NationStates

Torisakia wrote:

The Rich Port wrote:To everybody saying people are overreacting, lemme ask you: do YOU know what the fuck happened to the people who got put in these vans?

Who detained them? Why? Are they Secret Service agents? Federal Marshals? Military? It could be literally ANYBODY. Regardless of whether they're government officials, they shouldn't have this much jurisdiction and powers permitted. Using fucking Customs and Border Protection agents is downright disgusting dirty tactics and ILLEGAL.

Anybody who has ever given two shits about "state rights" should be grabbing their guns and preparing to defend themselves from this complete shitting on the Fourth and Fifth Amendment.

To everybody who is going to the obvious: it's not gonna be "conservatives", especially not Trump supporters. Arm yourselves. Know the law. Be respectful of the law and good police but we must all be ready to defend ourselves if the police will not.

My plan (which has been my plan all along) is to just not get involved in the situation. They can't kidnap you if you don't participate. Five-dimensional chess, you know.

Necroghastia wrote:

Slaughter None wrote:You are going a little paranoid, you don't need to worry unless you are committing violent acts and also before saying something as drastic as saying you are in a neo- fascist state pls do remember that HS are not targeting specific races or innocent civilians and at the very least you still have the 2nd amendment which suprising enough is not supported by democrats.

Law enforcement agents aren’t targeting protesters who engaged in violence; they appear to be sweeping up random people who have exercised their rights under the First Amendment.

Like Mark Pettibone, 29, who was heading home in the early hours of Wednesday morning when, according to The Post’s Katie Shepherd, “several men in green military fatigues and generic ‘police’ patches sprang out of an unmarked gray minivan.” Pettibone was detained, searched, driven to the federal courthouse, placed in a holding cell and read his Miranda rights against self-incrimination. He declined to waive them. And then, about 90 minutes later, he was released.

“I just happened to be wearing black on a sidewalk in downtown Portland at the time,” Pettibone told Oregon Public Broadcasting. “And that apparently is grounds for detaining me.”
Lie some more uwu

Necroghastia wrote:

Slaughter None wrote:You are going a little paranoid, you don't need to worry unless you are committing violent acts and also before saying something as drastic as saying you are in a neo- fascist state pls do remember that HS are not targeting specific races or innocent civilians and at the very least you still have the 2nd amendment which suprising enough is not supported by democrats.

Law enforcement agents aren’t targeting protesters who engaged in violence; they appear to be sweeping up random people who have exercised their rights under the First Amendment.

Like Mark Pettibone, 29, who was heading home in the early hours of Wednesday morning when, according to The Post’s Katie Shepherd, “several men in green military fatigues and generic ‘police’ patches sprang out of an unmarked gray minivan.” Pettibone was detained, searched, driven to the federal courthouse, placed in a holding cell and read his Miranda rights against self-incrimination. He declined to waive them. And then, about 90 minutes later, he was released.

“I just happened to be wearing black on a sidewalk in downtown Portland at the time,” Pettibone told Oregon Public Broadcasting. “And that apparently is grounds for detaining me.”
Lie some more uwu

Ethel mermania wrote:

Necroghastia wrote:Law enforcement agents aren’t targeting protesters who engaged in violence; they appear to be sweeping up random people who have exercised their rights under the First Amendment.

Like Mark Pettibone, 29, who was heading home in the early hours of Wednesday morning when, according to The Post’s Katie Shepherd, “several men in green military fatigues and generic ‘police’ patches sprang out of an unmarked gray minivan.” Pettibone was detained, searched, driven to the federal courthouse, placed in a holding cell and read his Miranda rights against self-incrimination. He declined to waive them. And then, about 90 minutes later, he was released.

“I just happened to be wearing black on a sidewalk in downtown Portland at the time,” Pettibone told Oregon Public Broadcasting. “And that apparently is grounds for detaining me.”
Lie some more uwu

Kidnappers generally dont release folks.

Ethel mermania wrote:

Necroghastia wrote:Law enforcement agents aren’t targeting protesters who engaged in violence; they appear to be sweeping up random people who have exercised their rights under the First Amendment.

Like Mark Pettibone, 29, who was heading home in the early hours of Wednesday morning when, according to The Post’s Katie Shepherd, “several men in green military fatigues and generic ‘police’ patches sprang out of an unmarked gray minivan.” Pettibone was detained, searched, driven to the federal courthouse, placed in a holding cell and read his Miranda rights against self-incrimination. He declined to waive them. And then, about 90 minutes later, he was released.

“I just happened to be wearing black on a sidewalk in downtown Portland at the time,” Pettibone told Oregon Public Broadcasting. “And that apparently is grounds for detaining me.”
Lie some more uwu

Kidnappers generally dont release folks.

Slaughter None wrote:

The Plutonian Empire wrote:
Kind of hard to take advantage of 2A and revolt if one has been thoroughly brainwashed into rooting for the very government that's begun oppressing people it doesn't like.

Have you seen the scene on the scenes. Are you going to seriously support these anarchists? And if anybody is brainwashed here it's you as I see the footage and then judge for myself.

Rusozak wrote:

Kyundao wrote:If you guys thought the leftist radicals in Democrat-run cities are violent enough, this is really going to make them turn into even worse people (seriously, the Democrat-run cities are just as bad as Nazi Germany). I'm sorry, but it's pretty obvious we're headed for a civil war if the American left doesn't act civilized for once.

Hi, I'm in Chicago. Can you point me to the nearest concentration camp or gestapo office? I can't seem to find any.

Fahran wrote:I do believe a sterner response to politically-motivated street violence was necessary given what has been happening in places like Portland and Seattle. That said, any response, whether municipal, state, or federal, should still adhere to the legal process and should still respect the constitutional rights of citizens. If someone is detained by law enforcement officials, there should be due suspicion that they have committed a crime and the arrest should occur in a transparent manner. If you want to infiltrate anarchist cells or whatever, do what has been done with gangs or white nationalist militias in the past. Insert under-cover officers and arrest people who are actually committing crimes - don't just grab people off the street and hope they'll rat out criminals because they're terrified.

Necroghastia wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:Kidnappers generally dont release folks.

Kidnappers DO generally force people into unmarked vehicles and do not ID themselves either.

Ifreann wrote:

Slaughter None wrote:Have you seen the scene on the scenes. Are you going to seriously support these anarchists? And if anybody is brainwashed here it's you as I see the footage and then judge for myself.

You see footage of people being snatched off the streets and bundled into unmarked vehicles by unidentified armed men, and your judgement of this series of events is...that it's fine? Reports that the people being detained are not suspected of doing anything wrong and weren't charged with anything?

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Rusozak wrote:
Hi, I'm in Chicago. Can you point me to the nearest concentration camp or gestapo office? I can't seem to find any.

Homan Square. Did you not know about it?

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Fahran wrote:I do believe a sterner response to politically-motivated street violence was necessary given what has been happening in places like Portland and Seattle. That said, any response, whether municipal, state, or federal, should still adhere to the legal process and should still respect the constitutional rights of citizens. If someone is detained by law enforcement officials, there should be due suspicion that they have committed a crime and the arrest should occur in a transparent manner. If you want to infiltrate anarchist cells or whatever, do what has been done with gangs or white nationalist militias in the past. Insert under-cover officers and arrest people who are actually committing crimes - don't just grab people off the street and hope they'll rat out criminals because they're terrified.

Sterner response meaning what? The cops were already flooding the streets with tear gas and shooting people directly in the face with rubber bullets, what's sterner than that?

Ifreann wrote:Sterner response meaning what? The cops were already flooding the streets with tear gas and shooting people directly in the face with rubber bullets, what's sterner than that?

Kuraschia wrote:WHOOHOOO! Here comes a country that says freedom is great, but then they straight up start a military regime!

Kuraschia wrote:It's really great to see how the US has gone from a decently developed 1st work country to a literal hellhole in like two months.

Kuraschia wrote:Hopefully this means Trump is out, unless he decides to use ''emergency powers'' to lengthen his term.

Kuraschia wrote:WHOOHOOO! Here comes a country that says freedom is great, but then they straight up start a military regime! It's really great to see how the US has gone from a decently developed 1st work country to a literal hellhole in like two months. Hopefully this means Trump is out, unless he decides to use ''emergency powers'' to lengthen his term.

Fahran wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Sterner response meaning what? The cops were already flooding the streets with tear gas and shooting people directly in the face with rubber bullets, what's sterner than that?

There have been issues with protestors harassing, accosting, and assaulting people, committing acts of vandalism, engaging in violent street brawls, and assuming the authority rightly owed to government officials in Portland the past few years. Police flooding the street to discourage that sort of behavior, arresting people who engage in it, and dispersing large unruly mobs is sufficient for me. As I mentioned, I don't think police brutality and departures from the legal process should be acceptable responses.

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Doesn’t surprise me that Trump and his cronies would try and pull some fashy bullshit like this.

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Doesn’t surprise me that Trump and his cronies would try and pull some fashy bullshit like this.

Ethel mermania wrote:

Ifreann wrote:You see footage of people being snatched off the streets and bundled into unmarked vehicles by unidentified armed men, and your judgement of this series of events is...that it's fine? Reports that the people being detained are not suspected of doing anything wrong and weren't charged with anything?

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Homan Square. Did you not know about it?

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Sterner response meaning what? The cops were already flooding the streets with tear gas and shooting people directly in the face with rubber bullets, what's sterner than that?

Apparently hitting the wrong people as buildings were set on fire and tagged.

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Doesn’t surprise me that Trump and his cronies would try and pull some fashy bullshit like this.

Ethel mermania wrote:

Necroghastia wrote:Law enforcement agents aren’t targeting protesters who engaged in violence; they appear to be sweeping up random people who have exercised their rights under the First Amendment.

Like Mark Pettibone, 29, who was heading home in the early hours of Wednesday morning when, according to The Post’s Katie Shepherd, “several men in green military fatigues and generic ‘police’ patches sprang out of an unmarked gray minivan.” Pettibone was detained, searched, driven to the federal courthouse, placed in a holding cell and read his Miranda rights against self-incrimination. He declined to waive them. And then, about 90 minutes later, he was released.

“I just happened to be wearing black on a sidewalk in downtown Portland at the time,” Pettibone told Oregon Public Broadcasting. “And that apparently is grounds for detaining me.”
Lie some more uwu

Kidnappers generally dont release folks.

Neutraligon wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:Kidnappers generally dont release folks.

Doesn't matter
Here is the definition of kidnapping in Oregon
A person commits the crime of kidnapping in the second degree if, with intent to interfere substantially with another’s personal liberty, and without consent or legal authority, the person:

(a)Takes the person from one place to another; or

(b)Secretly confines the person in a place where the person is not likely to be found.

Whether they are eventually released means nothing.

Greed and Death wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:Doesn't matter
Here is the definition of kidnapping in Oregon
A person commits the crime of kidnapping in the second degree if, with intent to interfere substantially with another’s personal liberty, and without consent or legal authority, the person:

(a)Takes the person from one place to another; or

(b)Secretly confines the person in a place where the person is not likely to be found.

Whether they are eventually released means nothing.

It is the legal authority bit that generally gets them off the hook.

Greed and Death wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:Doesn't matter
Here is the definition of kidnapping in Oregon
A person commits the crime of kidnapping in the second degree if, with intent to interfere substantially with another’s personal liberty, and without consent or legal authority, the person:

(a)Takes the person from one place to another; or

(b)Secretly confines the person in a place where the person is not likely to be found.

Whether they are eventually released means nothing.

It is the legal authority bit that generally gets them off the hook.

Slaughter None wrote:at the very least you still have the 2nd amendment which suprising enough is not supported by democrats.

Neutraligon wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:
It is the legal authority bit that generally gets them off the hook.

Yes, however that is being questioned in this case. Just pointing out that a kidnapping charge holds true even if the person is released.

Looked up the federal definition. https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-c ... -1201.html Under federal law if they are held for more then 24 hours "creates a rebuttable presumption that such person has been transported in interstate or foreign commerce." Meaning if people whereunlawfully seized and have not yet been released the agents might fall under federal jurisdiction in addition to having to deal with the state law.

Andsed wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:
It is the legal authority bit that generally gets them off the hook.

I mean don´t they need just cause to detain someone? Detaining someone who was not doing anything or even really related to the protests does not really have any justifiable reason. So the law enforcement that did this would be legally in the wron-- oh wait this is America and here police are basically immune to prosecution. How silly of me to forget.