The events in Portland & the plan to take it nationwide

[Andsed]

To everybody saying people are overreacting, lemme ask you: do YOU know what the fuck happened to the people who got put in these vans?

Who detained them? Why? Are they Secret Service agents? Federal Marshals? Military? It could be literally ANYBODY. Regardless of whether they're government officials, they shouldn't have this much jurisdiction and powers permitted. Using fucking Customs and Border Protection agents is downright disgusting dirty tactics and ILLEGAL.

Anybody who has ever given two shits about "state rights" should be grabbing their guns and preparing to defend themselves from this complete shitting on the Fourth and Fifth Amendment.

To everybody who is going to the obvious: it's not gonna be "conservatives", especially not Trump supporters. Arm yourselves. Know the law. Be respectful of the law and good police but we must all be ready to defend ourselves if the police will not.

My plan (which has been my plan all along) is to just not get involved in the situation. They can't kidnap you if you don't participate. Five-dimensional chess, you know.

You are going a little paranoid, you don't need to worry unless you are committing violent acts and also before saying something as drastic as saying you are in a neo- fascist state pls do remember that HS are not targeting specific races or innocent civilians and at the very least you still have the 2nd amendment which suprising enough is not supported by democrats.

Law enforcement agents aren’t targeting protesters who engaged in violence; they appear to be sweeping up random people who have exercised their rights under the First Amendment.

Like Mark Pettibone, 29, who was heading home in the early hours of Wednesday morning when, according to The Post’s Katie Shepherd, “several men in green military fatigues and generic ‘police’ patches sprang out of an unmarked gray minivan.” Pettibone was detained, searched, driven to the federal courthouse, placed in a holding cell and read his Miranda rights against self-incrimination. He declined to waive them. And then, about 90 minutes later, he was released.

“I just happened to be wearing black on a sidewalk in downtown Portland at the time,” Pettibone told Oregon Public Broadcasting. “And that apparently is grounds for detaining me.”
Lie some more uwu

According to this you do not even have to be involved with the protest or committing a crime to be detained. So basically if you look slightly suspicious you could just be detained. Merica am I right?

[Kuraschia]

WHOOHOOO! Here comes a country that says freedom is great, but then they straight up start a military regime! It's really great to see how the US has gone from a decently developed 1st work country to a literal hellhole in like two months. Hopefully this means Trump is out, unless he decides to use ''emergency powers'' to lengthen his term.

[Ethel mermania]

You are going a little paranoid, you don't need to worry unless you are committing violent acts and also before saying something as drastic as saying you are in a neo- fascist state pls do remember that HS are not targeting specific races or innocent civilians and at the very least you still have the 2nd amendment which suprising enough is not supported by democrats.

Law enforcement agents aren’t targeting protesters who engaged in violence; they appear to be sweeping up random people who have exercised their rights under the First Amendment.

Like Mark Pettibone, 29, who was heading home in the early hours of Wednesday morning when, according to The Post’s Katie Shepherd, “several men in green military fatigues and generic ‘police’ patches sprang out of an unmarked gray minivan.” Pettibone was detained, searched, driven to the federal courthouse, placed in a holding cell and read his Miranda rights against self-incrimination. He declined to waive them. And then, about 90 minutes later, he was released.

“I just happened to be wearing black on a sidewalk in downtown Portland at the time,” Pettibone told Oregon Public Broadcasting. “And that apparently is grounds for detaining me.”
Lie some more uwu

Kidnappers generally dont release folks.

[Necroghastia]

Law enforcement agents aren’t targeting protesters who engaged in violence; they appear to be sweeping up random people who have exercised their rights under the First Amendment.

Like Mark Pettibone, 29, who was heading home in the early hours of Wednesday morning when, according to The Post’s Katie Shepherd, “several men in green military fatigues and generic ‘police’ patches sprang out of an unmarked gray minivan.” Pettibone was detained, searched, driven to the federal courthouse, placed in a holding cell and read his Miranda rights against self-incrimination. He declined to waive them. And then, about 90 minutes later, he was released.

“I just happened to be wearing black on a sidewalk in downtown Portland at the time,” Pettibone told Oregon Public Broadcasting. “And that apparently is grounds for detaining me.”
Lie some more uwu

Kidnappers generally dont release folks.

Kidnappers DO generally force people into unmarked vehicles and do not ID themselves either.

[The Rich Port]

Law enforcement agents aren’t targeting protesters who engaged in violence; they appear to be sweeping up random people who have exercised their rights under the First Amendment.

Like Mark Pettibone, 29, who was heading home in the early hours of Wednesday morning when, according to The Post’s Katie Shepherd, “several men in green military fatigues and generic ‘police’ patches sprang out of an unmarked gray minivan.” Pettibone was detained, searched, driven to the federal courthouse, placed in a holding cell and read his Miranda rights against self-incrimination. He declined to waive them. And then, about 90 minutes later, he was released.

“I just happened to be wearing black on a sidewalk in downtown Portland at the time,” Pettibone told Oregon Public Broadcasting. “And that apparently is grounds for detaining me.”
Lie some more uwu

Kidnappers generally dont release folks.

Oh just generally, our mistake. Hot take on kidnappers releasing people.

[Ifreann]

Kind of hard to take advantage of 2A and revolt if one has been thoroughly brainwashed into rooting for the very government that's begun oppressing people it doesn't like.

Have you seen the scene on the scenes. Are you going to seriously support these anarchists? And if anybody is brainwashed here it's you as I see the footage and then judge for myself.

You see footage of people being snatched off the streets and bundled into unmarked vehicles by unidentified armed men, and your judgement of this series of events is...that it's fine? Reports that the people being detained are not suspected of doing anything wrong and weren't charged with anything?

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If you guys thought the leftist radicals in Democrat-run cities are violent enough, this is really going to make them turn into even worse people (seriously, the Democrat-run cities are just as bad as Nazi Germany). I'm sorry, but it's pretty obvious we're headed for a civil war if the American left doesn't act civilized for once.

Hi, I'm in Chicago. Can you point me to the nearest concentration camp or gestapo office? I can't seem to find any.

Homan Square. Did you not know about it?

---

I do believe a sterner response to politically-motivated street violence was necessary given what has been happening in places like Portland and Seattle. That said, any response, whether municipal, state, or federal, should still adhere to the legal process and should still respect the constitutional rights of citizens. If someone is detained by law enforcement officials, there should be due suspicion that they have committed a crime and the arrest should occur in a transparent manner. If you want to infiltrate anarchist cells or whatever, do what has been done with gangs or white nationalist militias in the past. Insert under-cover officers and arrest people who are actually committing crimes - don't just grab people off the street and hope they'll rat out criminals because they're terrified.

Sterner response meaning what? The cops were already flooding the streets with tear gas and shooting people directly in the face with rubber bullets, what's sterner than that?

[Ethel mermania]

Kidnappers generally dont release folks.

Kidnappers DO generally force people into unmarked vehicles and do not ID themselves either.

2 outa 3 ain't bad, but that doesnt make it true.

[Ethel mermania]

Have you seen the scene on the scenes. Are you going to seriously support these anarchists? And if anybody is brainwashed here it's you as I see the footage and then judge for myself.

You see footage of people being snatched off the streets and bundled into unmarked vehicles by unidentified armed men, and your judgement of this series of events is...that it's fine? Reports that the people being detained are not suspected of doing anything wrong and weren't charged with anything?

---

Hi, I'm in Chicago. Can you point me to the nearest concentration camp or gestapo office? I can't seem to find any.

Homan Square. Did you not know about it?

---

I do believe a sterner response to politically-motivated street violence was necessary given what has been happening in places like Portland and Seattle. That said, any response, whether municipal, state, or federal, should still adhere to the legal process and should still respect the constitutional rights of citizens. If someone is detained by law enforcement officials, there should be due suspicion that they have committed a crime and the arrest should occur in a transparent manner. If you want to infiltrate anarchist cells or whatever, do what has been done with gangs or white nationalist militias in the past. Insert under-cover officers and arrest people who are actually committing crimes - don't just grab people off the street and hope they'll rat out criminals because they're terrified.

Sterner response meaning what? The cops were already flooding the streets with tear gas and shooting people directly in the face with rubber bullets, what's sterner than that?

Apparently hitting the wrong people as buildings were set on fire and tagged.

[Fahran]

Sterner response meaning what? The cops were already flooding the streets with tear gas and shooting people directly in the face with rubber bullets, what's sterner than that?

There have been issues with protestors harassing, accosting, and assaulting people, committing acts of vandalism, engaging in violent street brawls, and assuming the authority rightly owed to government officials in Portland the past few years. Police flooding the street to discourage that sort of behavior, arresting people who engage in it, and dispersing large unruly mobs is sufficient for me. As I mentioned, I don't think police brutality and departures from the legal process should be acceptable responses.

[Fahran]

WHOOHOOO! Here comes a country that says freedom is great, but then they straight up start a military regime!

We don't have a military regime. To be honest, calling out the national guard in more unruly places would probably be preferable to what's happening at the moment. Handle it the way we've traditionally handled other large-scale riots.

It's really great to see how the US has gone from a decently developed 1st work country to a literal hellhole in like two months.

It's honestly not that bad in most places. Portland has sort of been a hotbed of political radicalism for the past few decades with both white nationalists and socialists acting foolish and that, as well as a lack of regard for due process by the Trump administration, is why the situation is so bad there in particular.

Hopefully this means Trump is out, unless he decides to use ''emergency powers'' to lengthen his term.

I doubt Biden is going to simply let large-scale riots happen though he probably won't be as bad as Trump when it comes to policing them.

[The Plutonian Empire]

WHOOHOOO! Here comes a country that says freedom is great, but then they straight up start a military regime! It's really great to see how the US has gone from a decently developed 1st work country to a literal hellhole in like two months. Hopefully this means Trump is out, unless he decides to use ''emergency powers'' to lengthen his term.

He will. I can basically guarantee it. It's just a matter of time before Trump does cancel the election, tbh

[Ifreann]

Sterner response meaning what? The cops were already flooding the streets with tear gas and shooting people directly in the face with rubber bullets, what's sterner than that?

There have been issues with protestors harassing, accosting, and assaulting people, committing acts of vandalism, engaging in violent street brawls, and assuming the authority rightly owed to government officials in Portland the past few years. Police flooding the street to discourage that sort of behavior, arresting people who engage in it, and dispersing large unruly mobs is sufficient for me. As I mentioned, I don't think police brutality and departures from the legal process should be acceptable responses.

Your proposed sterner response is ordinary police violence and greater police numbers? That's both hilariously underwhelming and practically impossible. Where is Portland going to get more cops? Even if they did, how are they going to pick out and arrest the specific individuals in huge crowds who are breaking the law? And how are they going to disperse crowds when the brutality they're employing now doesn't work?

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Doesn’t surprise me that Trump and his cronies would try and pull some fashy bullshit like this.

[Ifreann]

Doesn’t surprise me that Trump and his cronies would try and pull some fashy bullshit like this.

On brand.

[Gormwood]

Doesn’t surprise me that Trump and his cronies would try and pull some fashy bullshit like this.

It's like making a coddled, thin skinned sociopath President was a very bad idea.

[Neutraligon]

You see footage of people being snatched off the streets and bundled into unmarked vehicles by unidentified armed men, and your judgement of this series of events is...that it's fine? Reports that the people being detained are not suspected of doing anything wrong and weren't charged with anything?

---

Homan Square. Did you not know about it?

---

Sterner response meaning what? The cops were already flooding the streets with tear gas and shooting people directly in the face with rubber bullets, what's sterner than that?

Apparently hitting the wrong people as buildings were set on fire and tagged.

No in this case the building was not on fire, nor was it being tagged. Also isn't the general rule of thumb when using gun is that if you are not sure you can hit the target you do not shoot? Oh and...aim for the center of mass, so why where they hit in head?

[Outer Sparta]

Doesn’t surprise me that Trump and his cronies would try and pull some fashy bullshit like this.

Trump administration authoritarianism at its finest.

[Greed and Death]

I hate to be the Libertarian that said I told you so but we have been complaining expanding federal police power for decades.

[Neutraligon]

Law enforcement agents aren’t targeting protesters who engaged in violence; they appear to be sweeping up random people who have exercised their rights under the First Amendment.

Like Mark Pettibone, 29, who was heading home in the early hours of Wednesday morning when, according to The Post’s Katie Shepherd, “several men in green military fatigues and generic ‘police’ patches sprang out of an unmarked gray minivan.” Pettibone was detained, searched, driven to the federal courthouse, placed in a holding cell and read his Miranda rights against self-incrimination. He declined to waive them. And then, about 90 minutes later, he was released.

“I just happened to be wearing black on a sidewalk in downtown Portland at the time,” Pettibone told Oregon Public Broadcasting. “And that apparently is grounds for detaining me.”
Lie some more uwu

Kidnappers generally dont release folks.

Doesn't matter
Here is the definition of kidnapping in Oregon
A person commits the crime of kidnapping in the second degree if, with intent to interfere substantially with another’s personal liberty, and without consent or legal authority, the person:

(a)Takes the person from one place to another; or

(b)Secretly confines the person in a place where the person is not likely to be found.

Whether they are eventually released means nothing.

[Greed and Death]

Kidnappers generally dont release folks.

Doesn't matter
Here is the definition of kidnapping in Oregon
A person commits the crime of kidnapping in the second degree if, with intent to interfere substantially with another’s personal liberty, and without consent or legal authority, the person:

(a)Takes the person from one place to another; or

(b)Secretly confines the person in a place where the person is not likely to be found.

Whether they are eventually released means nothing.

It is the legal authority bit that generally gets them off the hook.

[Neutraligon]

Doesn't matter
Here is the definition of kidnapping in Oregon
A person commits the crime of kidnapping in the second degree if, with intent to interfere substantially with another’s personal liberty, and without consent or legal authority, the person:

(a)Takes the person from one place to another; or

(b)Secretly confines the person in a place where the person is not likely to be found.

Whether they are eventually released means nothing.

It is the legal authority bit that generally gets them off the hook.

Yes, however that is being questioned in this case. Just pointing out that a kidnapping charge holds true even if the person is released.

Looked up the federal definition. https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-c ... -1201.html Under federal law if they are held for more then 24 hours "creates a rebuttable presumption that such person has been transported in interstate or foreign commerce." Meaning if people whereunlawfully seized and have not yet been released the agents might fall under federal jurisdiction in addition to having to deal with the state law.

[Andsed]

Doesn't matter
Here is the definition of kidnapping in Oregon
A person commits the crime of kidnapping in the second degree if, with intent to interfere substantially with another’s personal liberty, and without consent or legal authority, the person:

(a)Takes the person from one place to another; or

(b)Secretly confines the person in a place where the person is not likely to be found.

Whether they are eventually released means nothing.

It is the legal authority bit that generally gets them off the hook.

I mean don´t they need just cause to detain someone? Detaining someone who was not doing anything or even really related to the protests does not really have any justifiable reason. So the law enforcement that did this would be legally in the wron-- oh wait this is America and here police are basically immune to prosecution. How silly of me to forget.

[Slaver Pirates of Vaas]

at the very least you still have the 2nd amendment which suprising enough is not supported by democrats.

Though, keep in mind, you'll still be charged with murder or assault of a police officer if you attempt to use that right. The courts aren't going to let that slide even though the arrest was unjustified. Really, there's rarely any instance where you would not be punished for shooting an officer, even though they would be the aggressor.

[Greed and Death]

It is the legal authority bit that generally gets them off the hook.

Yes, however that is being questioned in this case. Just pointing out that a kidnapping charge holds true even if the person is released.

Looked up the federal definition. https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-c ... -1201.html Under federal law if they are held for more then 24 hours "creates a rebuttable presumption that such person has been transported in interstate or foreign commerce." Meaning if people whereunlawfully seized and have not yet been released the agents might fall under federal jurisdiction in addition to having to deal with the state law.

They would have to be charged under federal law because they were on duty. You also wouldn't need the interstate commerce hook to gain federal jurisdiction they are federal agents what that is the jurisdictional hook.

[Greed and Death]

It is the legal authority bit that generally gets them off the hook.

I mean don´t they need just cause to detain someone? Detaining someone who was not doing anything or even really related to the protests does not really have any justifiable reason. So the law enforcement that did this would be legally in the wron-- oh wait this is America and here police are basically immune to prosecution. How silly of me to forget.

They need probable cause, which is a fairly low standard. Its describe it as the police having "a fair probability that contraband or evidence of a crime will be found." United States v. Sokolow, 490 U.S. 1 (1989). This standard is often though of as 50%+1 but is has not been clearly defined as such in the supreme court. The problem you run into is if the officers fail to meet these standards the penalty is not declaring the arrest unlawful, it is declaring the evidence acquired during the arrest as inadmissible.

A lawsuit could be pursued against the officers and the government for false arrest but criminal charges would be unlikely.