NationStates

Purpelia wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:But airports are more convenient for the suburbanite.

What is the difference between driving to an airport and driving to a railroad station? They are pretty much the same except for what happens after you get there.

Even then as living and working patterns shift to suburbs a centralized rail station might lack convenience.

Which is why you build public transport to and from it. I mean it's not like these are things no country has ever had to deal with before.

Airports tend to be in the suburbs.

Train stations tend to be in urban centers.

How shocking that the people who benefit most from the public being kept under control think it a wise investment to fund the organisation who enforce that control. Even more shocking that they do this through private donations rather than paying their taxes, thus avoiding any possibility of democratic accountability.

SD_Film Artists wrote:As long as the donation is transparent and they're not trying to gain any special treatment (ie making a de facto corporate police force) I don't see the problem. It could be read as- 'Helpful company generously donates money back into the community'.

Big Oil

I've always found it weird how America likes to demonise large industries with 'Big [Something]' while at the same time creating the hyper-capitalist environment which allows said companies to exist. It's like America is full of masochists..

What's weird about it? The people criticizing "Big Oil" most likely aren't the ones who are responsible for creating said hyper-capitalist environment.

Greed and Death wrote:

Purpelia wrote:What is the difference between driving to an airport and driving to a railroad station? They are pretty much the same except for what happens after you get there.


Which is why you build public transport to and from it. I mean it's not like these are things no country has ever had to deal with before.

Airports tend to be in the suburbs.

Train stations tend to be in urban centers.

There is literally no reason why you couldn't put a train station at literally any point along the rails. It's simple. You just put a concrete slab either side of the rails for people to stand on while waiting. Maybe a bench or two.

Alcala-Cordel wrote:

Purpelia wrote:That's what you get when you allow business to become so huge that they become richer than some countries.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Many megacorporations spend massive amounts of money astroturfing, lobbying, and damaging the environment with the wealth that rightfully belongs to their workers.

Nonsense. The Wealth rightfully belongs to them.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Alcala-Cordel wrote:And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Many megacorporations spend massive amounts of money astroturfing, lobbying, and damaging the environment with the wealth that rightfully belongs to their workers.

Nonsense. The Wealth rightfully belongs to them.

Fake news.

See. This is why we need to stop using fossil fuels, because the companies that sell it are money-grubbing, anti-environmentalists that don't care that they're business is destroying the planet as long as it turns a profit! Or am I getting too off topic? In any case, they deserve to be shut down.

Ifreann wrote:

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Nonsense. The Wealth rightfully belongs to them.

Fake news.

No. Fake news is when I blame secret communists for the way Organic produce spoils faster.

I do not see too much of a problem, provided that the private corporations do not stick their noses in too far.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Fake news.

No. Fake news is when I blame secret communists for the way Organic produce spoils faster.

"Organic", when in reference to foods, is a marketing term invented by capitalists that doesn't necessarily mean anything beyond "Please pay a premium for these cabbages", so yes, it would be fake news to blame communists for anything related to that.

Greed and Death wrote:

Purpelia wrote:They would be a decent replacement for a lot of your internal air travel though. And regular commuter trains could pick up a lot of the rest.

But airports are more convenient for the suburbanite.
It makes far more sense to reduce our carbon foot print by having our rail focused principally on freight.

The only places a bullet train works is the NE corridor, The Texas Triangle, and the West Coast.

Even then as living and working patterns shift to suburbs a centralized rail station might lack convenience.

There’s a few more areas where they would work. The Great Lakes region, Florida, and the Atlanta-Charlotte corridor

Purpelia wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:
Airports tend to be in the suburbs.

Train stations tend to be in urban centers.

There is literally no reason why you couldn't put a train station at literally any point along the rails. It's simple. You just put a concrete slab either side of the rails for people to stand on while waiting. Maybe a bench or two.

Is it really high speed rail if it has to meander through the burbs for an hour before getting to speed ?

Greed and Death wrote:

Purpelia wrote:There is literally no reason why you couldn't put a train station at literally any point along the rails. It's simple. You just put a concrete slab either side of the rails for people to stand on while waiting. Maybe a bench or two.

Is it really high speed rail if it has to meander through the burbs for an hour before getting to speed ?

That’s when you break out the bulldozers

Purpelia wrote:

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Being a major player in the oil industry requires some big assets like refineries, pipelines or oil tankers. Refineries in particular can't be effectively down-scaled, also they have complex inputs and outputs that reward vertical integration (suppliers and markets). I'm not sure it would all be possible if government broke the oil companies up into "baby oils" but I am quite sure the price of fuel would be higher.

Which is why vital resource industries should be nationalized. See Norway for an example.

Decades ago, the private oil companies use to control 85% of the worlds oil. But today, the worlds private oil companies only control 6% of the worlds oil. About 88% of the worlds oil is under state control of various nations.

Read - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Oil

Thermodolia wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:
Is it really high speed rail if it has to meander through the burbs for an hour before getting to speed ?

That’s when you break out the bulldozers

Much like with the interstates those will primarily be minority homes bulldozed.

Greed and Death wrote:

Purpelia wrote:There is literally no reason why you couldn't put a train station at literally any point along the rails. It's simple. You just put a concrete slab either side of the rails for people to stand on while waiting. Maybe a bench or two.

Is it really high speed rail if it has to meander through the burbs for an hour before getting to speed ?

When is the last time you had aircraft landing there either?

The suburban population should be served by commuter trains that travel at car/bus speeds. Only without traffic to slow them down. High speed rail is what you put between big cities as a substitute for intercity buss and air travel.

Ifreann wrote:

The Emerald Legion wrote:
No. Fake news is when I blame secret communists for the way Organic produce spoils faster.

"Organic", when in reference to foods, is a marketing term invented by capitalists that doesn't necessarily mean anything beyond "Please pay a premium for these cabbages", so yes, it would be fake news to blame communists for anything related to that.

Precisely.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Ifreann wrote:"Organic", when in reference to foods, is a marketing term invented by capitalists that doesn't necessarily mean anything beyond "Please pay a premium for these cabbages", so yes, it would be fake news to blame communists for anything related to that.

Precisely.

But it is not fake news to recognise that it is workers who generate the wealth.

Is the US slowly beocming a "Corporate Police State"?

Purpelia wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:
Is it really high speed rail if it has to meander through the burbs for an hour before getting to speed ?

When is the last time you had aircraft landing there either?

The suburban population should be served by commuter trains that travel at car/bus speeds. Only without traffic to slow them down. High speed rail is what you put between big cities as a substitute for intercity buss and air travel.

First of all this OP is a mess. What are we discussing here? Energy policy? Transportation? Cool topics, but then why bring up police?

The topic is not clear. Some oil companies fund some pro police groups (among lots of other groups) so is lobbying the topic? Political contributions?

But if we are taking transport outside a few corridors intercity high speed rail is not very well suited for most of the US. We have a much lower population density, very different population distribution and very different ways of living than much of Europe or Eastern China. Also the terrain is often difficult.

What works one place does not work well in another.

We do need to restore commenter rail to cities that never restored it, but although they look cooler the long range “bullet trains” are much less important to have here than commuter rail.
Commuter rail should be the emphasis.

Intercity rail will never be able to compete with flying for coast to coast travel for example. Even the fastest trains are still way too slow.

Also I think some people miss the fact the US has the world’s BEST freight rail.
Moving freight by rail reduces demand for using fuel for freight movement, thus using less fuel.
Moving more people by rail but less freight by rail like Europe is not necessarily better.

And the two do not work great together. Most long range rail lines here are used by absurdly huge freight trains over 3km/2 miles long. Trying to work high speed passenger trains around them is not that easy. If the rails are being used by freight, there is less room for passenger trains. And if used by passenger trains more, there is less room for freight trains.

It should be noted the Federal Railway Administration has designated out “high speed rail corridors” that might be viable, and should get some more investment, but these cover certain regions, there is none running coast to coast again given it simply is not very practical. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-sp ... 9-2009.JPG
Although I do think we need improved funding to increase the availability of bypass tracks, reduce at grade crossings, improve tunnels and bridges, and create a better comprehensive automated signaling and control system on these routes, really intercity rail is not what we really need.

What we instead need is more commuter rail and more importantly to improve our electrical production via nuclear. Our long range railways do what the are supposed to do very well, that is move freight.

The money it would cost to build a Europe or Chinese style rail network is simply better spent on nuclear reactors.

Ifreann wrote:

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Precisely.

But it is not fake news to recognise that it is workers who generate the wealth.

Incorrect. Workers do not, on their own, generate wealth.

Nakena wrote:Is the US slowly beocming a "Corporate Police State"?

Always has been. *insert meme*

Nakena wrote:Is the US slowly beocming a "Corporate Police State"?

Been for awhile just being honest about it now.

I for one welcome our overt corporate overlords.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Ifreann wrote:But it is not fake news to recognise that it is workers who generate the wealth.

Incorrect. Workers do not, on their own, generate wealth.

Because the executives can do on their own eh?

Nakena wrote:Is the US slowly beocming a "Corporate Police State"?

Becoming? No.

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The Emerald Legion wrote:

Ifreann wrote:But it is not fake news to recognise that it is workers who generate the wealth.

Incorrect. Workers do not, on their own, generate wealth.

Of course they do. No amount of investment will turn a tree into furniture, it takes work.