitimacy of our election if it is not in his favor (right now while Biden is winning, statistically either candidate can win), which could erupt into all kinds of civil unrest. You would think that the pandemic and the economic crash would reveal the problems with our system and people would wake up, but our politically leadership is acting as if they can response to this the same way they did in 2008, and you have people outright rejecting reality and refusing to wear masks.

Well that was very depressing, now for some positivity, we can try to work together to save people's lives and homes and our world. Let's discuss positive responses to the eviction crisis. If anyone knows of any resources that can help people find free or affordable legal aid to protect themselves from eviction please share, if anyone knows of any mutual aid organizations that can help house those whom lost their homes, if anyone knows of anything that can help please share with everyone here, and everyone here please share such resources as much as you can elsewhere as well.

You can call your representatives (though I recommend using a pre-written script to make your call as effective as possible) and demand action be taken on the housing issue (among others). Here is a website that will help you find the phone numbers for each of your representatives (at the Federal, State, and Local levels): https://www.commoncause.org/find-your-representative/

if we keep up current measures for that long there wont be much of an economy left and the great depression will look like nothing. The homeless rate will make that look like good times

[Dominioan]

All I know is that the future is getting more and more bleak, and that the vaccine can't come soon enough.

Ready for an even more bleak outlook: The pandemic is likely to last 2-3 years, and the vaccine may not be that effect because we are learning a lot about the novel coronavirus right now and now it is looking like immunity to covid-19 may be short-lived as more people are getting re-infected (which weakens the effectiveness of herd immunity and the vaccine). The housing crisis was already here before the pandemic hit, the pandemic and the economic crash that accompanied it just made much worse. The economic crash already is starting to meet many of the hallmarks of a global depression (not recession), and it is not done crashing. The U.S. dollar is already losing worldwide legitimacy and unless our government does something soon it is not likely to continue to be the World's reserve currency much longer (though it will still probably take a decade or two for the world to switch off our dollar as the reserve currency). The Republicans are actively doing the opposite of what they should be doing, and the Democrats, who aren't following the example set by the Republicans, are putting up such a weak fight for such an inadequate response, that if we have a Republican or divided government again we can reasonably expect mass death and possibly extinction level threats (within the next decade), and a Democratic response may keep us alive but just barely. The U.S. government is using secret police to silence their opposition. Trump may try to challenge the legitimacy of our election if it is not in his favor (right now while Biden is winning, statistically either candidate can win), which could erupt into all kinds of civil unrest. You would think that the pandemic and the economic crash would reveal the problems with our system and people would wake up, but our politically leadership is acting as if they can response to this the same way they did in 2008, and you have people outright rejecting reality and refusing to wear masks.

Well that was very depressing, now for some positivity, we can try to work together to save people's lives and homes and our world. Let's discuss positive responses to the eviction crisis. If anyone knows of any resources that can help people find free or affordable legal aid to protect themselves from eviction please share, if anyone knows of any mutual aid organizations that can help house those whom lost their homes, if anyone knows of anything that can help please share with everyone here, and everyone here please share such resources as much as you can elsewhere as well.

You can call your representatives (though I recommend using a pre-written script to make your call as effective as possible) and demand action be taken on the housing issue (among others). Here is a website that will help you find the phone numbers for each of your representatives (at the Federal, State, and Local levels): https://www.commoncause.org/find-your-representative/

When the positive paragraphs are barely the size of the negative one and barely has any actual positive information

Its not like there is much though, so I can't complain

[Mirjt]

Ready for an even more bleak outlook: The pandemic is likely to last 2-3 years, and the vaccine may not be that effect because we are learning a lot about the novel coronavirus right now and now it is looking like immunity to covid-19 may be short-lived as more people are getting re-infected (which weakens the effectiveness of herd immunity and the vaccine). The housing crisis was already here before the pandemic hit, the pandemic and the economic crash that accompanied it just made much worse. The economic crash already is starting to meet many of the hallmarks of a global depression (not recession), and it is not done crashing. The U.S. dollar is already losing worldwide legitimacy and unless our government does something soon it is not likely to continue to be the World's reserve currency much longer (though it will still probably take a decade or two for the world to switch off our dollar as the reserve currency). The Republicans are actively doing the opposite of what they should be doing, and the Democrats, who aren't following the example set by the Republicans, are putting up such a weak fight for such an inadequate response, that if we have a Republican or divided government again we can reasonably expect mass death and possibly extinction level threats (within the next decade), and a Democratic response may keep us alive but just barely. The U.S. government is using secret police to silence their opposition. Trump may try to challenge the legitimacy of our election if it is not in his favor (right now while Biden is winning, statistically either candidate can win), which could erupt into all kinds of civil unrest. You would think that the pandemic and the economic crash would reveal the problems with our system and people would wake up, but our politically leadership is acting as if they can response to this the same way they did in 2008, and you have people outright rejecting reality and refusing to wear masks.

Well that was very depressing, now for some positivity, we can try to work together to save people's lives and homes and our world. Let's discuss positive responses to the eviction crisis. If anyone knows of any resources that can help people find free or affordable legal aid to protect themselves from eviction please share, if anyone knows of any mutual aid organizations that can help house those whom lost their homes, if anyone knows of anything that can help please share with everyone here, and everyone here please share such resources as much as you can elsewhere as well.

You can call your representatives (though I recommend using a pre-written script to make your call as effective as possible) and demand action be taken on the housing issue (among others). Here is a website that will help you find the phone numbers for each of your representatives (at the Federal, State, and Local levels): https://www.commoncause.org/find-your-representative/

if we keep up current measures for that long there wont be much of an economy left and the great depression will look like nothing. The homeless rate will make that look like good times

I know, my statement affirms that.

[San Lumen]

if we keep up current measures for that long there wont be much of an economy left and the great depression will look like nothing. The homeless rate will make that look like good times

I know, my statement affirms that.

Our leaders dont seem to care as they didn't think any of this through. With the likely looming economic collapse that is coming it probably would have been better to do nothing at all as the response will be even worse than the pandemic ever could be

[Dominioan]

if we keep up current measures for that long there wont be much of an economy left and the great depression will look like nothing. The homeless rate will make that look like good times

I know, my statement affirms that.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

[Shofercia]

Here's the issue that all of you who are suggesting that landlords are immoral have to deal with: in the US system, there can only be three outcomes: you own the home, the bank owns the home, or the landlord owns the home.

You say that as if the US system is an unchangeable constant which all Americans just have to accept and work with. That is, of course, not true - systems can be changed.

Society can avoid having to deal with immoral landlords by having the State own the housing, for instance. While eventual change is not helpful in resolving a crisis like this one, it will help in ensuring that such things do not happen again. It can even be done gradually - charge a hefty tax on property to be nationalised and use the revenue from that tax to buy that property.

And who will manage it? You think owning a house in a First World country as interconnected as the US is easy? The state lets people live free on Historic Property as long as they manage it, and pay for its upkeep, so the state can't manage shit. The Democrats and Republicans can't even figure out how to do a proper rent and mortgage freeze.

This crisis arose because America's Healthcare System is expensive and inefficient, not because America's Property Management System is bad; it's not. You're blaming America's Property Management System for the idiocy of America's Healthcare System, that's like someone punching you in the face, and you blaming your own blood for coming out. It's not the blood, it's the fist.

If America had Swedish Healthcare System, America could've done a soft lockdown, and the economy, along with the lowest unemployment rate and a genuinely thriving stock market, not one pumped through the Fed's liquidity, would've kept on chugging. But most of America's corporate journalists blame everything else. Here's Adam Ruins Everything talking about why hospitals are expensive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8

We can't have regularly priced prescription drugs either, due to tariffs and patent trolling, funny how Democrats forget about bashing the latter, and Republicans the former, when it comes to medicine. Insane medial payouts? There's been an accident where a lady was rear ended at the whopping speed of 15 miles an hour, and claimed over $500,000, mostly in medical bills. She got it from the jury. No limits on medical extortion, excuse me, litigation, no sir, this is America! With those type of suits, can you imagine how high the insurance of doctors will be?

Medical school bills? We've got 'em! Our medical schools are the most expensive, meaning that the doctors will pass their medical school costs to you as part of the bill. I never quite understood how homeowners associations managed a 5% mortgage rate for the average consumers, while medical school was set at 6%, until I realized that lobbyists were massively involved. Hospital regulations? Galore! Who pays for that? The consumer! Ambulances? Let's privatize them, and charge people at least $1,000 for a 15 minute ride to the hospital.

The real reason that the initial lockdown happened, is because our bold leadership in both parties pissed its pants at the mere possibility of hospital capacity overload, that would expose their golden goose - the US healthcare system - as a corrupt, money grabbing enterprise. And it was the lockdown that caused the financial crisis of today. In America, over half of the population own a home, and at least 75% want to own a home. Our home ownership system works. It's the other bullshit that's constantly dragging it down.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/cha ... unt-health

Scroll down to the graphs and tables. But sure, let's blame the blood for the fist's mistakes.

[Shofercia]

Assuming the 28 million are made homeless, this could be a great boon for the formation of paramilitaries. The times will perhaps become more interesting once again. One half can form the Red Front while the other half might be a Sturmabteilung equivalent. I know which faction I'd back. There are at least some revolutionaries who're willing to not let an opportunity like this pass.

Sai, do you know how paramilitaries actually work? I'm asking, because "scared homeless guy with zero confidence who never shot a gun" is probably not the ideal recruit, in spite of your thoughts on the matter.

[Grimmsland]

This is just the normal operation of capitalism. If you aren't generating enough of a profit for your landlord, then out on the street you go. This is how the housing market is meant to work. A crisis? This is the system working as intended. The scale might be larger than usual, but this is a feature, not a bug.

I mean, can you imagine a world where anyone can just walk up to you and take anything. He is hungry so he just takes from your fridge. He is tired so he just sleeps in your bed. What are you to eat and where are you to sleep? Well go find someplace else. Take from someone else. Or worse yet live in some sort of communal hive. That literally sounds like hell to me.

When people talk about abolishing private property, they generally draw a distinction between private and personal property. Personal property is, obviously enough, stuff that you use personally. Your house, your fridge, your bed, your toothbrush. Private property is stuff that you can't use yourself, stuff that the whole community needs to use. Farmland, factories, roadways. When people say they want to abolish private property, they want to abolish private ownership of things like that. They want to make it so that things the whole community needs to use are owned by the whole community, and thus will be used to benefit the whole community.

And, relevantly, they want to abolish privatisation of personal property. Your house, under capitalism, may not actually belong to you. It may belong to a landlord, to whom you must pay rent, or it may belong to you in name only and the bank can come along and take it if you start missing mortgage payments. People who want to abolish private property want your house to belong to you and whoever else you may live with and no one else. They want landlords and banks to have no claim on your house, no power to tell you how you must live, and no power to evict you.

I do not understand the mentality of people who actually believe they "own" their land/house, at least in the U.S. anyway. They sure are confidant that they will always be able to pay those property taxes which is essentially a rent that never ends. "I paid off my house and own it" .. err no , you do not. They also seem to have great confidence that their dollar will never plummet by a crash or inflation or whatever. Perhaps I'm overly pessimistic about money and markets etc but I doubt it. I read recently that there remains a law on the books in Norway of ancestral land. No property taxes required in order to keep it or pass it own to their descendants. I forget the name it offhand and do not feel like looking it up at the moment but it goes back to ancient Germanic law. That's about the closest I've ever seen to actually owning land. I don't know how it is in many other places but in USA you do not EVER own land. However .. all this always comes back to no matter what government or laws or rights you might have today they can vanish tomorrow through sheer force by whatever means. Might makes right. Maybe not morally but definitely reality.

I'm in total agreement with anything outside your personal living space and personal items being "public". My ideal (in modern civilization) would be a national form of socialism. My actual ideal would be pre-civilization/pre-agricultural tribalism. Whether in the dark forests of ancient Scandinavia or out in the steeps of central/NW Asia living nomadically. Primitivism, I guess. *knocks you(not YOU, but "you" lol) on head with club* or *pewpew arrows*.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

You say that as if the US system is an unchangeable constant which all Americans just have to accept and work with. That is, of course, not true - systems can be changed.

Society can avoid having to deal with immoral landlords by having the State own the housing, for instance. While eventual change is not helpful in resolving a crisis like this one, it will help in ensuring that such things do not happen again. It can even be done gradually - charge a hefty tax on property to be nationalised and use the revenue from that tax to buy that property.

And who will manage it? You think owning a house in a First World country as interconnected as the US is easy? The state lets people live free on Historic Property as long as they manage it, and pay for its upkeep, so the state can't manage shit. The Democrats and Republicans can't even figure out how to do a proper rent and mortgage freeze.

This crisis arose because America's Healthcare System is expensive and inefficient, not because America's Property Management System is bad; it's not. ...

You'll have to explain that a bit more. You're essentially dismissing it as "not as big a problem as health care, therefore let's hear no more about house prices or rent" and I've snipped the rest out. Housing affordability and what government is doing about it, are the thread subject.

[CoraSpia]

So either the government hands out lots of free money (not actually free), or they allow people who rent to not pay their rent, seemingly forgetting the fact that most landlords aren't massive billion-dollar enterprises and are actually families who own 1 or 2 rental properties, who will end up fucked.

Or states just let people work.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

So either the government hands out lots of free money (not actually free), or they allow people who rent to not pay their rent, seemingly forgetting the fact that most landlords aren't massive billion-dollar enterprises and are actually families who own 1 or 2 rental properties, who will end up fucked.

Having to do without their usual income. You don't think with 1 or 2 extra houses, they might have other assets they could live off?

Or states just let people work.

The people who want to work, aren't the people most likely to die. One person's rights sometimes conflict with another's.

[CoraSpia]

So either the government hands out lots of free money (not actually free), or they allow people who rent to not pay their rent, seemingly forgetting the fact that most landlords aren't massive billion-dollar enterprises and are actually families who own 1 or 2 rental properties, who will end up fucked.

Having to do without their usual income. You don't think with 1 or 2 extra houses, they might have other assets they could live off?

Or states just let people work.

The people who want to work, aren't the people most likely to die. One person's rights sometimes conflict with another's.

Why should they have to sell assets because someone is being selfish and refusing to honour a contract they signed up to?

Also, you don't have the right to ruin someones life just for the benefit of your own health.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Having to do without their usual income. You don't think with 1 or 2 extra houses, they might have other assets they could live off?



The people who want to work, aren't the people most likely to die. One person's rights sometimes conflict with another's.

Why should they have to sell assets because someone is being selfish and refusing to honour a contract they signed up to?

Also, you don't have the right to ruin someones life just for the benefit of your own health.

1. Because they can. The tenant has probably had to give up their income (job) so why shouldn't the landlord give up theirs?

2. Depriving someone of their income (providing they still have a home and enough for food) is not "ruining their life" ... and what kind of twisted idea of rights do you have where the "right" to keep getting rent ranks above the right to avoid preventable death?

I have never said one outright trumps the other. There's a balance government should strike, between economic hardship but with maximum lives saved, and no economic hardship but with maximum lives lost. In my opinion it should be tilted to favor lives over property ... please do not accuse me of supporting the diametric opposite of what you're saying. I'm not such a fool.

[San Lumen]

Having to do without their usual income. You don't think with 1 or 2 extra houses, they might have other assets they could live off?



The people who want to work, aren't the people most likely to die. One person's rights sometimes conflict with another's.

Why should they have to sell assets because someone is being selfish and refusing to honour a contract they signed up to?

Also, you don't have the right to ruin someones life just for the benefit of your own health.

This isn’t about not paying rent. It was suspended by the government for several months and now many landlords are demanding back payments and since their tenants don’t have the money they are starting eviction. How our moronic leaders didn’t think this would be the outcome is beyond me. None of this was thought through whatsoever

[Saiwania]

Sai, do you know how paramilitaries actually work? I'm asking, because "scared homeless guy with zero confidence who never shot a gun" is probably not the ideal recruit, in spite of your thoughts on the matter.

To be fair, the SA wasn't so great either; which is why Hitler double crossed them in favor of the Wehrmacht and SS when the time for a decision came. I don't believe it to be likely that all 2 million members (at its peak) had Freikorps or military backgrounds. Some got in because they were able to act as goons or useful idiots.

What truly matters is the pool of manpower that can be turned. If only 1% were actually useful, that is still 280,000 that can be mobilized for various purposes. Someone is going to be willing to train them or get them the equipment needed to forment revolution, but only if the existing government is super unpopular. Which both major parties are in the US to a large extent, if the push for neoliberalism continues and if the economy never recovers in time.

[Ifreann]

Sai, do you know how paramilitaries actually work? I'm asking, because "scared homeless guy with zero confidence who never shot a gun" is probably not the ideal recruit, in spite of your thoughts on the matter.

To be fair, the SA wasn't so great either; which is why Hitler double crossed them in favor of the Wehrmacht and SS when the time for a decision came. I don't believe it to be likely that all 2 million members (at its peak) had Freikorps or military backgrounds. Some got in because they were able to act as goons or useful idiots.

What truly matters is the pool of manpower that can be turned. If only 1% were actually useful, that is still 280,000 that can be mobilized for various purposes. Someone is going to be willing to train them or get them the equipment needed to forment revolution, but only if the existing government is super unpopular. Which both major parties are in the US to a large extent, if the push for neoliberalism continues and if the economy never recovers in time.

America's fascists can't even manage to organise public rallies any more. They're not going to foment a revolution.

[Saiwania]

Not all renting is passive income however. It's only the huge landlords that get to do that. A small landlord that has maybe an apartment or two very much has to work to keep these in a livable state, make sure the people living there don't do any damage etc. It's very much a full time job. Its only when you have so many that the income is so large you can farm these jobs out to a firm you own that your income becomes passive.

Why shouldn't passive income be allowed, if time is finite and perhaps more valuable than money on that basis? It is probably not worth someone's time to personally visit every property they own daily if they're beyond a certain scale. If they're paying other people to micromanage some of it for them, what is the problem?

If anything, it is providing for jobs to be had for some people if there is work that needs doing. The reason why most business owners don't do the work themselves is because they either can't or don't have enough time to complete all of it and hence, have to have other people trade their time for money, in order to free up time for themselves to do higher level or other stuff.

Nearly all businesses seem to outsource tasks to other people (to some extent) because it is a better and more efficient way of doing things.

[Grenartia]

The entire "profession" of landlordery (I don't care if that's not a word, it is now) is an undeniable and unjustifiable drain on the working class. Landlords should not exist, and any society that does not consider housing a basic human right is doomed to failure.

I don't think that landlordery is a word, but landlording is a word.

I agree that landlords should not exist, however I am sympathetic to people who live in their homes and rent out part of the home to cover some of the bills, as I know many of these people and they do so because of sudden loss of income from developing disabilities or losing a loved one and their income.

As am I, tbh.

As many socialists have said: profit, interest, and rent are all theft, if someone did not produce the value from their own labor then someone else produced that value and they took it.

Billionaires and landlords both should not exist.

Precisely!