Poland to withdraw from Istanbul Convention

[Salus Maior]

As someone who lives in poland, I hope poland will cease to exist as soon as possible

That's hardly necessary.

[Christian Confederation]

This is a pretty big thing. Poland’s PiS (Law and Justice Party) started with eroding LGBTQ+ rights, and now moving onto women’s rights, ever so slowly. One can only wonder what’s next in Duda’s plans for Poland. It sounds like Duda is solidifying his sway over Poland’s voters as well.

According to the article, Hungary and Slovakia are looking into the treaty as well. This could signify a slow withdrawal of a few signatories.

’Alarm' at Poland's plan to leave treaty protecting women
54 MINUTES AGO
AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
STRASBOURG, FRANCE

---

The Istanbul Convention is the world's first binding instrument to prevent and combat violence against women

The Council of Europe said Sunday, July 26, it is "alarmed" that Poland's right-wing government is moving to withdraw from a landmark international treaty combating violence against women.
Polish Justice Minister Zbigniew Ziobro said on the weekend that on Monday, July 27, he will begin preparing the formal process to withdraw from the Istanbul Convention, the world's first binding instrument to prevent and combat violence against women, from marital rape to female genital mutilation.

A previous centrist Polish government signed the treaty in 2012 and it was ratified in 2015, when Ziobro called it "an invention, a feminist creation aimed at justifying gay ideology".
The treaty was spearheaded by the Council of Europe, the continent's oldest human rights organisation, and its Secretary General Marija Pejcinovic Buric condemned the right-wing Law and Justice (PiS) government's plan to withdraw.

"Leaving the Istanbul Convention would be highly regrettable and a major step backwards in the protection of women against violence in Europe," she said in a statement on Sunday.
"If there are any misconceptions or misunderstandings about the convention, we are ready to clarify them in a constructive dialogue."

Around 2,000 people marched in the Polish capital Warsaw on Friday to protest the government's withdrawal plan, some shouting "stop violence against women".

There was also outrage from several members of the European Parliament, with Iratxe Garcia Perez, the Spanish leader of the Socialist group, calling the decision "disgraceful."
"I stand with Polish citizens taking (to) the streets to demand respect for women's rights," he tweeted.

The leader of the EU parliament's Renew Europe group, former Romanian prime minister Dacian Ciolos, tweeted: "Using the fight against the Istanbul Convention as an instrument to display its conservatism is a new pitiful and pathetic move by some within the PiS government."
Fellow MEP and former Belgian premier Guy Verhofstadt said the decision was "scandalous", adding that "violence is not a traditional value."

The Council of Europe emphasised that the Istanbul Convention's "sole objective" is to combat violence against women and domestic violence.

The treaty does not explicitly mention gay marriage.

But that has not stopped the backlash to it in Hungary and Slovakia, where the parliament rejected the treaty insisting -- without proof -- that it is at odds with the country's constitutional definition of marriage as a heterosexual union.

The Strasbourg-based Council of Europe, which is separate from the European Union, has no binding powers but brings together 47 member states to make recommendations on rights and democracy. – Rappler.com

So what do you think of this move, NSG?

As someone who lives in poland, I hope poland will cease to exist as soon as possible

Shoot up a German Village and somewhere in Kaliningrad and you don't have to wait anymore

[The Reformed American Republic]

You’re missing the point. To downplaying of men as victims of violence in Istanbul is a feature, not a bug. Women cannot be sexist against men because men still hold the power in these countries, and therefore “sexism against men” is nonsensical.

Besides that, most violence visited on men is by other men, and so stopping it can easily be done by men as a group whenever they decide to. No extra law or effort is needed to stop it, as they are doing it to themselves.

Istanbul is a good convention, and it’s focus on women victims is the correct thing to do.

So I see you didn't take a sociology class like I recommended.

Shame, your arguments might've actually had a ground to stand on if that was the case. But I see you're simply content with going on about how x group can't be sexist because of the "Power+Prejudice" model even though that only applies to systematic abuse and not individual abuse.

Sociologists or a group of them are very much like Radfems Inc here. Some elements of sociology are becoming very regressive.

[New haven america]

Marital rape? Did you forgot that in the past before marriage many people were raped for being forced to marry unwanted partners? And in the same time it may have some ties with paid marriages without the consent of the subject. There were also blackmails of killing the relatives of the future bride/spouse if refusing.
There are also things which should have been added in the treaty but weren't in. Sadly.

There's no such thing as "forced marriage" either. Marriages can be arranged by family, but marriages are never forced on anyone. Marriages always require some form of consent in order for it to be valid.

These post are stupid and harmful and you should feel bad for having decided to make them.

[Thermodolia]

Marital rape is essentially an oxymoron. Marriage is a covenant and a signed contract which gives consent to sexual relations between those in the marriage contract. If a man makes a sexual proposition to his wife, and she says "no," that doesn't make the man a rapist. Even if the man were to keep pursuing, he's pursuing his wife who consented to marry him in the first place. The same applies to gay "marriages."

If the concept of marital rape is included in the Istanbul Treaty, I can understand why there would be fierce opposition to it in many countries.

Jesus dude what’s wrong with you?

[Thermodolia]

Oh hey, more straw on the carpet.

Gallo's characterization was actually quite accurate.

So the treaty is bad because it acknowledges the LGBT community exists. And because you don't believe in financial abuse.

That's a rather bad reading of Turtle's post.

Which foreign power do you want it to be conquered by? Germany or Russia?

Plot twist, because this time it's Slovakia! Definitely not Sweden though

Non es France!

[Gormwood]

There's no such thing as "forced marriage" either. Marriages can be arranged by family, but marriages are never forced on anyone. Marriages always require some form of consent in order for it to be valid.

These post are stupid and harmful and you should feel bad for having decided to make them.

All of Warren Jeffs' and David Koresh's child weddings were all consentual and legal, silly!

[Federal Republic Of America And The Cari]

This is a pretty big thing. Poland’s PiS (Law and Justice Party) started with eroding LGBTQ+ rights, and now moving onto women’s rights, ever so slowly. One can only wonder what’s next in Duda’s plans for Poland. It sounds like Duda is solidifying his sway over Poland’s voters as well.

According to the article, Hungary and Slovakia are looking into the treaty as well. This could signify a slow withdrawal of a few signatories.

’Alarm' at Poland's plan to leave treaty protecting women
54 MINUTES AGO
AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
STRASBOURG, FRANCE

---

The Istanbul Convention is the world's first binding instrument to prevent and combat violence against women

The Council of Europe said Sunday, July 26, it is "alarmed" that Poland's right-wing government is moving to withdraw from a landmark international treaty combating violence against women.
Polish Justice Minister Zbigniew Ziobro said on the weekend that on Monday, July 27, he will begin preparing the formal process to withdraw from the Istanbul Convention, the world's first binding instrument to prevent and combat violence against women, from marital rape to female genital mutilation.

A previous centrist Polish government signed the treaty in 2012 and it was ratified in 2015, when Ziobro called it "an invention, a feminist creation aimed at justifying gay ideology".
The treaty was spearheaded by the Council of Europe, the continent's oldest human rights organisation, and its Secretary General Marija Pejcinovic Buric condemned the right-wing Law and Justice (PiS) government's plan to withdraw.

"Leaving the Istanbul Convention would be highly regrettable and a major step backwards in the protection of women against violence in Europe," she said in a statement on Sunday.
"If there are any misconceptions or misunderstandings about the convention, we are ready to clarify them in a constructive dialogue."

Around 2,000 people marched in the Polish capital Warsaw on Friday to protest the government's withdrawal plan, some shouting "stop violence against women".

There was also outrage from several members of the European Parliament, with Iratxe Garcia Perez, the Spanish leader of the Socialist group, calling the decision "disgraceful."
"I stand with Polish citizens taking (to) the streets to demand respect for women's rights," he tweeted.

The leader of the EU parliament's Renew Europe group, former Romanian prime minister Dacian Ciolos, tweeted: "Using the fight against the Istanbul Convention as an instrument to display its conservatism is a new pitiful and pathetic move by some within the PiS government."
Fellow MEP and former Belgian premier Guy Verhofstadt said the decision was "scandalous", adding that "violence is not a traditional value."

The Council of Europe emphasised that the Istanbul Convention's "sole objective" is to combat violence against women and domestic violence.

The treaty does not explicitly mention gay marriage.

But that has not stopped the backlash to it in Hungary and Slovakia, where the parliament rejected the treaty insisting -- without proof -- that it is at odds with the country's constitutional definition of marriage as a heterosexual union.

The Strasbourg-based Council of Europe, which is separate from the European Union, has no binding powers but brings together 47 member states to make recommendations on rights and democracy. – Rappler.com

So what do you think of this move, NSG?

As someone who lives in poland, I hope poland will cease to exist as soon as possible

You wanna be genocided by the Russians and assimilated by the Germans for like the 6th time(INCLUDING THE PARTITIONS)?

[The Free Joy State]

Does the Istanbul treaty have its issues? Yeah. Is it bad that Poland is withdrawing from it, as well as rolling back the rights of LGBTQ people? Also yeah.

Look, it doesn’t take a genius to see that Poland’s going into a phase of extreme social conservatism. It’s not gonna be a nice place to live for anyone who isn’t a straight, white, Christian Polish man very soon.

^ This.

Yes, domestic violence is not gender-specific and the Istanbul Convention should have recognised that. But you only have to look at the recent legislation to tighten already strict abortion laws and rolling back LGBT+ rights in Poland to realise that the withdrawal from the convention is not an egalitarian protest, but a move towards hardline social conservatism.

Poland's withdrawal from the treaty is not something to be welcomed.

[Picairn]

^ This.

Yes, domestic violence happens to both sexes and the Istanbul Convention should have recognised that. But you only have to look at the recent legislation to tighten already strict abortion laws and rolling back LGBT+ rights in Poland to realise that the withdrawal from the convention is not an egalitarian protest, but a move towards hardline social conservatism.

Poland's withdrawal from the treaty is not something to be welcomed.

Also worth noting is that nobody is stopping critics of the Istanbul Treaty to draw up a new one concerning men's rights. I'm sure European leaders will want to hear about it.

[Diahon]

poles gave duda an inch, and now his party will take everything

[Greed and Death]

poles gave duda an inch, and now his party will take everything

What next Polexit ?

[Shofercia]

poles gave duda an inch, and now his party will take everything

What next Polexit ?

That sounds like something a stripper would do.

[Militarist Caxico]

Remind me why Poland, of all countries, is turning itself into a bigoted dictatorship? Didn’t they suffer the most (except for USSR) under such government in the 1940s?

[New haven america]

Remind me why Poland, of all countries, is turning itself into a bigoted dictatorship? Didn’t they suffer the most (except for USSR) under such government in the 1940s?

Because Poland had nothing better to do, I guess.

America and Brazil are doing it so why not join the club.

[Federal Republic Of America And The Cari]

Remind me why Poland, of all countries, is turning itself into a bigoted dictatorship? Didn’t they suffer the most (except for USSR) under such government in the 1940s?

Because Poland had nothing better to do, I guess.

America and Brazil are doing it so why not join the club.

Brazil is doing WAY worse than the US in terms of democratic backsliding, though we are still going through that path
(I'm just saying,boslonaro is possibly not only the worst democratically elected president in the history of modern Brazilian Democracy (which is less than 30 years old,which started after the fall of the military junta)but one of the most authoritarian presidents in the history of liberal democracy)
Citations:
1:https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2020/0409/Democracy-around-the-world-is-down-but-not-out.-Test-case-Brazil
2:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Brazil_since_1985
3:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro

[Panslavicland]

Excellent. I know the governments of Poland and Russia don't often see eye to eye, but I am pleased that Poland is following Russia's lead on restoring traditional values in regards to family and religion.

[Vassenor]

Excellent. I know the governments of Poland and Russia don't often see eye to eye, but I am pleased that Poland is following Russia's lead on restoring traditional values in regards to family and religion.

What's traditional about being able to beat your spouse whenever the mood takes you, and why is that a value worth preserving?

[New haven america]

Excellent. I know the governments of Poland and Russia don't often see eye to eye, but I am pleased that Poland is following Russia's lead on restoring traditional values in regards to family and religion.

1. What's traditional about being able to beat your spouse whenever the mood takes you, 2. and why is that a value worth preserving?

1. That's actually traditional in pretty much everywhere in the world, and only started really getting challenged as a relationship norm in the 1960's in most of the West and is still super common everywhere else.
2. It's not.

[-Astoria-]

Excellent. I know the governments of Poland and Russia don't often see eye to eye, but I am pleased that Poland is following Russia's lead on restoring traditional values in regards to family and religion.

And those "traditional values" are?

[Ostroeuropa]

In isolation this act is good. But the next steps the polish government takes are not likely to be good.

Withdrawing from a treaty that enforces privileged treatment of women is good, because now you have the option to do it right. But I doubt they'll do it right.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Oh hey, more straw on the carpet.

That’s what the convention of Istanbul endorses - that those with greater social privilege and less likely to experience violence need to experience less violence.

IE, white lives matter.

Men suffering more violence I have no problem with. But isn't the treaty concerned with "gender based violence", ie not woman/woman or man/man?

---

Turns out the conservative ruling party is not in favor of dropping the treaty.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pola ... SKCN24R0GL

Given the conservative nature of the treaty’s acceptance of gender normative assumptions regarding domestic violence and violence in general, this doesn’t come as a huge shock.

It’s just the Justice Minister is more conservative than the ruling party at large.

Oh good. What are the odds it was the definition of gender in particular which boiled his kettle?

And not at all the disparate treatment of the genders.

[Vassenor]

Oh hey, more straw on the carpet.

That’s what the convention of Istanbul endorses - that those with greater social privilege and less likely to experience violence need to experience less violence.

IE, white lives matter.

I hear straws being grabbed.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

In isolation this act is good. But the next steps the polish government takes are not likely to be good.

Withdrawing from a treaty that enforces privileged treatment of women is good, because now you have the option to do it right. But I doubt they'll do it right.

Turns out they're not withdrawing. But you shouldn't want them to: doing so would highlight the definition of gender, not the disparate treatment.

Anyone opposed to and protesting about something you don't like, but doing it for the wrong reasons, is an ally you don't want!

[Vassenor]

In isolation this act is good. But the next steps the polish government takes are not likely to be good.

Withdrawing from a treaty that enforces privileged treatment of women is good, because now you have the option to do it right. But I doubt they'll do it right.

And what privileged treatment is being enforced by the convention? With actual citation from the text, please.