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The events in Portland & the plan to take it nationwide

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Neanderthaland
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6401
Founded: Sep 10, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Neanderthaland » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:16 pm

This is unambiguously bad.

It would be nice if people could discuss that without resorting to hyperbole.
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The Plutonian Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 929
Founded: Nov 15, 2004
Libertarian Police State

Postby The Plutonian Empire » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:16 pm

Slaughter None wrote:
The Plutonian Empire wrote:
Kind of hard to take advantage of 2A and revolt if one has been thoroughly brainwashed into rooting for the very government that's begun oppressing people it doesn't like.

Have you seen the scene on the scenes. Are you going to seriously support these anarchists? And if anybody is brainwashed here it's you as I see the footage and then judge for myself.


I'm pretty sure the "violent anarchists" are in fact, neo-Nazis infiltrating peaceful protests in order to cause mischief and to deliberately make the peaceful protestors look bad in front of the government.

https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far- ... remacists/

The protests that have torn through the United States, following the murder of George Floyd at the hands of Minnesota police officers, shift the emphasis in real time videos broadcast nationally. The images challenge our beliefs about who is really protesting and for what reason.

Minnesota Governor Tim Walz echoed this sentiment in a press conference on Saturday alleging that the demonstrations that caused so much damage included provocateurs, likely from outside the area. State officials said around 80 percent of those arrested in the Twin Cities on Friday were from outside Minnesota. Former FBI agent and CNN commentator, Josh Campbell wrote, that Minnesota “authorities have been monitoring alleged criminals online, including postings by suspected white supremacists trying to incite violence.”

Before the rioting started in Washington DC, Brooklyn, Denver, Atlanta, and other cities, allegations emerged that undercover police officers might be to blame for some of the worst commercial destruction in Minneapolis. Experts on political violence (and not just Qanon conspiracy theorists) shared stories on social media that the May 27 looting and arson at AutoZone by an unidentified man in a gas mask carrying an open umbrella (dubbed #umbrellaman) was not necessarily a protester but could be an agent provocateur or member of the police. In video posted to YouTube, while this man smashed windows with a hammer, protesters at the scene accused him of being an outsider and began to film him.
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Torisakia
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Posts: 15136
Founded: Jun 04, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Torisakia » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:16 pm

Slaughter None wrote:
Torisakia wrote:You're saying that as if there are other political sides out there that are civilized. I'm aware it's only a small minority, but it's not just the Democrats you know.

This not the time to point fingers let's first remove the violence in the streets and then we can start arguing, as I think we can all agree that violence whether of the police or the rioters is bad.

Was just trying to provide a bigger picture. I'm pretty neutral in all this so I'm not really pointing fingers at one specific group. I'm pointing fingers at everyone.
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Kyundao
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Posts: 217
Founded: Jan 02, 2020
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Kyundao » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:17 pm

Torisakia wrote:
Kyundao wrote:If you guys thought the leftist radicals in Democrat-run cities are violent enough, this is really going to make them turn into even worse people (seriously, the Democrat-run cities are just as bad as Nazi Germany). I'm sorry, but it's pretty obvious we're headed for a civil war if the American left doesn't act civilized for once.

You're saying that as if there are other political sides out there that are civilized. I'm aware it's only a small minority, but it's not just the Democrats you know.


Unfortunately you're not wrong when you say that. A lot of ordinary folks - registered Republicans included - are doing nothing to defend their own streets. It's supremely shameful and frankly dishonorable.

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Rusozak
Minister
 
Posts: 2410
Founded: Jun 14, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rusozak » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:19 pm

Kyundao wrote:If you guys thought the leftist radicals in Democrat-run cities are violent enough, this is really going to make them turn into even worse people (seriously, the Democrat-run cities are just as bad as Nazi Germany). I'm sorry, but it's pretty obvious we're headed for a civil war if the American left doesn't act civilized for once.


Hi, I'm in Chicago. Can you point me to the nearest concentration camp or gestapo office? I can't seem to find any.
NOTE: This nation's government style, policies, and opinions in roleplay or forum 7 does not represent my true beliefs. It is purely for the enjoyment of the game.

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Soiled fruit roll ups
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Posts: 251
Founded: Jun 25, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Soiled fruit roll ups » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:20 pm

The Plutonian Empire wrote:
Slaughter None wrote:Have you seen the scene on the scenes. Are you going to seriously support these anarchists? And if anybody is brainwashed here it's you as I see the footage and then judge for myself.


I'm pretty sure the "violent anarchists" are in fact, neo-Nazis infiltrating peaceful protests in order to cause mischief and to deliberately make the peaceful protestors look bad in front of the government.

https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far- ... remacists/

The protests that have torn through the United States, following the murder of George Floyd at the hands of Minnesota police officers, shift the emphasis in real time videos broadcast nationally. The images challenge our beliefs about who is really protesting and for what reason.

Minnesota Governor Tim Walz echoed this sentiment in a press conference on Saturday alleging that the demonstrations that caused so much damage included provocateurs, likely from outside the area. State officials said around 80 percent of those arrested in the Twin Cities on Friday were from outside Minnesota. Former FBI agent and CNN commentator, Josh Campbell wrote, that Minnesota “authorities have been monitoring alleged criminals online, including postings by suspected white supremacists trying to incite violence.”

Before the rioting started in Washington DC, Brooklyn, Denver, Atlanta, and other cities, allegations emerged that undercover police officers might be to blame for some of the worst commercial destruction in Minneapolis. Experts on political violence (and not just Qanon conspiracy theorists) shared stories on social media that the May 27 looting and arson at AutoZone by an unidentified man in a gas mask carrying an open umbrella (dubbed #umbrellaman) was not necessarily a protester but could be an agent provocateur or member of the police. In video posted to YouTube, while this man smashed windows with a hammer, protesters at the scene accused him of being an outsider and began to film him.


Hahahahahahahahaha

Neo nazis
Last edited by Soiled fruit roll ups on Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Torisakia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15136
Founded: Jun 04, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Torisakia » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:20 pm

Kyundao wrote:
Torisakia wrote:You're saying that as if there are other political sides out there that are civilized. I'm aware it's only a small minority, but it's not just the Democrats you know.


Unfortunately you're not wrong when you say that. A lot of ordinary folks - registered Republicans included - are doing nothing to defend their own streets. It's supremely shameful and frankly dishonorable.

To me, it's more of a dick measuring contest of who can be more violent rather than trying to actually fix anything. Again those kinds of people are a small minority, but they get the most publicity.
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Slaughter None
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 421
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Slaughter None » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:21 pm

The Plutonian Empire wrote:
Slaughter None wrote:Have you seen the scene on the scenes. Are you going to seriously support these anarchists? And if anybody is brainwashed here it's you as I see the footage and then judge for myself.


I'm pretty sure the "violent anarchists" are in fact, neo-Nazis infiltrating peaceful protests in order to cause mischief and to deliberately make the peaceful protestors look bad in front of the government.

https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far- ... remacists/

The protests that have torn through the United States, following the murder of George Floyd at the hands of Minnesota police officers, shift the emphasis in real time videos broadcast nationally. The images challenge our beliefs about who is really protesting and for what reason.

Minnesota Governor Tim Walz echoed this sentiment in a press conference on Saturday alleging that the demonstrations that caused so much damage included provocateurs, likely from outside the area. State officials said around 80 percent of those arrested in the Twin Cities on Friday were from outside Minnesota. Former FBI agent and CNN commentator, Josh Campbell wrote, that Minnesota “authorities have been monitoring alleged criminals online, including postings by suspected white supremacists trying to incite violence.”

Before the rioting started in Washington DC, Brooklyn, Denver, Atlanta, and other cities, allegations emerged that undercover police officers might be to blame for some of the worst commercial destruction in Minneapolis. Experts on political violence (and not just Qanon conspiracy theorists) shared stories on social media that the May 27 looting and arson at AutoZone by an unidentified man in a gas mask carrying an open umbrella (dubbed #umbrellaman) was not necessarily a protester but could be an agent provocateur or member of the police. In video posted to YouTube, while this man smashed windows with a hammer, protesters at the scene accused him of being an outsider and began to film him.

Listen I really don't think that white supremacists would like to associate themselves with "Black lives matter" it is really only Antifa and BLM causing rioter destruction in the street.
Last edited by Slaughter None on Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Slaughter None
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 421
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Slaughter None » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:23 pm

Rusozak wrote:
Kyundao wrote:If you guys thought the leftist radicals in Democrat-run cities are violent enough, this is really going to make them turn into even worse people (seriously, the Democrat-run cities are just as bad as Nazi Germany). I'm sorry, but it's pretty obvious we're headed for a civil war if the American left doesn't act civilized for once.


Hi, I'm in Chicago. Can you point me to the nearest concentration camp or gestapo office? I can't seem to find any.

That's what we are trying to say that America is not becoming a fascist state only that peace is being restored.

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Necroghastia
Minister
 
Posts: 3228
Founded: May 11, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:24 pm

Slaughter None wrote:
Rusozak wrote:
Hi, I'm in Chicago. Can you point me to the nearest concentration camp or gestapo office? I can't seem to find any.

That's what we are trying to say that America is not becoming a fascist state only that peace is being restored.

How is kidnapping innocent people restoring peace?
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Kyundao
Envoy
 
Posts: 217
Founded: Jan 02, 2020
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Kyundao » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:26 pm

Rusozak wrote:
Kyundao wrote:If you guys thought the leftist radicals in Democrat-run cities are violent enough, this is really going to make them turn into even worse people (seriously, the Democrat-run cities are just as bad as Nazi Germany). I'm sorry, but it's pretty obvious we're headed for a civil war if the American left doesn't act civilized for once.


Hi, I'm in Chicago. Can you point me to the nearest concentration camp or gestapo office? I can't seem to find any.


When I say Democrat-run cities are just as bad as Nazi Germany, I'm talking things like the infamous kristallnacht, where the Nazis vandalized and set fire to Jewish-owned businesses - even back in those days Jews were a minority in Germany. You know who's also vandalizing and setting minority-owned businesses on fire? Mostly white members of BLM and mostly white anarchists, and this is in those democrat-run cities I mentioned earlier.

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Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14733
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:26 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Slaughter None wrote:That's what we are trying to say that America is not becoming a fascist state only that peace is being restored.

How is kidnapping innocent people restoring peace?

It's Restoring Peace because it's happening to BLM and Antifa protestors. If it started happening to anti-maskers or MAGAs then they'd be outraged faster than you can say "Jade Helm".
Last edited by Gormwood on Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Plutonian Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 929
Founded: Nov 15, 2004
Libertarian Police State

Postby The Plutonian Empire » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:26 pm

Slaughter None wrote:
The Plutonian Empire wrote:
I'm pretty sure the "violent anarchists" are in fact, neo-Nazis infiltrating peaceful protests in order to cause mischief and to deliberately make the peaceful protestors look bad in front of the government.

https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far- ... remacists/


Listen I really don't think that white supremacists would like to associate themselves with "Black lives matter" it is really only Antifa and BLM causing rioter destruction in the street.


There's a difference between "association" and "infiltration."
Last edited by The Plutonian Empire on Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rusozak
Minister
 
Posts: 2410
Founded: Jun 14, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rusozak » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:28 pm

Slaughter None wrote:
Rusozak wrote:
Hi, I'm in Chicago. Can you point me to the nearest concentration camp or gestapo office? I can't seem to find any.

That's what we are trying to say that America is not becoming a fascist state only that peace is being restored.


And I'm saying it's an absurd comparison. And even if it weren't absurd to compare a U.S. city to Nazi Germany because it's not ruled by your preferred party, it's these federal agents and right wing reaction making it that way.
NOTE: This nation's government style, policies, and opinions in roleplay or forum 7 does not represent my true beliefs. It is purely for the enjoyment of the game.

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Soiled fruit roll ups
Envoy
 
Posts: 251
Founded: Jun 25, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Soiled fruit roll ups » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:28 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Slaughter None wrote:That's what we are trying to say that America is not becoming a fascist state only that peace is being restored.

How is kidnapping innocent people restoring peace?


How are violent criminals peaceful protestors?
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Shazbotdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8336
Founded: Sep 28, 2004
Anarchy

Postby Shazbotdom » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:29 pm

Soiled fruit roll ups wrote:
The Plutonian Empire wrote:
I'm pretty sure the "violent anarchists" are in fact, neo-Nazis infiltrating peaceful protests in order to cause mischief and to deliberately make the peaceful protestors look bad in front of the government.

https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far- ... remacists/



Hahahahahahahahaha

Neo nazis


Funny thing is that groups tied to the Proud Boys, a far right-wing neo-nazi group, have posted online that they are working to ensure a Race War is instigated. And many of the people that have been seen and recorded destroying businesses have been, in fact, white.

Hell, they attempted that here in New Orleans. Several of the people who were caught on video defacing statues here have been arrested and their ID's were from out of state and they were white.

So yeah, I honestly think that these situations are being instigated by out of state agitators that are, in my opinion, tied to these groups.
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Necroghastia
Minister
 
Posts: 3228
Founded: May 11, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:31 pm

Soiled fruit roll ups wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:How is kidnapping innocent people restoring peace?


How are violent criminals peaceful protestors?

The feds aren't arresting themselves. If you had actually bothered to read the articles about this, including the one I replied to you with earlier, you would be aware they aren't even limiting this to protestors.
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Soiled fruit roll ups
Envoy
 
Posts: 251
Founded: Jun 25, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Soiled fruit roll ups » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:33 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Soiled fruit roll ups wrote:
How are violent criminals peaceful protestors?

The feds aren't arresting themselves. If you had actually bothered to read the articles about this, including the one I replied to you with earlier, you would be aware they aren't even limiting this to protestors.


I did, so I know that they let them go soon after. Totally legal.
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Tourion
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 24
Founded: May 29, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tourion » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:33 pm

The Plutonian Empire wrote:Call me overly paranoid, but...

The events in portland have me terrified for my life, even more so now that the US gov has plans to go nationwide and are not apologizing, and are singling out Democrat-controlled regions. I've been posting on all my social media cryptic goodbyes, because I am aware of the historical precedent: Nazi Germany's Gestapo. They targeted the disabled and the gays, in addition to Jews and political opponents

As someone who is disabled and bisexual (realized it in 2013), and who likes to double checks history now and then, I am not expecting to make it through this, knowing the writing's been on the wall since 2016, at least for me.

Here's hoping I'm wrong :(

Relevant news bits:

https://www.motherjones.com/anti-racism ... your-town/

The Trump administration says the Department of Homeland Security can occupy downtown Portland, tear gas protesters, and arrest people on city streets with little explanation. Critics say that’s fascist. DHS says it’s a model to take on the road.

“With as much lawbreaking is going on, we’re seeking to prosecute as many people as are breaking the law as it relates to federal jurisdiction,” acting Homeland Security Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli told NPR on Friday. “That’s not always happening with respect to local jurisdiction and local offenses. But, you know, this is a posture we intend to continue not just in Portland but in any of the facilities that we’re responsible for around the country.”

In Portland, DHS, defying the express wishes of elected officials, appears to be using the fig leaf of defending federal property to pursue President Donald Trump’s wish to forcibly suppress unrest. In what critics call clearly unconstitutional behavior, camouflage-clad officers—Mother Jones reported on Friday that they are Border Patrol agents—have arrested protesters, allegedly without identifying or explaining themselves. Federal officers have used tear gas and shot projectiles from paintball guns at protesters.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-glob ... SKCN24L1I1

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump on Monday said he would send law enforcement to more U.S. cities, as a federal crackdown on anti-racism protests in Oregon with unmarked cars and unidentified forces angered people across the country.

Trump, a Republican, cited New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore and Oakland, California, as places to send federal agents, noting the cities’ mayors were “liberal Democrats.” Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot frequently blasts Trump on Twitter.

“We’re sending law enforcement,” Trump told reporters at the White House. “We can’t let this happen to the cities.”

State and local leaders in Oregon, as well as members of Congress, have called for Trump to remove Department of Homeland Security secret police forces from Portland, Oregon, after videos showed unidentified federal personnel rounding up people and whisking them away in black minivans.


Of course, this is cause for immediate concern but it's a localized event in the immediate. Truth is, the US government has never halted using coercive tactics against innocents. So in a way should we really be elevated to your level of concern that this is the 1933 moment?

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Slaughter None
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 421
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Slaughter None » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:34 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:How is kidnapping innocent people restoring peace?

It's Restoring Peace because it's happening to BLM and Antifa protestors. If it started happening to anti-maskers or MAGAs then they'd be outraged faster than you can say "Jade Helm".

Protesting is fine Opening lockdown protests were not violent the blm protests became violent and they are not kidnapping people they are arresting criminals and do you have any proof that they are innocent?
Last edited by Slaughter None on Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Soiled fruit roll ups
Envoy
 
Posts: 251
Founded: Jun 25, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Soiled fruit roll ups » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:35 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Soiled fruit roll ups wrote:
How are violent criminals peaceful protestors?

The feds aren't arresting themselves. If you had actually bothered to read the articles about this, including the one I replied to you with earlier, you would be aware they aren't even limiting this to protestors.


I did, so I know that they let them go soon after. Totally legal.
JAGERA/TURRBULL/YEERONGPAN
FIRST NATION AUSTRALIAN - ABORIGINAL

The United States is also a one party system but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.- Julius Nyerere.

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Necroghastia
Minister
 
Posts: 3228
Founded: May 11, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:36 pm

Slaughter None wrote:
Gormwood wrote:It's Restoring Peace because it's happening to BLM and Antifa protestors. If it started happening to anti-maskers or MAGAs then they'd be outraged faster than you can say "Jade Helm".

Protesting is fine Opening lockdown protests were not violent the blm protests became violent and they are not kidnapping people they are arresting criminals and do you have any proof that they are innocent?

Innocent until proven guilty is the law of the land in America. Do you have proof these people are guilty of anything at all?
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User avatar
Slaughter None
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 421
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Slaughter None » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:36 pm

Tourion wrote:
The Plutonian Empire wrote:Call me overly paranoid, but...

The events in portland have me terrified for my life, even more so now that the US gov has plans to go nationwide and are not apologizing, and are singling out Democrat-controlled regions. I've been posting on all my social media cryptic goodbyes, because I am aware of the historical precedent: Nazi Germany's Gestapo. They targeted the disabled and the gays, in addition to Jews and political opponents

As someone who is disabled and bisexual (realized it in 2013), and who likes to double checks history now and then, I am not expecting to make it through this, knowing the writing's been on the wall since 2016, at least for me.

Here's hoping I'm wrong :(

Relevant news bits:

https://www.motherjones.com/anti-racism ... your-town/




https://www.reuters.com/article/us-glob ... SKCN24L1I1



Of course, this is cause for immediate concern but it's a localized event in the immediate. Truth is, the US government has never halted using coercive tactics against innocents. So in a way should we really be elevated to your level of concern that this is the 1933 moment?

I mean we can't really say anything if you believe such crackpot conspiracy theories.

User avatar
Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14733
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:37 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Slaughter None wrote:Protesting is fine Opening lockdown protests were not violent the blm protests became violent and they are not kidnapping people they are arresting criminals and do you have any proof that they are innocent?

Innocent until proven guilty is the law of the land in America. Do you have proof these people are guilty of anything at all?

Guilt By Association, duh.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
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Soiled fruit roll ups
Envoy
 
Posts: 251
Founded: Jun 25, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Soiled fruit roll ups » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:38 pm

Shazbotdom wrote:
Soiled fruit roll ups wrote:
Hahahahahahahahaha

Neo nazis


Funny thing is that groups tied to the Proud Boys, a far right-wing neo-nazi group, have posted online that they are working to ensure a Race War is instigated. And many of the people that have been seen and recorded destroying businesses have been, in fact, white.

Hell, they attempted that here in New Orleans. Several of the people who were caught on video defacing statues here have been arrested and their ID's were from out of state and they were white.

So yeah, I honestly think that these situations are being instigated by out of state agitators that are, in my opinion, tied to these groups.


Wait, are you saying everyone who is white is part of a neo nazi group?
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The United States is also a one party system but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.- Julius Nyerere.

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