The events in Portland & the plan to take it nationwide

[West Leas Oros 2]

So has the dam finally broke? Has America dropped all it's 'democratic' pretense and decided to go full autocratic? Well, maybe some of you should have seen it sooner, and now, I say, is the time for open revolution.

Ya' mean, do all that again? The minutemen, the revolutionary spirit... the "Remember lads, one if by land, two if by sea!"

Sounds good to me! Disparate movements, united against tyranny, just like in the old days!

[Skyhooked]

Sounds good to me! Disparate movements, united against tyranny, just like in the old days!

Or it would be more like Union - Confederate war? If so, there are few songs like "To arms in Dixie!"

[Genivaria]

Defense Department says it's concerned about law enforcement dressing up in Army uniforms

Defense Secretary Mark Esper has made the Trump administration aware of his concerns with the appropriation of the US military's uniforms by law-enforcement agencies as they face off with protesters in cities like Portland, Oregon, a Pentagon spokesman said Tuesday afternoon.

"We saw this take place back in June, when there were some law enforcement that wore uniforms that make them appear military," Defense Department spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said to reporters, referencing the George Floyd protests throughout the country earlier this year.

"The secretary has a expressed a concern of this within the administration, that we want a system where people can tell the difference," he added.

The confusion became apparent after video footage and pictures showed law-enforcement officials, many of whom refused to identify themselves or the agency they were working for, wearing the US Army's camouflage uniform as they confronted demonstrators.

[Adamede]

Defense Department says it's concerned about law enforcement dressing up in Army uniforms

Defense Secretary Mark Esper has made the Trump administration aware of his concerns with the appropriation of the US military's uniforms by law-enforcement agencies as they face off with protesters in cities like Portland, Oregon, a Pentagon spokesman said Tuesday afternoon.

"We saw this take place back in June, when there were some law enforcement that wore uniforms that make them appear military," Defense Department spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said to reporters, referencing the George Floyd protests throughout the country earlier this year.

"The secretary has a expressed a concern of this within the administration, that we want a system where people can tell the difference," he added.

The confusion became apparent after video footage and pictures showed law-enforcement officials, many of whom refused to identify themselves or the agency they were working for, wearing the US Army's camouflage uniform as they confronted demonstrators.

Yah I think there should be a clear division in the uniforms of police and military, especially when it comes to swat and riot police.

[Neutraligon]

Defense Department says it's concerned about law enforcement dressing up in Army uniforms

Defense Secretary Mark Esper has made the Trump administration aware of his concerns with the appropriation of the US military's uniforms by law-enforcement agencies as they face off with protesters in cities like Portland, Oregon, a Pentagon spokesman said Tuesday afternoon.

"We saw this take place back in June, when there were some law enforcement that wore uniforms that make them appear military," Defense Department spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said to reporters, referencing the George Floyd protests throughout the country earlier this year.

"The secretary has a expressed a concern of this within the administration, that we want a system where people can tell the difference," he added.

The confusion became apparent after video footage and pictures showed law-enforcement officials, many of whom refused to identify themselves or the agency they were working for, wearing the US Army's camouflage uniform as they confronted demonstrators.

Was that the stuff in DC?

[Lendenburgh]

You are going a little paranoid, you don't need to worry unless you are committing violent acts and also before saying something as drastic as saying you are in a neo- fascist state pls do remember that HS are not targeting specific races or innocent civilians and at the very least you still have the 2nd amendment which suprising enough is not supported by democrats.

I think this outlines pretty succinctly how terrifying and existentially threatening the events in Portland are.

Considering there is video evidence of people standing completely still, off federal property, not exhibiting any signs or intentions of violent behavior being beaten and then kidnapped by these secret police- in complete disregard for every legitimate legal channel of detainment or arrest- it is clear that everyone needs to be worried. We may not be in a neo-fascist state right now, but how anybody could mistake the degradation of civil liberties and deployment of military assets which can't be held accountable as something less than the beginnings of a dictatorship is beyond me.

You act as if individuals being allowed to own guns works the same today as it did in 1776. The United States government is capable of mobilizing the most advanced military force on Earth, and realistically has the ability to kill anyone on the planet with no warning from 3 miles in the sky. Unless the majority of the population were to rise up in open rebellion, it's almost certain the government could neutralize the 2nd Ammendment pretty quickly. Besides, the way dictators take over is not by sending tanks through every small town in Ohio, and having troops go door to door in Odessa and Topeka.

If Trump is in the White House, and refuses to step down after the election, the only people that could forcibly remove the president is the military. I'm not saying I expect that to happen, but I do think it should be a thought in everyone's mind when we see our Constitution being so flagrantly disregarded.

Let's be absolutely clear, the only things that prevent democracies from decaying into autocracy are the right of the people to protest and the right of the press to freely report. Beyond the administration's constant undermining of the press (I'm not commenting on whether it's warranted- just that it has had an impact on public perception of news media), the arrests of journalists openly displaying press badges, destruction of footage, cutting of cell signals like in DC, not only is the right to assembly and protest being compromised, but the critical flipside of having a free flow of information is in danger as well. When you have people who don't believe that these illegal things are happening, that's a failure not just of the media, but of democracy as well. When you have people being arrested without being read their rights, pressured into confessions for crimes they're innocent of, grouped together and labeled domestic terrorists, that's not a failure of democracy, it's the seeds of totalitarianism.

[Adamede]

You are going a little paranoid, you don't need to worry unless you are committing violent acts and also before saying something as drastic as saying you are in a neo- fascist state pls do remember that HS are not targeting specific races or innocent civilians and at the very least you still have the 2nd amendment which suprising enough is not supported by democrats.

I think this outlines pretty succinctly how terrifying and existentially threatening the events in Portland are.

Considering there is video evidence of people standing completely still, off federal property, not exhibiting any signs or intentions of violent behavior being beaten and then kidnapped by these secret police- in complete disregard for every legitimate legal channel of detainment or arrest- it is clear that everyone needs to be worried. We may not be in a neo-fascist state right now, but how anybody could mistake the degradation of civil liberties and deployment of military assets which can't be held accountable as something less than the beginnings of a dictatorship is beyond me.

You act as if individuals being allowed to own guns works the same today as it did in 1776. The United States government is capable of mobilizing the most advanced military force on Earth, and realistically has the ability to kill anyone on the planet with no warning from 3 miles in the sky. Unless the majority of the population were to rise up in open rebellion, it's almost certain the government could neutralize the 2nd Ammendment pretty quickly. Besides, the way dictators take over is not by sending tanks through every small town in Ohio, and having troops go door to door in Odessa and Topeka.

If Trump is in the White House, and refuses to step down after the election, the only people that could forcibly remove the president is the military. I'm not saying I expect that to happen, but I do think it should be a thought in everyone's mind when we see our Constitution being so flagrantly disregarded.

Let's be absolutely clear, the only things that prevent democracies from decaying into autocracy are the right of the people to protest and the right of the press to freely report. Beyond the administration's constant undermining of the press (I'm not commenting on whether it's warranted- just that it has had an impact on public perception of news media), the arrests of journalists openly displaying press badges, destruction of footage, cutting of cell signals like in DC, not only is the right to assembly and protest being compromised, but the critical flipside of having a free flow of information is in danger as well. When you have people who don't believe that these illegal things are happening, that's a failure not just of the media, but of democracy as well. When you have people being arrested without being read their rights, pressured into confessions for crimes they're innocent of, grouped together and labeled domestic terrorists, that's not a failure of democracy, it's the seeds of totalitarianism.

The US military doesn't exactly have the vest track record when it comes to winning against insurgencies. And nuking your own populace isnt how you win a civil war. And dictators can rise to power through peaceful means, but they can't keep it that way.

[Genivaria]

I think this outlines pretty succinctly how terrifying and existentially threatening the events in Portland are.

Considering there is video evidence of people standing completely still, off federal property, not exhibiting any signs or intentions of violent behavior being beaten and then kidnapped by these secret police- in complete disregard for every legitimate legal channel of detainment or arrest- it is clear that everyone needs to be worried. We may not be in a neo-fascist state right now, but how anybody could mistake the degradation of civil liberties and deployment of military assets which can't be held accountable as something less than the beginnings of a dictatorship is beyond me.

You act as if individuals being allowed to own guns works the same today as it did in 1776. The United States government is capable of mobilizing the most advanced military force on Earth, and realistically has the ability to kill anyone on the planet with no warning from 3 miles in the sky. Unless the majority of the population were to rise up in open rebellion, it's almost certain the government could neutralize the 2nd Ammendment pretty quickly. Besides, the way dictators take over is not by sending tanks through every small town in Ohio, and having troops go door to door in Odessa and Topeka.

If Trump is in the White House, and refuses to step down after the election, the only people that could forcibly remove the president is the military. I'm not saying I expect that to happen, but I do think it should be a thought in everyone's mind when we see our Constitution being so flagrantly disregarded.

Let's be absolutely clear, the only things that prevent democracies from decaying into autocracy are the right of the people to protest and the right of the press to freely report. Beyond the administration's constant undermining of the press (I'm not commenting on whether it's warranted- just that it has had an impact on public perception of news media), the arrests of journalists openly displaying press badges, destruction of footage, cutting of cell signals like in DC, not only is the right to assembly and protest being compromised, but the critical flipside of having a free flow of information is in danger as well. When you have people who don't believe that these illegal things are happening, that's a failure not just of the media, but of democracy as well. When you have people being arrested without being read their rights, pressured into confessions for crimes they're innocent of, grouped together and labeled domestic terrorists, that's not a failure of democracy, it's the seeds of totalitarianism.

The US military doesn't exactly have the vest track record when it comes to winning against insurgencies. And nuking your own populace isnt how you win a civil war. And dictators can rise to power through peaceful means, but they can't keep it that way.

The military isn't really a factor in the protests, in fact it's unlikely the military would comply with being sent to disperse protests.

[Adamede]

The US military doesn't exactly have the vest track record when it comes to winning against insurgencies. And nuking your own populace isnt how you win a civil war. And dictators can rise to power through peaceful means, but they can't keep it that way.

The military isn't really a factor in the protests, in fact it's unlikely the military would comply with being sent to disperse protests.

Eh, remains to be seen.

[Ifreann]

Your proposed sterner response is ordinary police violence

The presumption that arresting someone for committing a possibly violent felony constitutes police violence is alarming unless you mean this in a purely philosophical sense.

Of course it constitutes police violence. By its very nature arrest is inherently a threat of violence. Comply or be forced to comply. The handcuffs aren't symbolic, they're there to physically restrain the person being arrested. And this is assuming that the police just walk up to someone and inform them politely that they're being arrested. More likely someone's getting tackled to the ground, hit with a taser, or threatened at gunpoint. Or, as you suggest later, attacked with tear gas and rubber bullets. Assaulted by the police for being out in public.

and greater police numbers?

Having more police patrolling the streets is generally a good way of maintaining social order in the short-term. I don't think law-abiding citizens should have to suffer predation by people engaged in unlawful activities.

So then don't increase the police numbers, since they're preying on people and engaging in unlawful activities.

That's both hilariously underwhelming and practically impossible. Where is Portland going to get more cops?

Conventionally, they'd ask for help from state or federal authorities to bring the situation under control. The issue is that the mayor and municipal government have allowed rioters and street brawlers to operate with impunity for years now. If they had preserved order earlier, this probably wouldn't have been such a massive issue.

Portland resident Neutraligon has been telling us, in this thread and others, that unrest was dying down when the police were reined in, and has increased now that Trump's secret police are out snatching people off the streets and tear gassing people who protest them using tear gas. Turns out that the police are the problem. You can't send out more cops to stop people protesting against cops.

Well. You can, but it won't work.

Even if they did, how are they going to pick out and arrest the specific individuals in huge crowds who are breaking the law? And how are they going to disperse crowds when the brutality they're employing now doesn't work?

You don't arrest specific people if you can't pick them out. Obviously. If you can pick them out and apprehend them though, there's no reason they shouldn't be arrested.

So no arrests, essentially.

As for dispersing unruly or violent crowds, use tear gas, rubber bullets, and other conventional means. Treat this how you treat any other riot. Don't send out unidentified officers to randomly apprehend people who aren't engaged in criminal acts.

What part of the events of the last few weeks has lead you to believe that people determined to protest can be deterred by tear gas and rubber bullets?

[Eternal Cesken]

Call me overly paranoid, but...

The events in portland have me terrified for my life, even more so now that the US gov has plans to go nationwide and are not apologizing, and are singling out Democrat-controlled regions. I've been posting on all my social media cryptic goodbyes, because I am aware of the historical precedent: Nazi Germany's Gestapo. They targeted the disabled and the gays, in addition to Jews and political opponents

As someone who is disabled and bisexual (realized it in 2013), and who likes to double checks history now and then, I am not expecting to make it through this, knowing the writing's been on the wall since 2016, at least for me.

Here's hoping I'm wrong

Relevant news bits:

https://www.motherjones.com/anti-racism ... your-town/

The Trump administration says the Department of Homeland Security can occupy downtown Portland, tear gas protesters, and arrest people on city streets with little explanation. Critics say that’s fascist. DHS says it’s a model to take on the road.

“With as much lawbreaking is going on, we’re seeking to prosecute as many people as are breaking the law as it relates to federal jurisdiction,” acting Homeland Security Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli told NPR on Friday. “That’s not always happening with respect to local jurisdiction and local offenses. But, you know, this is a posture we intend to continue not just in Portland but in any of the facilities that we’re responsible for around the country.”

In Portland, DHS, defying the express wishes of elected officials, appears to be using the fig leaf of defending federal property to pursue President Donald Trump’s wish to forcibly suppress unrest. In what critics call clearly unconstitutional behavior, camouflage-clad officers—Mother Jones reported on Friday that they are Border Patrol agents—have arrested protesters, allegedly without identifying or explaining themselves. Federal officers have used tear gas and shot projectiles from paintball guns at protesters.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-glob ... SKCN24L1I1

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump on Monday said he would send law enforcement to more U.S. cities, as a federal crackdown on anti-racism protests in Oregon with unmarked cars and unidentified forces angered people across the country.

Trump, a Republican, cited New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore and Oakland, California, as places to send federal agents, noting the cities’ mayors were “liberal Democrats.” Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot frequently blasts Trump on Twitter.

“We’re sending law enforcement,” Trump told reporters at the White House. “We can’t let this happen to the cities.”

State and local leaders in Oregon, as well as members of Congress, have called for Trump to remove Department of Homeland Security secret police forces from Portland, Oregon, after videos showed unidentified federal personnel rounding up people and whisking them away in black minivans.

Its about time we had actual law and order, instead of rabid gangs of criminals running around killing, looting, and burning our country.

[Ifreann]

Call me overly paranoid, but...

The events in portland have me terrified for my life, even more so now that the US gov has plans to go nationwide and are not apologizing, and are singling out Democrat-controlled regions. I've been posting on all my social media cryptic goodbyes, because I am aware of the historical precedent: Nazi Germany's Gestapo. They targeted the disabled and the gays, in addition to Jews and political opponents

As someone who is disabled and bisexual (realized it in 2013), and who likes to double checks history now and then, I am not expecting to make it through this, knowing the writing's been on the wall since 2016, at least for me.

Here's hoping I'm wrong

Relevant news bits:

https://www.motherjones.com/anti-racism ... your-town/




https://www.reuters.com/article/us-glob ... SKCN24L1I1

Its about time we had actual law and order, instead of rabid gangs of criminals running around killing, looting, and burning our country.

I oppose the police and their killing, looting, and burning, but it's really not necessary to call them rabid.

[Adamede]

Call me overly paranoid, but...

The events in portland have me terrified for my life, even more so now that the US gov has plans to go nationwide and are not apologizing, and are singling out Democrat-controlled regions. I've been posting on all my social media cryptic goodbyes, because I am aware of the historical precedent: Nazi Germany's Gestapo. They targeted the disabled and the gays, in addition to Jews and political opponents

As someone who is disabled and bisexual (realized it in 2013), and who likes to double checks history now and then, I am not expecting to make it through this, knowing the writing's been on the wall since 2016, at least for me.

Here's hoping I'm wrong

Relevant news bits:

https://www.motherjones.com/anti-racism ... your-town/




https://www.reuters.com/article/us-glob ... SKCN24L1I1

Its about time we had actual law and order, instead of rabid gangs of criminals running around killing, looting, and burning our country.

Law and Order at what cost? Last I checked unmarked police weren't necessary to have a functioning society.

[Shazbotdom]

Yes, like saying that Trump will cause a second holocaust isn't a bigger hyperbole.

"Trump would NEVER do THAT!!"

Take a shot.

If I had to take a shot every time I heard a Trump supporter say something stupid, I'd have alcohol poisoning...

[Eternal Cesken]

Its about time we had actual law and order, instead of rabid gangs of criminals running around killing, looting, and burning our country.

Law and Order at what cost? Last I checked unmarked police weren't necessary to have a functioning society.

Law and Order at Any cost. Remember: "It is the right of all men to be free, but freedom does not exist except within an order"

[Necroghastia]

Call me overly paranoid, but...

The events in portland have me terrified for my life, even more so now that the US gov has plans to go nationwide and are not apologizing, and are singling out Democrat-controlled regions. I've been posting on all my social media cryptic goodbyes, because I am aware of the historical precedent: Nazi Germany's Gestapo. They targeted the disabled and the gays, in addition to Jews and political opponents

As someone who is disabled and bisexual (realized it in 2013), and who likes to double checks history now and then, I am not expecting to make it through this, knowing the writing's been on the wall since 2016, at least for me.

Here's hoping I'm wrong

Relevant news bits:

https://www.motherjones.com/anti-racism ... your-town/




https://www.reuters.com/article/us-glob ... SKCN24L1I1

Its about time we had actual law and order, instead of rabid gangs of criminals running around killing, looting, and burning our country.

And that was going on in Portland? Source?

[Adamede]

Law and Order at what cost? Last I checked unmarked police weren't necessary to have a functioning society.

Law and Order at Any cost. Remember: "It is the right of all men to be free, but freedom does not exist except within an order"

No.

[Necroghastia]

Law and Order at what cost? Last I checked unmarked police weren't necessary to have a functioning society.

Law and Order at Any cost. Remember: "It is the right of all men to be free, but freedom does not exist except within an order"

who the fuck said that lol

[Eternal Cesken]

Law and Order at Any cost. Remember: "It is the right of all men to be free, but freedom does not exist except within an order"

who the fuck said that lol

The man's name eludes me, all that I remember is the quote itself, and that the man was a high ranking member of the FET y de las JONS (Falange Española Tradicionalista y de las Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional Sindicalista)

[Rijkenlandd]

Let the bullets fly. Those lefties in Portland had all their guns taken away by Democrats.

[Adamede]

Let the bullets fly. Those lefties in Portland had all their guns taken away by Democrats.

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Regardless I'd rather not have the government summarily execute people in the street.

[Farnhamia]

Let the bullets fly. Those lefties in Portland had all their guns taken away by Democrats.

*** 7 day ban for trolling ***

[Kowani]

who the fuck said that lol

The man's name eludes me, all that I remember is the quote itself, and that the man was a high ranking member of the FET y de las JONS (Falange Española Tradicionalista y de las Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional Sindicalista)

Ah. So he was a fuckstick, then.

[Fahran]

The man's name eludes me, all that I remember is the quote itself, and that the man was a high ranking member of the FET y de las JONS (Falange Española Tradicionalista y de las Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional Sindicalista)

Ah. So he was a fuckstick, then.

It was Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera. He wasn't exactly a pleasant man but his execution was unjust.

[Kowani]

Ah. So he was a fuckstick, then.

It was Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera. He wasn't exactly a pleasant man but his execution was unjust.

Justice is what we make it to be.
For dictators and tyrants, there is no unjust death.