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Oil Giants Help Fund Powerful Police Groups in Top US Cities

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24374
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:51 pm

Picairn wrote:
Plzen wrote:Private property began when some entrepreneurial strongman figured out that he can just wall off some natural resource, which was formally held in common, and use violence to enforce his right to dictate how it is used.

Since property and ownership are arbitrary concepts with no basis in objectively measurable reality anyways, nobody deserves to own anything and the rightful distribution of property is whatever distribution creates the socially optimal results. Of course the definition of "socially optimal" varies with ideology, but this laissez-faire idea that there exists such a thing as the natural distribution of property is really strange, if you think about it.

"Tragedy of the Commons" is proudly standing in your way. :)

...That didn't actually address his points.
Spanish-American Atheist.
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Ni dios, ni rey, ni patria, ni amo


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

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Alcala-Cordel
Diplomat
 
Posts: 752
Founded: Dec 16, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:24 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:Nobody generates wealth. Wealth exists. You simply shift it around, or sometimes discover more.

Wealth doesn't exist beyond the mental concept we have of it. For example, imagine two rooms, each with one person permanently sealed inside it. Both rooms are identical, only one of the rooms is filled with valuables. The valuables wouldn't help the person trapped with them survive because they're unable to exchange them for necessities.
Last edited by Alcala-Cordel on Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Black Forrest
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41775
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:35 am

Bear Stearns wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Because the executives can do on their own eh?


Yes, through strategic decisions. They make decisions regarding capital expenditures, mergers & acquisitions, leverage, and cash flows. All of these things contribute far more to the actual value of a company than the output of a single worker.


Yes they do. From the workers who gathered the data for them to make those decisions.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
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Bear Stearns
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9111
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:37 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
Yes, through strategic decisions. They make decisions regarding capital expenditures, mergers & acquisitions, leverage, and cash flows. All of these things contribute far more to the actual value of a company than the output of a single worker.


Yes they do. From the workers who gathered the data for them to make those decisions.


The workers who usually gather that data are white collar professionals making over six figures. Not really what people think of when they think of "labor". Unionize the financial analysts, I guess.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 66027
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:44 pm

SD_Film Artists wrote:As long as the donation is transparent and they're not trying to gain any special treatment (ie making a de facto corporate police force) I don't see the problem. It could be read as- 'Helpful company generously donates money back into the community'.

Big Oil


I've always found it weird how America likes to demonise large industries with 'Big [Something]' while at the same time creating the hyper-capitalist environment which allows said companies to exist. It's like America is full of masochists..

You think that's weird? I've gotten Republican emails complaining about 'Big Labor' or 'Big Green' when talking about unions or environmentalists.
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The DNC is better than the GOP like Manslaughter is better than Murder: Seems like a lesser crime, but the victim can't tell the difference.

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The Black Forrest
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41775
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:21 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Yes they do. From the workers who gathered the data for them to make those decisions.


The workers who usually gather that data are white collar professionals making over six figures. Not really what people think of when they think of "labor". Unionize the financial analysts, I guess.


They are still workers. Just salaried versus hourly. Even then they usually have underlings who do the legwork for the data.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Cetacea
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6103
Founded: Apr 27, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Cetacea » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:28 pm

and do I understand this right Police Foundations are private organisations that fund Police Operations via corporate sponsors??

OMG so OCP isnt fictional? When do we see Robocop out on the streets?

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