Taiwan: Chinese Sending Military Planes "Almost Daily"

[Post War America]

...Uh sure. A conventional war to invade a nuclear power is likely going to go nuclear, especially if the power in question is losing. It should also be noted that it would only take one or two warheads to fuck up either power for years. You keep deluding yourself mate, meanwhile in reality, I'll be hoping that this doesn't escalate.

I guarantee war between the two won't go nuclear, its gonna go naval until one side loses and gets invaded

If boots wind up on the ground the nukes fly I guarantee it. No way is China, or the US for that matter going to let their country fall to a conventional attack and not use the nukes.

[Slavakino]

I'm talking about conventional war. Both nations are most likely not going to use nukes, not to mention the US have more missiles compared to the Chinese when it comes to MAD, the Chinese will be completely destroyed. Not to mention if the CSTO gets involved (which it might as china is worsening relations with Russia) China would become no man's land. So conventional warfare is the only option against the Chinese

There's a reason there are no more conventional wars between superpowers.

There is. And there always will be

[Kergstan]

Praise be to comrade Xi Jinping, devouted to the inevitable goal of reaching the full unity of the chinese nation!

[Slavakino]

Praise be to comrade Xi Jinping, devouted to the inevitable goal of reaching the full unity of the chinese nation!

The ideals of Maoism has to be destroyed, glory to only the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia

[Novus America]

I guarantee war between the two won't go nuclear, its gonna go naval until one side loses and gets invaded

If boots wind up on the ground the nukes fly I guarantee it. No way is China, or the US for that matter going to let their country fall to a conventional attack and not use the nukes.

But a US PRC war would not involve either invading the mainland of the other.
Obviously if US troops were marching on Beijing or PRC troops on Washington nukes fly, but a war would not be like that. Neither has the realistic ability or any reason to try and invasion of the others mainland.

Nukes however would only be a last resort, especially for the PRC, because it would be effectively suicide.

They would only try murder suicide as a very last resort.

That being said I do not want war, but if Taiwan is attacked we must defend it.
Hopefully it is not attacked though.

[Bombadil]

If boots wind up on the ground the nukes fly I guarantee it. No way is China, or the US for that matter going to let their country fall to a conventional attack and not use the nukes.

But a US PRC war would not involve either invading the mainland of the other.
Obviously if US troops were marching on Beijing or PRC troops on Washington nukes fly, but a war would not be like that. Neither has the realistic ability or any reason to try and invasion of the others mainland.

Nukes however would only be a last resort, especially for the PRC, because it would be effectively suicide.

They would only try murder suicide as a very last resort.

That being said I do not want war, but if Taiwan is attacked we must defend it.
Hopefully it is not attacked though.

Alas given the history, the justification of the CCP and Xi Jinping's power play added to the unpredictability of Trump and it might be inevitable.

CCP justification is that they, and they alone, ended the 100 years of shame, which for full closure needs reunification with Taiwan. 2021 is the 100 year anniversary of the founding of the CCP so it would be hugely symbolic for this to happen by then. Various hardline think tanks in China have said this will simply be the case, and more that the NatSoc law in HK is a testbed for how they will handle dissent in Taiwan once completed.

It's not just about Taiwan, once they complete that note that in Chinese education it's taught that the rise of China is predicted on the fall of the West, the superiority of the CCP rule and socialist blah blah blah.

That is the mindset.

[Adamede]

Praise be to comrade Xi Jinping, devouted to the inevitable goal of reaching the full unity of the chinese nation!

Even if it ends up with thousands of Chinese dead or as political prisoners?

[Iorada]

You can continue to be so militaristic and seething with hatred for China all you want, it doesn't repudiate the facts. I would love to know truthfully how many friends you have from mainland China, who have far more authority with which to speak of China than any of you, or me. I base most of my opinions on China from those with the first-hand knowledge to speak of it. Xi Jinping for one is exceptionally popular in China, especially amongst the poorest people there. They can finally feel that China is a great nation, after so much suffering for hundreds of years.

Honestly from reading the comments on this thread the only conclusion I can come up with is that you feel threatened. Furthermore, saying I or any other pro-China person outside of China, especially in the west, is brainwashed just doesn't really stack up. If I was brainwashed by propaganda, it would be far more likely to be a lot closer to home, like all of The Washington Post, NYT, billionaire-owned, corporate newspapers that you read, most of which's articles on China make absolutely no mention of reliable sources.

Not so long ago I was pretty anti-China too, until I actually bothered to look at other points of view, something which is clearly lacking amongst the majority of those in this thread.

[Adamede]

You can continue to be so militaristic and seething with hatred for China all you want, it doesn't repudiate the facts. I would love to know truthfully how many friends you have from mainland China, who have far more authority with which to speak of China than any of you, or me. I base most of my opinions on China from those with the first-hand knowledge to speak of it. Xi Jinping for one is exceptionally popular in China, especially amongst the poorest people there. They can finally feel that China is a great nation, after so much suffering for hundreds of years.

Honestly from reading the comments on this thread the only conclusion I can come up with is that you feel threatened. Furthermore, saying I or any other pro-China person outside of China, especially in the west just doesn't really stack up. If I was brainwashed by propaganda, it would be far more likely to be a lot closer to home, like all of The Washington Post, NYT, billionaire-owned, corporate newspapers that you read, most of which's articles on China make absolutely no mention of reliable sources.

Not so long ago I was pretty anti-China too, until I actually bothered to look at other points of view, something which is clearly lacking amongst the majority of those in this group.

The only ones being militaristic here are the PRC. Just as most anti-American/anti-Western opinions are the fault of American and western actions, anti-PRC opinions rest solely on the shoulders of the PRC.

And sounds to me like you've just been drinking the koolaid given to you. Tell me, what do you think of Chinese immigrants in the west who hate the PRC and call it a authoritarian hellhole? Are their opinions not just as valid as your friends?

[Iorada]

You can continue to be so militaristic and seething with hatred for China all you want, it doesn't repudiate the facts. I would love to know truthfully how many friends you have from mainland China, who have far more authority with which to speak of China than any of you, or me. I base most of my opinions on China from those with the first-hand knowledge to speak of it. Xi Jinping for one is exceptionally popular in China, especially amongst the poorest people there. They can finally feel that China is a great nation, after so much suffering for hundreds of years.

Honestly from reading the comments on this thread the only conclusion I can come up with is that you feel threatened. Furthermore, saying I or any other pro-China person outside of China, especially in the west just doesn't really stack up. If I was brainwashed by propaganda, it would be far more likely to be a lot closer to home, like all of The Washington Post, NYT, billionaire-owned, corporate newspapers that you read, most of which's articles on China make absolutely no mention of reliable sources.

Not so long ago I was pretty anti-China too, until I actually bothered to look at other points of view, something which is clearly lacking amongst the majority of those in this group.

The only ones being militaristic here are the PRC. Just as most anti-American/anti-Western opinions are the fault of American and western actions, anti-PRC opinions rest solely on the shoulders of the PRC.

And sounds to me like you've just been drinking the koolaid given to you. Tell me, what do you think of Chinese immigrants in the west who hate the PRC and call it a authoritarian hellhole? Are their opinions not just as valid as your friends?

I mean what Kool aid am I allegedly drinking? It's hardly a popular opinion or school of thought in the west for me to support China as much as I do? I can only speak for the Chinese people I know, who number over 10 and all of them are students. I don't know a single one of them that dislikes the PRC, quite to the contrary actually. As for anti-PRC Chinese immigrants, as I said I don't know any personally, and I would sooner believe someone who is anti-PRC from actually speaking to them, not from an article written in a western paper. Furthermore if I do meet such a person, I won't argue with them about it, because I'm a firm believer in "of that which one cannot speak, one should remain silent."

[Adamede]

The only ones being militaristic here are the PRC. Just as most anti-American/anti-Western opinions are the fault of American and western actions, anti-PRC opinions rest solely on the shoulders of the PRC.

And sounds to me like you've just been drinking the koolaid given to you. Tell me, what do you think of Chinese immigrants in the west who hate the PRC and call it a authoritarian hellhole? Are their opinions not just as valid as your friends?

I mean what Kool aid am I allegedly drinking? It's hardly a popular opinion or school of thought in the west for me to support China as much as I do?

It's also not a popualr school of thought to kill yourself because some religious leader told you too.

I can only speak for the Chinese people I know, who number over 10 and all of them are students. I don't know a single one of them that dislikes the PRC, quite to the contrary actually. As for anti-PRC Chinese immigrants, as I said I don't know any personally, and I would sooner believe someone is anti-PRC from actually speaking to them, not from an article written in a western paper. Furthermore if I do meet such a person, I won't argue with them about it, because I'm a firm believer in "of that which one cannot speak, one should remain silent."

Well then by your own standards why should I believe you?

[Bear Stearns]

I mean what Kool aid am I allegedly drinking? It's hardly a popular opinion or school of thought in the west for me to support China as much as I do? I can only speak for the Chinese people I know, who number over 10 and all of them are students. I don't know a single one of them that dislikes the PRC, quite to the contrary actually.

Sounds good reason to not let these people into our country.

[Iorada]

Well then by your own standards why should I believe you?

I never said you had to, I was just providing my point of view based on the evidence I have acquired first-hand from actual people that experience the truth of life the PRC. You don't have to listen to a word I say, I'm just trying to highlight the inherent silliness in demanding conflict with China based on something you read in a newspaper.

[Adamede]

Well then by your own standards why should I believe you?

I never said you had to, I was just providing my point of view based on the evidence I have acquired first-hand from actual people that experience the truth of life the PRC. You don't have to listen to a word I say, I'm just trying to highlight the inherent silliness in demanding conflict with China based on something you read in a newspaper.

And yet in your other comments yu seem so sure that your views are the one truth.

[Iorada]

I never said you had to, I was just providing my point of view based on the evidence I have acquired first-hand from actual people that experience the truth of life the PRC. You don't have to listen to a word I say, I'm just trying to highlight the inherent silliness in demanding conflict with China based on something you read in a newspaper.

And yet in your other comments yu seem so sure that your views are the one truth.

Of course I believe what I'm saying, otherwise I'd be a fool. I can say what I want, as can you, you don't have to take heed of me. I can say it until I'm blue in the face, based on first-hand accounts from real people that I know, that I will believe them about it, and some of the more unbiased articles and books I've read. Of course I would like people to agree with me, but you don't have to.

[Bombadil]

Iorada isn't necessarily wrong in stating Xi Jinping's popularity, he's run a highly nationalistic agenda over the past couple of years specifically.

However the world is also right in being wary of a highly nationalistic dictatorship with a grudge and a desire to reunite all Chinese speaking people into a monolithic state.

And people in Taiwan, especially after seeing what's occurred in HK have every reason to be very nervous. Especially with China government think tanks openly stating this needs to happen before next year and the language of Xi Jinping and the foreign ministry dropping the idea of peaceful reunification.

[Adamede]

And yet in your other comments yu seem so sure that your views are the one truth.

Of course I believe what I'm saying, otherwise I'd be a fool. I can say what I want, as can you, you don't have to take heed of me. I can say it until I'm blue in the face, based on first-hand accounts from real people that I know, that I will believe them about it, and some of the more unbiased articles and books I've read. Of course I would like people to agree with me, but you don't have to.

So what about the media coming out of Hong Kong?

[Novus America]

The only ones being militaristic here are the PRC. Just as most anti-American/anti-Western opinions are the fault of American and western actions, anti-PRC opinions rest solely on the shoulders of the PRC.

And sounds to me like you've just been drinking the koolaid given to you. Tell me, what do you think of Chinese immigrants in the west who hate the PRC and call it a authoritarian hellhole? Are their opinions not just as valid as your friends?

I mean what Kool aid am I allegedly drinking? It's hardly a popular opinion or school of thought in the west for me to support China as much as I do? I can only speak for the Chinese people I know, who number over 10 and all of them are students. I don't know a single one of them that dislikes the PRC, quite to the contrary actually. As for anti-PRC Chinese immigrants, as I said I don't know any personally, and I would sooner believe someone who is anti-PRC from actually speaking to them, not from an article written in a western paper. Furthermore if I do meet such a person, I won't argue with them about it, because I'm a firm believer in "of that which one cannot speak, one should remain silent."

Clearly the PRC propaganda Koolaid, which is widely available.
You do realize the PRC restricts access to foreign universities to those deemed loyal to the regime?

You will not find many dissident PRC students in the West because dissidents are restricted from leaving to attend such schools, and if they are caught criticizing the regime, they will be punished severely. Plus it costs a lot of money, so it is limited to the more privileged.

Selection bias and fear means your anecdotal sample is worthless.

There are many here as refugees that tell quite different stories, members of banned religions for example.

But sure many in the PRC support the regime. Many Germans supported the Nazis. That says nothing.

But anyways that does not change that they are a military and economic threat.
This is not just about human rights but survival.
They want the West destroyed, we want it to survive.

[New haven america]

I guarantee war between the two won't go nuclear, its gonna go naval until one side loses and gets invaded

If boots wind up on the ground the nukes fly I guarantee it. No way is China, or the US for that matter going to let their country fall to a conventional attack and not use the nukes.

Nah, Beijing's too close to the coast and located in a rather flat area, a blitzkrieg would be easy.

[Post War America]

If boots wind up on the ground the nukes fly I guarantee it. No way is China, or the US for that matter going to let their country fall to a conventional attack and not use the nukes.

But a US PRC war would not involve either invading the mainland of the other.
Obviously if US troops were marching on Beijing or PRC troops on Washington nukes fly, but a war would not be like that. Neither has the realistic ability or any reason to try and invasion of the others mainland.

Nukes however would only be a last resort, especially for the PRC, because it would be effectively suicide.

They would only try murder suicide as a very last resort.

That being said I do not want war, but if Taiwan is attacked we must defend it.
Hopefully it is not attacked though.

While I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of protecting Taiwan I would do so under the condition that it formally declare its independence and renounce its claims on the mainland. The last thing the West needs is to be seen as backing a return of the Guomindang, which I fear would only be seen as an attempt at a 21st century Opium War at best.

[Adamede]

If boots wind up on the ground the nukes fly I guarantee it. No way is China, or the US for that matter going to let their country fall to a conventional attack and not use the nukes.

Nah, Beijing's too close to the coast and located in a rather flat area, a blitzkrieg would be easy.

And that's exactly why the moment that American boots land in China PRC lets it's nukes fly.

[Rusozak]

Well then by your own standards why should I believe you?

I never said you had to, I was just providing my point of view based on the evidence I have acquired first-hand from actual people that experience the truth of life the PRC. You don't have to listen to a word I say, I'm just trying to highlight the inherent silliness in demanding conflict with China based on something you read in a newspaper.

I don't really doubt your accounts (although authoritarian regimes often make their people lie about their living conditions), but what I do doubt is that your accounts are representative of the whole of the nation. Sure, to a privileged few the PRC is a great place. But it comes at a heavy cost to the rest of the populace. This is evident by the rampant human rights violations and inhumane labor conditions. So much for a classless utopia.

[Bombadil]

I never said you had to, I was just providing my point of view based on the evidence I have acquired first-hand from actual people that experience the truth of life the PRC. You don't have to listen to a word I say, I'm just trying to highlight the inherent silliness in demanding conflict with China based on something you read in a newspaper.

I don't really doubt your accounts (although authoritarian regimes often make their people lie about their living conditions), but what I do doubt is that your accounts are representative of the whole of the nation. Sure, to a privileged few the PRC is a great place. But it comes at a heavy cost to the rest of the populace. This is evident by the rampant human rights violations and inhumane labor conditions. So much for a classless utopia.

It also doesn't take into account the viewpoints of those of us in HK and those in Taiwan.

[Orostan]

If boots wind up on the ground the nukes fly I guarantee it. No way is China, or the US for that matter going to let their country fall to a conventional attack and not use the nukes.

Nah, Beijing's too close to the coast and located in a rather flat area, a blitzkrieg would be easy.

i hope for the good of humanity this is a shitpost.

I mean what Kool aid am I allegedly drinking? It's hardly a popular opinion or school of thought in the west for me to support China as much as I do? I can only speak for the Chinese people I know, who number over 10 and all of them are students. I don't know a single one of them that dislikes the PRC, quite to the contrary actually. As for anti-PRC Chinese immigrants, as I said I don't know any personally, and I would sooner believe someone who is anti-PRC from actually speaking to them, not from an article written in a western paper. Furthermore if I do meet such a person, I won't argue with them about it, because I'm a firm believer in "of that which one cannot speak, one should remain silent."

Clearly the PRC propaganda Koolaid, which is widely available.
You do realize the PRC restricts access to foreign universities to those deemed loyal to the regime?

You will not find many dissident PRC students in the West because dissidents are restricted from leaving to attend such schools, and if they are caught criticizing the regime, they will be punished severely. Plus it costs a lot of money, so it is limited to the more privileged.

Selection bias and fear means your anecdotal sample is worthless.

There are many here as refugees that tell quite different stories, members of banned religions for example.

But sure many in the PRC support the regime. Many Germans supported the Nazis. That says nothing.

But anyways that does not change that they are a military and economic threat.
This is not just about human rights but survival.
They want the West destroyed, we want it to survive.

Actually the number of Chinese people that support their government does say something - that the boring cyberpunk hellscape they live in isn't quite as bad as what Western media makes it out to be. Many Germans supported the nazis, but never a majority of them. The Nazis only ever got into power through legislative trickery and the government basically just giving them power.

[South Odreria 2]

I asked Premier Xi to invade America, not Taiwan.