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Oil Giants Help Fund Powerful Police Groups in Top US Cities

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Bear Stearns
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Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:30 pm

Rusozak wrote:You know you have to ask yourself "Are we the baddies?" when oil giants chip in to fund your endeavors.

Giant commodities firm's underpin most of our society. It'd be surprising if someone in the United States of a net worth of at least $1,000,000 wasn't tied to various nefarious industries, such as oil & gas, pharmaceuticals, finance, and mining.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Rusozak
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Rusozak » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:50 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Rusozak wrote:You know you have to ask yourself "Are we the baddies?" when oil giants chip in to fund your endeavors.

Giant commodities firm's underpin most of our society. It'd be surprising if someone in the United States of a net worth of at least $1,000,000 wasn't tied to various nefarious industries, such as oil & gas, pharmaceuticals, finance, and mining.


Well yeah, that kind of goes without saying. I'm a firm believer that one can't be rich and powerful without stepping on others. After all, one doesn't become rich by being generous.
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Bear Stearns
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:54 pm

Rusozak wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Giant commodities firm's underpin most of our society. It'd be surprising if someone in the United States of a net worth of at least $1,000,000 wasn't tied to various nefarious industries, such as oil & gas, pharmaceuticals, finance, and mining.


Well yeah, that kind of goes without saying. I'm a firm believer that one can't be rich and powerful without stepping on others. After all, one doesn't become rich by being generous.


That's not really what I said either. I just said that people with money are going to be connected to those industries in some way or another. A wealthy banker indirectly profits off his clients who might be pharmaceutical or oil & gas companies. A pharmaceutical executive's wealth indirectly comes from the chemical and mining industries who provide him with raw materials, a retailer of luxury goods relies on mining companies for jewels and his customers could include wealthy bankers, and so on and so forth. Doesn't mean that these people are ruthless tycoons who are out to kill each other.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Plzen
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Postby Plzen » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:56 pm

Rusozak wrote:Well yeah, that kind of goes without saying. I'm a firm believer that one can't be rich and powerful without stepping on others. After all, one doesn't become rich by being generous.

This really is the key point, and it ties right in with what is often called the Iron Law of Bureaucracy. Why are all of our leaders seemingly disinterested in solving any real problems?

Selection bias.

The people who are willing to dismantle the very same institutions and systems that lift them up, unsurprisingly, tend to not make it very far up.
Last edited by Plzen on Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Greed and Death
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:57 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Rusozak wrote:You know you have to ask yourself "Are we the baddies?" when oil giants chip in to fund your endeavors.

Giant commodities firm's underpin most of our society. It'd be surprising if someone in the United States of a net worth of at least $1,000,000 wasn't tied to various nefarious industries, such as oil & gas, pharmaceuticals, finance, and mining.



Those aren't Nefarious industries.
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Bear Stearns
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:01 pm

Greed and Death wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Giant commodities firm's underpin most of our society. It'd be surprising if someone in the United States of a net worth of at least $1,000,000 wasn't tied to various nefarious industries, such as oil & gas, pharmaceuticals, finance, and mining.



Those aren't Nefarious industries.


No shit, but they're what people default to when thinking of "evil" corporations. Although I'd argue that media/entertainment, tech, and telecom companies are even worse. Not only are they the driving force behind a consolidation of information and censorship, they end to be heavily populated with pedophiles and sexual predators (esp. media/entertainment).
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Greed and Death
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:14 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:

Those aren't Nefarious industries.


No shit, but they're what people default to when thinking of "evil" corporations. Although I'd argue that media/entertainment, tech, and telecom companies are even worse. Not only are they the driving force behind a consolidation of information and censorship, they end to be heavily populated with pedophiles and sexual predators (esp. media/entertainment).



I went to look for stats to disprove you. Instead I found.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/peo ... 083964001/

94% of women in Hollywood have been the victim of sexual misconduct.
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Alcala-Cordel
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:15 pm

Greed and Death wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Giant commodities firm's underpin most of our society. It'd be surprising if someone in the United States of a net worth of at least $1,000,000 wasn't tied to various nefarious industries, such as oil & gas, pharmaceuticals, finance, and mining.



Those aren't Nefarious industries.

Every industry run by the bourgeoisie is nefarious.
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:16 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:

Those aren't Nefarious industries.

Every industry run by the bourgeoisie is nefarious.

Now you are delusional.
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Bear Stearns
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:19 pm

Greed and Death wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
No shit, but they're what people default to when thinking of "evil" corporations. Although I'd argue that media/entertainment, tech, and telecom companies are even worse. Not only are they the driving force behind a consolidation of information and censorship, they end to be heavily populated with pedophiles and sexual predators (esp. media/entertainment).



I went to look for stats to disprove you. Instead I found.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/peo ... 083964001/

94% of women in Hollywood have been the victim of sexual misconduct.


Yeah, it's a cesspool that should be excised from society.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Bear Stearns
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:19 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:

Those aren't Nefarious industries.

Every industry run by the bourgeoisie is nefarious.


that leaves state-owned enterprises in third world countries
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Alcala-Cordel
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:20 pm

Greed and Death wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:Every industry run by the bourgeoisie is nefarious.

Now you are delusional.

Any individual or institution that leeches off the value of the labor of the proletariat is nefarious.
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:22 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:Now you are delusional.

Any individual or institution that leeches off the value of the labor of the proletariat is nefarious.


As though management and capital collection are not a contribution to the value of finished product or service.
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Bear Stearns
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:23 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:Now you are delusional.

Any individual or institution that leeches off the value of the labor of the proletariat is nefarious.


who is doing the leeching and how are they doing it
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Alcala-Cordel
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:24 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:Every industry run by the bourgeoisie is nefarious.


that leaves state-owned enterprises in third world countries

Pretty much, but many of those are dominated by greed as well. It also leaves some worker-run co-ops and a few self-employed people.

Bear Stearns wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:Any individual or institution that leeches off the value of the labor of the proletariat is nefarious.


who is doing the leeching and how are they doing it

The modern class structure in capitalist society revolves around socioeconomics, with the upper class consisting of CEOs, investors, and the like. These people own shares in companies, which convert of the value of their workers' labor into commodities and currency. The vast majority of this labor value is never received by the workers, but instead by the bourgeoisie at the very top of the company. In economic terms, this is known as "profit". Other examples of bourgeoisie parasitism include
-Exploiting people by forcing them to pay for land and necessities
-Much of modern trade
-environmental destruction
-etc.

This is an extremely simplified version of the capitalist system of parasitism, for the full story read Das Kapital.
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Major-Tom
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:52 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:

Those aren't Nefarious industries.

Every industry run by the bourgeoisie is nefarious.


So, we getting bold and saying all US corporations are malicious? FFS.

Oil giants are often bad actors, and what they're doing here is no surprise. But it's a leap to go from "curtail the power of the oil lobby and corporate donations" to "all corporations are evil." The truth is never found in extreme simplicity.
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Alcala-Cordel
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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:59 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:Every industry run by the bourgeoisie is nefarious.


So, we getting bold and saying all US corporations are malicious? FFS.

Oil giants are often bad actors, and what they're doing here is no surprise. But it's a leap to go from "curtail the power of the oil lobby and corporate donations" to "all corporations are evil." The truth is never found in extreme simplicity.

I'm not saying all corporations are evil because of oil companies, I'm saying it because of their parasitic nature in general.
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Nouveau Yathrib
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Nouveau Yathrib » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:35 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Rah wrote:I feel as if I am in the 1890’s reading this thread, with its proto communist jargon and clearly unimplementable solutions. The US is a huge place with a huge economy. That will never change regardless of government style. I agree we should shift off petrochemical focus by using the existing petrochemical dtructure to support real world, tested Electrical generation, to move to electric cars. Does China or Russia have an extensive rail system outside the major cities? No. They are/“were” both Communisms....

Its all due to scale. Europe can do it because by comparison it is small Space wise but high in population density compared to Russia and US.. You dont see much rail inCanada either, outside a few cities. As for cops, I received a call to order 10 police cruisers yesterday (I work in manufacturing). The policeman currently drives a 1991 Crown Victoria. Getting hem into cleaner and safer vehicles makes the public safer as well you know. The people and all that. I see this as a corporation being socially responsible, not social engineering.


Actually China has quite a lot of rail. Also a very high population, you'd have done better to put China in with Europe as places rail can work.

I don't agree that rail isn't worthwhile in the US. There is a lot of existing rail that is in terrible condition and therefore slow, made worse by the cost-cutting of using a lot of level crossings (which slow traffic more than trains, but are in any case dangerous). But where the greatest contribution could be made would be new fast rail, to reduce the use of air travel.

What do you mean "tested Electrical generation"? Nuclear is good, but has a long lead time. All kinds of renewables have long lead time too, for a different reason: up-front cost. There's just not enough investment capital in the sector at one time, but this sounds like work for the Federal government to me. Or perhaps you meant gas or coal generation ...


Why doesn't the United States have high speed trains like Europe and Asia?

However, I am also a student of Economics and I am fully aware of the realities that make the economics of high-speed rail far less attractive than they are in Europe and East Asia. These include:

    * Population density or lack thereof
    * Our unique model of urban and suburban development
    * The strength of our property rights
    * Car culture, or America's lingering obsession with the automobile
    * The lasting power of network effects
    * An existing rail network is geared towards long-haul commercial freight traffic
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Nouveau Yathrib
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Postby Nouveau Yathrib » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:45 pm

Shofercia wrote:
Plzen wrote:Would that be such a bad thing?

If gasoline jumped to, oh, 7~8€ a gallon - like in the Netherlands - I have to imagine that the US would abruptly start seriously rethinking everything from consumer delivery logistics to urban planning and accomplish everything that 40 years of environmentalist campaigning failed at doing.


If we had a decent system of public transportation and less parking lots, we'd do that. But instead of designing a decent system, Sacramento's building high speed rail... to connect the few areas already covered by transportation. When our gas price goes up, it's the poor who are fucked. Without public transport, and with everything so far apart in LA, and so expensive to bring closer together, what're the options?


Build/maintain better public transportation in the city first :unsure:
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Post War America
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Postby Post War America » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:14 pm

Nouveau Yathrib wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
If we had a decent system of public transportation and less parking lots, we'd do that. But instead of designing a decent system, Sacramento's building high speed rail... to connect the few areas already covered by transportation. When our gas price goes up, it's the poor who are fucked. Without public transport, and with everything so far apart in LA, and so expensive to bring closer together, what're the options?


Build/maintain better public transportation in the city first :unsure:


While I would definitely be in favor of that there is a concerted political effort on the party of NIMBY types, anti-gentrification types, and of course the astroturfed petrochemical backed types to half the expansion of the public transit system, using fears that public transit spikes rent prices.
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:31 pm

Purpelia wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:
Except that rail doesn't go to every town, and even if it did it still has the inherent problems of outsourcing your transport to a private company which may have a sucky timetable if they're not on strike. I'll stick with my motorcycle thanks.

See how you answered your own complaint there.


Yeaah...you see in Britain* we have this great system which takes the worst parts of a privatised system and then the worst parts of a public system and then mush them together to create the national rail network.

Also, do public-sector employees not go on strike where you are?

*yes I know it's a US-focused thread.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:32 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I know how trees work, I don't understand why you're telling me I don't have seeds or soil or time.


They do regularly fall in the woods, though they are rarely heard doing so.


Seeds occur in nature without human intervention. Kinda how plants have reproduced for millions of years.


But the seeds don't belong to you. Neither do the trees. You have to purchase them from their owner. Likewise, if you live in a desert, there are no trees, and someone must be motivated to bring lumber to where you are. Or you must go to where the materials to make your work valuable are.

The seeds occur in nature. Workers transform the resulting trees into lumber, and the lumber into all kinds of things.

At what stage of this process is there any use for someone who just owns seeds? What value does their ownership add? From where does their ownership arise? Why should it be respected?
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Postby Picairn » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:30 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:Nobody generates wealth. Wealth exists. You simply shift it around, or sometimes discover more.


That's gold.

This quote will go straight to my sig.
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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:34 pm

Plzen wrote:Private property began when some entrepreneurial strongman figured out that he can just wall off some natural resource, which was formally held in common, and use violence to enforce his right to dictate how it is used.

Since property and ownership are arbitrary concepts with no basis in objectively measurable reality anyways, nobody deserves to own anything and the rightful distribution of property is whatever distribution creates the socially optimal results. Of course the definition of "socially optimal" varies with ideology, but this laissez-faire idea that there exists such a thing as the natural distribution of property is really strange, if you think about it.

"Tragedy of the Commons" is proudly standing in your way. :)
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Vivian James wrote:It is sophistry to try to redefine your opponent's arguments. It might feel good...

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Alcala-Cordel
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:39 pm

Nouveau Yathrib wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
If we had a decent system of public transportation and less parking lots, we'd do that. But instead of designing a decent system, Sacramento's building high speed rail... to connect the few areas already covered by transportation. When our gas price goes up, it's the poor who are fucked. Without public transport, and with everything so far apart in LA, and so expensive to bring closer together, what're the options?


Build/maintain better public transportation in the city first :unsure:

Even if it is abrupt, it would still be a net good.
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