The events in Portland & the plan to take it nationwide

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Now that the US itself is facing a marxist insurgency at home

“Marxist insurgency”.

Dude this long stopped about being police brutality. I am not judging things here. Just, as always, telling as they are.

But of course nobody likes being told the truth.

And that goes for both sides.

If it makes you happy, people didn liked when I pointed out that Trump almost got toppled by a color style-revolution in June or that the Pentagon basically defied him. Or when he was resorting to use Berkut style DoJ units on the streets of DC as last reserve. This here is just another continuation of that. And it heralds a new and quite concerning stage of development.

But who I am talking to?

You won't care.

You’re right, we don’t care about your increasingly conspiratorial takes about this being the start of some kind of civil war sparked by “””Marxists”””.

[Genivaria]

There's a right and a wrong way to go about that.

Exactly. They need to flood the streets with Feds and local law enforcement and Arrest all the rioters and end it in one fell swoop

Not sure what country you're from but there's a thing called the 1st Amendment is a thing in this country.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Defense Department says it's concerned about law enforcement dressing up in Army uniforms

Defense Secretary Mark Esper has made the Trump administration aware of his concerns with the appropriation of the US military's uniforms by law-enforcement agencies as they face off with protesters in cities like Portland, Oregon, a Pentagon spokesman said Tuesday afternoon.

"We saw this take place back in June, when there were some law enforcement that wore uniforms that make them appear military," Defense Department spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said to reporters, referencing the George Floyd protests throughout the country earlier this year.

"The secretary has a expressed a concern of this within the administration, that we want a system where people can tell the difference," he added.

The confusion became apparent after video footage and pictures showed law-enforcement officials, many of whom refused to identify themselves or the agency they were working for, wearing the US Army's camouflage uniform as they confronted demonstrators.

I can see how the military would be concerned. Thugs in their uniform make the military look bad. They might also be concerned for the safety of any military appearing in public wearing the uniform.

But they should think twice. Where did police/agents get the idea that they'd look more intimidating to the public, dressed in military uniform?

It wouldn't be the tendency of any military to shoot first, ask questions later, by any chance? American military don't do that to citizens anyway, they only do it to anyone who looks like they might be Viet Cong. Or Taliban. Or in some other way, presumed hostile due to not wearing US uniform.

If the US military cares about its reputation, swapping uniforms with police might help them both!

---

Huh. It is almost like when dealing with protests and riots this kind of heavy handed nonsense is the wrong approach.

What is even more stupid the guy in charge of NHS claims that Portland is unique in the issues being faced, so why in the world are people being sent to Chicago? Why are they being sent to other major US cities.

I am waiting for one of the residents in the nearby buildings to decide to walk to the grocery store and get black-bagged. The day that happens is the day the fed face serious issues.

How would anyone know about it? "Look at this video of feds black-bagging someone who isn't even wearing black!" ..?

Hmm. Maybe BLM need a new uniform.

[Fahran]

Justice is what we make it to be.

Executing a man for something he didn't do after imprisoning him for political reasons for several months hardly meets the standard of justice. We shouldn't look at the Republic with rose-tinted glasses. They were, in many cases, a pack of little tyrants.

For dictators and tyrants, there is no unjust death.

That's true only if you hold to the axiom for reasons that aren't strictly ethical or you adhere to utilitarianism. In any case, Primo de Rivera didn't actually hold much power beyond his own small circle. He was definitely a supporter of dictatorship and tyranny but he himself was hardly a dictator or tyrant by a conventional definition.

[Nakena]

You’re right, we don’t care about your increasingly conspiratorial takes about this being the start of some kind of civil war sparked by “””Marxists”””.

You care enough to actually read through several pages of the thread and respond to a post that is several pages ago. Most people don't care to make that effort to read through entire threads. Which, I know, is also how you came across that other post that was subject of the little TG exchange we had a while ago.

But you don't care to actually respond to the other posts I made but enough to take things out of context, because that way I do fit better the imagintion you have created of me.

[Bear Stearns]

It was Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera. He wasn't exactly a pleasant man but his execution was unjust.

Justice is what we make it to be.
For dictators and tyrants, there is no unjust death.

Cool. I'm going to to decide you are a dictator and/or tyrant and kill you. Because justice is what I make it to be.

[Fahran]

Trump is a Nazi

Given the commentary provided by our resident fascists on Trump of late, I have a strong suspicion that he's actually not.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Thank the lord. These Commie Democrats have failed there citizens and let anarchists and communists take over our cities. It's the government's job to protect it's people from danger and preserve law and order. The Local and State Governments have failed, so now it's the Federal Government's responsibility to restore order and protect it's Citizenry.

The Democrats aren't communist (but I wish they were), police brutality is an issue that should have been addressed by the federal government long ago. If it's the government's job to preserve law and order, why don't they do something about the massive systemic problems in law enforcement?

Kidnapping people off the streets is just totalitarian and immoral. It's not gonna solve anything.

Trump is a Nazi

Not exactly, but there's a whole lot of overlap.

[Fahran]

Exactly. They need to flood the streets with Feds and local law enforcement and Arrest all the rioters and end it in one fell swoop

You cannot bring charges against people who haven't committed crimes so detaining protestors and passers-by temporarily doesn't really do much to address the social disorder occurring in Portland. Mind you, people caught looting, assaulting people, or trying to set government buildings on fire should be arrested but we haven't really reached the level where we need to call out the national guard, impose a curfew, or declare martial law. It'd just be nice if local governments did their job and Trump stopped overreacting.

[Fahran]

American conservatives loooooove authoritarianism.

I wish.

It'd make getting them to adhere to necessary medical policies a lot easier.

[Adamede]

Exactly. They need to flood the streets with Feds and local law enforcement and Arrest all the rioters and end it in one fell swoop

You cannot bring charges against people who haven't committed crimes so detaining protestors and passers-by temporarily doesn't really do much to address the social disorder occurring in Portland. Mind you, people caught looting, assaulting people, or trying to set government buildings on fire should be arrested but we haven't really reached the level where we need to call out the national guard, impose a curfew, or declare martial law. It'd just be nice if local governments did their job and Trump stopped overreacting.

But that'd be too reasonable.

[Bear Stearns]

Exactly. They need to flood the streets with Feds and local law enforcement and Arrest all the rioters and end it in one fell swoop

American conservatives loooooove authoritarianism.

Imagine if they actually did...

Don't be a tease.

[Genivaria]

American conservatives loooooove authoritarianism.

I wish.

It'd make getting them to adhere to necessary medical policies a lot easier.

It's more accurate to say that Trump supporters (not necessarily conservatives) love authoritarianism as long as it doesn't apply to them.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Exactly. They need to flood the streets with Feds and local law enforcement and Arrest all the rioters and end it in one fell swoop

American conservatives loooooove authoritarianism.

Only against those that don't follow the path they do. Being told to wear a mask is somehow terrible and oppressive but abducting people is perfectly okay

[Fahran]

It's more accurate to say that Trump supporters (not necessarily conservatives) love authoritarianism as long as it doesn't apply to them.

That's most people these days in all honesty. We make rationalizations for our preferred brands of authoritarianism, usually appealing to public safety or the common good, but a lot of people are surprisingly open to using government violence or corporate power to enforce particular policies and mores so long as they like those policies and mores. These people believe Portland's anarchists, communists, and socialists are a bigger threat to social order than they are and probably aren't too keen on the stories they've heard about people losing their livelihoods and getting roughed up in the riots. So they make excuses for this.

[Picairn]

That's most people these days in all honesty. We make rationalizations for our preferred brands of authoritarianism, usually appealing to public safety or the common good, but a lot of people are surprisingly open to using government violence or corporate power to enforce particular policies and mores so long as they like those policies and mores.

I think you just hit both sides with that swing.

[Fahran]

I think you just hit both sides with that swing.

I'm probably one of the more openly authoritarian people on this site who isn't a fascist or socialist in all honesty so it wasn't really meant as a bully. I just don't think accusing someone of authoritarianism is as insulting as folks make it out to be, at least not until they qualify precisely why it is bad. In Trump's case, the issue is that these policies are unjust, not conducive to social order or public respect for important institutions, not adherent to the precepts and spirit of constitutional law, contrary to regional governance, poorly considered and executed, etc.

[Neutraligon]

Shock and amazement we got another large loud protest outside the justice center.

[Fahran]

Shock and amazement we got another large loud protest outside the justice center.

Stay safe if you're out and about.

[Purpelia]

To the OP. This is not an insult. You need psychiatric help.

Who the fuck named you our resident mental health expert?

It does not take an expert to see that the OP seems quite distraught and frightened to the point where it seems to be effecting his well being negatively in its own right. I just don't enjoy watching people suffer I guess.

To the OP. This is not an insult. You need psychiatric help. Get off a stupid internet forum full of angsty teens and generally internet people and get your self some help. This I say honestly and with the best of intentions.

Thank you for your concern, I appreciate it. That said, I do have a therapist I see regularly, although he prefers to keep political talk to a minimum.

As for my reasoning for posting it in the first place, see the quote below, as an example:

In that case my advice would be to not get your self embroiled too much in thinking about this. Instead spend your time and energy on something to distract you that you enjoy. There is simply no point in causing your self more mental anguish than you have to. Worse comes to worst and your nightmares come true, as incredibly unlikely that is to happen, you at least want to say you used the time you had left wisely instead of having wasted it agonizing over the end. Either way, if you choose to take my advice or not, I wish you the best.

[Kowani]

Justice is what we make it to be.

Executing a man for something he didn't do after imprisoning him for political reasons for several months hardly meets the standard of justice.

...You realize Primo de Rivera died of diabetes, right?

We shouldn't look at the Republic with rose-tinted glasses. They were, in many cases, a pack of little tyrants.

There is no immediate liberation from tyranny, no.

For dictators and tyrants, there is no unjust death.

That's true only if you hold to the axiom for reasons that aren't strictly ethical or you adhere to utilitarianism.

I don’t know why people keep assuming me to hold a conventional view of ethics.

In any case, Primo de Rivera didn't actually hold much power beyond his own small circle. He was definitely a supporter of dictatorship and tyranny but he himself was hardly a dictator or tyrant by a conventional definition.

It’s true in the tautological sense, but nothing beyond that.
He was most definitely a dictator and a tyrant.

[Fahran]

...You realize Primo de Rivera died of diabetes, right?

You're thinking of the wrong Primo de Rivera. This isn't Miguel. This is Jose Antonio, his eldest son. He was arrested for illegal ownership of a firearm in Madrid, at a time when every politically active person had a firearm, and was later charged with conspiring with Emilio Mola, something that would have been impossible given the timing of Mola's attempted coup. He was convicted by a kangaroo court that suggested commuting his sentence to life imprisonment, which the Republican government refused to countenance.

There is no immediate liberation from tyranny, no.

What do you mean?

I don’t know why people keep assuming me to hold a conventional view of ethics.

I know. But your views seem to have been changing a little bit the last couple months. I'm trying to keep pace and keep you figured out.

[Kowani]

...You realize Primo de Rivera died of diabetes, right?

You're thinking of the wrong Primo de Rivera. This isn't Miguel. This is Jose Antonio, his eldest son.

Ohhh. Tía, a tip going forward. You say Primo de Rivera, everyone thinks Miguel. You say José Antonio, we know who you mean.

He was arrested for illegal ownership of a firearm in Madrid, at a time when every politically active person had a firearm, and was later charged with conspiring with Emilio Mola, something that would have been impossible given the timing of Mola's attempted coup. He was convicted by a kangaroo court that suggested commuting his sentence to life imprisonment, which the Republican government refused to countenance.

I don’t consider it impossible, since it’s entirely possible they maintained clandestine contact while in prison, but I also recognize that the court was decided from the beginning.
Sham trials are bad.

There is no immediate liberation from tyranny, no.

What do you mean?

When a despotism ends, the interim government will not be libertarian, for it most be on constant watch for the supporters of the Old Regime. Rather, it will serve as a transition, placing the building blocks of institutional governance, while maintaining a former hand than perhaps its principles would suggest.
Such transitions can easily go wrong.

I don’t know why people keep assuming me to hold a conventional view of ethics.

I know. But your views seem to have been changing a little bit the last couple months. I'm trying to keep pace and keep you figured out.

If it makes you feel better, I’m doing the same.

[Slaughter None]

Who the fuck named you our resident mental health expert?

It does not take an expert to see that the OP seems quite distraught and frightened to the point where it seems to be effecting his well being negatively in its own right. I just don't enjoy watching people suffer I guess.

Thank you for your concern, I appreciate it. That said, I do have a therapist I see regularly, although he prefers to keep political talk to a minimum.

As for my reasoning for posting it in the first place, see the quote below, as an example:

In that case my advice would be to not get your self embroiled too much in thinking about this. Instead spend your time and energy on something to distract you that you enjoy. There is simply no point in causing your self more mental anguish than you have to. Worse comes to worst and your nightmares come true, as incredibly unlikely that is to happen, you at least want to say you used the time you had left wisely instead of having wasted it agonizing over the end. Either way, if you choose to take my advice or not, I wish you the best.

This is the definition of good advice.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

It does not take an expert to see that the OP seems quite distraught and frightened to the point where it seems to be effecting his well being negatively in its own right. I just don't enjoy watching people suffer I guess.


In that case my advice would be to not get your self embroiled too much in thinking about this. Instead spend your time and energy on something to distract you that you enjoy. There is simply no point in causing your self more mental anguish than you have to. Worse comes to worst and your nightmares come true, as incredibly unlikely that is to happen, you at least want to say you used the time you had left wisely instead of having wasted it agonizing over the end. Either way, if you choose to take my advice or not, I wish you the best.

This is the definition of good advice.

It is extremely dangerous to give advice to people you don't know personally. Sometimes they take your advice with too much gusto, or they may do the exact opposite of what you advised.

That said, the take time off from worrying about the world, and do something you enjoy, part of the advice won't do any harm.