Should the death penalty's "appeals process" be scrapped?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

I agree, the prison condition in the US is unacceptable. Is your solution to do away with prisons entirely?

Of course not. But to use prison more sparingly, one may need to threaten punishments that people who do not fear these prison conditions would fear, and make it in their own interest to do something about this.

That makes no sense. Do you labor under the delusion that trial judges aren't told to get it right?

Well, the incentives for as much have not yet been adequate judging by all the false convictions that end in prison rape, let alone executions. If all the money spent on getting it right the second time were instead spent on getting it right the first time, maybe we might have fewer people falsely convicted in the first place.

No, the point of the death penalty is to kill the person.

No really. That's the point of it. It's not about deterrence, it's about elimination.

An ankle bracelet that zaps them for attempting to leave their house would then be for all intents and purposes equivalent to an execution as no one would ever have to deal with them again, other than the occasional deliveryman throwing food through the window. (Scanned for removal of smuggled matches, of course.)

The point was to strike fear into the hearts of would-be criminals, or neither the death penalty nor incarceration would be so common.

Yep, there should be no death penalty at all.

So that leaves behind the question of to what voters "having the death penalty, but doing it by half measures" was designed to pander.

That has nothing to do with appeals, which is what you claim to be the main topic of your thread, but... swell?

Well, what incentive has everyone else to care about prison unless they think they're not going to have as bad a time of it as everyone else? No one knows, before going to prison, whether you'll be better off or worse off than other prisoners. Just because someone admits being falsely convicted could happen to any of us (doubt anyone could deny that this day and age) doesn't mean they'll accept a preponderance of evidence on their status among criminals.

All, however, are equal in death. It's less deniable when you'd be facing that one. And that way even those who delude themselves into thinking they'll not be as bad off as other prisoners now have a reason to care.

[Ethel mermania]

The point of the death penalty is not deterrence. The point of the death penalty is to show societies absolute abhorrence of the crime committed. It is the ultimate sanction society can impose.

So as to the appeals process being stopped? I dont think it should automatic, but if the defendant wants to appeal, he should be allowed too

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

The point of the death penalty is not deterrence. The point of the death penalty is to show societies absolute abhorrence of the crime committed. It is the ultimate sanction society can impose.

So if someone is accused of a crime so serious that it is unprecedented even among death penalty cases, but the uncertainty as to whether or not the accused is guilty is also unprecedent, does any reluctance to execute them, even because of the possibility they are innocent, in the absence of plausible deterrence value, constitute endorsement of their (supposed) actions?

I would rather we had a better reason to execute people than merely sending a symbolic message that doesn't prove what anyone thinks it does anyway.

[Vassenor]

The point of the death penalty is not deterrence. The point of the death penalty is to show societies absolute abhorrence of the crime committed. It is the ultimate sanction society can impose.

And in theory to thus deter other people from acting the same way.

[Ethel mermania]

The point of the death penalty is not deterrence. The point of the death penalty is to show societies absolute abhorrence of the crime committed. It is the ultimate sanction society can impose.

So if someone is accused of a crime so serious that it is unprecedented even among death penalty cases, but the uncertainty as to whether or not the accused is guilty is also unprecedent, does any reluctance to execute them, even because of the possibility they are innocent, in the absence of plausible deterrence value, constitute endorsement of their (supposed) actions?

I would rather we had a better reason to execute people than merely sending a symbolic message that doesn't prove what anyone thinks it does anyway.

If there is uncertainty as to whether the accused is guilty or not, American law says they must be found not guilty.

[Picairn]

I would rather let the executions be delayed than an innocent be executed.

Human life can't be measured by money, it is priceless.

[Gormwood]

The point of the death penalty is not deterrence. The point of the death penalty is to show societies absolute abhorrence of the crime committed. It is the ultimate sanction society can impose.

And in theory to thus deter other people from acting the same way.

People who commit capital crimes tend to be aberrant and unlikely to be deterred by an execution.

[Ifreann]

I would rather let the executions be delayed than an innocent be executed.

Human life can't be measured by money, it is priceless.

You can prevent all executions of innocent people if you abolish the death penalty. *nods*

[Picairn]

You can prevent all executions of innocent people if you abolish the death penalty. *nods*

I don't find the thought of terrorists and serial killers living long lives very comforting.

[Gormwood]

You can prevent all executions of innocent people if you abolish the death penalty. *nods*

I don't find the thought of terrorists and serial killers living long lives very comforting.

You think they'll be luxury acommodations? At best it'll be a comfortable but small enclosure like Anders Breivik is wasting away in.

[Ethel mermania]

And in theory to thus deter other people from acting the same way.

People who commit capital crimes tend to be aberrant and unlikely to be deterred by an execution.

Let's see: the first line I wrote.

"The point of the death penalty is not deterrence..."

[Duvniask]

You can prevent all executions of innocent people if you abolish the death penalty. *nods*

I don't find the thought of terrorists and serial killers living long lives very comforting.

If you support the death penalty, you must accept that there are going to be innocents who are killed. No ifs or buts, because this is something that happens. Likewise, tightening the rules for the amount of evidence needed will lessen the likelihood, but it will also make it harder to condemn those very same "terrorists and serial killers" to death.

[Gormwood]

People who commit capital crimes tend to be aberrant and unlikely to be deterred by an execution.

Let's see: the first line I wrote.

"The point of the death penalty is not deterrence..."

What's the difference between making an example and deterrence here? Either way the aberrant types won't care.

[Ethel mermania]

Let's see: the first line I wrote.

"The point of the death penalty is not deterrence..."

What's the difference between making an example and deterrence here? Either way the aberrant types won't care.

It's not to make an example. It is societies way of saying this crime is so heinous , you no longer should live.

I am paraphrasing Obama on this as I agree with him, though i can no longer find the quote with a quick google.

[Picairn]

You think they'll be luxury acommodations? At best it'll be a comfortable but small enclosure like Anders Breivik is wasting away in.

Terrorists and serial killers living long lives is already unacceptable to me. And what boils my blood is that Anders Breivik, a total scumbag, had the audacity to say his prison cell, where he can play games, watch TV and stuff, violates his rights.

[Gormwood]

You think they'll be luxury acommodations? At best it'll be a comfortable but small enclosure like Anders Breivik is wasting away in.

Terrorists and serial killers living long lives is already unacceptable to me. And what boils my blood is that Anders Breivik, a total scumbag, had the audacity to say his prison cell, where he can play games, watch TV and stuff, violates his rights.

As opposed to constant propaganda from a death sentence to promote their cause. If Breivik was getting the chair he'd score more points for his white nationalist distortion.

[Necroghastia]

As long as there's a death penalty, hell no. The death penalty itself should absolutely be scrapped, but this? This goes to show that there is indeed such a thing as a stupid question.

[Ethel mermania]

Terrorists and serial killers living long lives is already unacceptable to me. And what boils my blood is that Anders Breivik, a total scumbag, had the audacity to say his prison cell, where he can play games, watch TV and stuff, violates his rights.

As opposed to constant propaganda from a death sentence to promote their cause. If Breivik was getting the chair he'd score more points for his white nationalist distortion.

Nah, you would never hear about him again. Same with Mason, if he were executed in the early 70's, we would not have been talking about him till he died.

[Gormwood]

What's the difference between making an example and deterrence here? Either way the aberrant types won't care.

It's not to make an example. It is societies way of saying this crime is so heinous , you no longer should live.

I am paraphrasing Obama on this as I agree with him, though i can no longer find the quote with a quick google.

And as history shows, too many innocents have been sentenced or executed, most often on racism. Aside from achieving nothing besides satisfying bloodthirst, it's costly and is often applied to the undeserving.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Terrorists and serial killers living long lives is already unacceptable to me.

What if you put them on the chain gang Arizona-style?

And what boils my blood is that Anders Breivik, a total scumbag, had the audacity to say his prison cell, where he can play games, watch TV and stuff, violates his rights.

I would think the voters were more interested in deterring future murders than they were in deterring whining.

[Ethel mermania]

It's not to make an example. It is societies way of saying this crime is so heinous , you no longer should live.

I am paraphrasing Obama on this as I agree with him, though i can no longer find the quote with a quick google.

And as history shows, too many innocents have been sentenced or executed, most often on racism. Aside from achieving nothing besides satisfying bloodthirst, it's costly and is often applied to the undeserving.

Aside from satisfying blood lust, I cant argue the rest of this. The innocence project, has shown folks being wrongly convicted of crimes being on death row.

It is why I do not object to appeals of the death penalty, nor the cost of those appeals being born by the state if necessary.

[Vassenor]

You can prevent all executions of innocent people if you abolish the death penalty. *nods*

I don't find the thought of terrorists and serial killers living long lives very comforting.

You'd just prefer to make martyrs of them, apparently.

[Thepeopl]

You can prevent all executions of innocent people if you abolish the death penalty. *nods*

I don't find the thought of terrorists and serial killers living long lives very comforting.

Death is a release from imprisonment. It is the ultimate freedom. The prisoner will never have to obey anything anymore.
The worst punishment there is, is taking away someone's
freedom, the ability to make decisions for themselves.

[The Black Forrest]

Nope. The problem of executing of an innocent person should allow for it to be delayed. Until we have a better way of dealing with the "dangerous animals" of society; it should remain. Now where did I put that Mark Twain letter over the death penalty......

[Ethel mermania]

I don't find the thought of terrorists and serial killers living long lives very comforting.

Death is a release from imprisonment. It is the ultimate freedom. The prisoner will never have to obey anything anymore.
The worst punishment there is, is taking away someone's
freedom, the ability to make decisions for themselves.

Nah, Mason was able to get laid, cut an album, write a book, get married. Lotta free Choices there.