Coronavirus Thread V: A Shot in the Arm (READ OP)

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Just because you want to hear something, doesn't mean it should be said.

What do you think happens if they say it will happen and then it doesn't?
They have to be careful with these things, cause once their credibility takes a hit, because they were premature, it gets very difficult for people to listen to them.

You have to give people hope. In Germany there is no plan other than lockdown and people are growing increasingly frustrated and defiant.

The plan Lumen is to end the lockdown either when case numbers drop to a reasonable number or enough people are vaccinated. I doubt they'll be locked down for even another month.

[San Lumen]

You have to give people hope. In Germany there is no plan other than lockdown and people are growing increasingly frustrated and defiant.

The plan Lumen is to end the lockdown either when case numbers drop to a reasonable number or enough people are vaccinated. I doubt they'll be locked down for even another month.

Except Germany screwed up the purchase of vaccines badly. Has been doing it at a snail’s pace and announced the lockdown likely be extended again soon. It’s been four months.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

The plan Lumen is to end the lockdown either when case numbers drop to a reasonable number or enough people are vaccinated. I doubt they'll be locked down for even another month.

Except Germany screwed up the purchase of vaccines badly. Has been doing it at a snail’s pace and announced the lockdown likely be extended again soon. It’s been four months.

How locked down are they? Italy lockdown or Michigan in December of 2020?

[San Lumen]

Except Germany screwed up the purchase of vaccines badly. Has been doing it at a snail’s pace and announced the lockdown likely be extended again soon. It’s been four months.

How locked down are they? Italy lockdown or Michigan in December of 2020?

From what I’ve heard the country is pretty much closed. Little is open beyond essential business

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

With all the hysteria about Commdore Perry'ing the world I can't wait until the next ice age and I don't even know if I should be sarcastic about that or not.

[Juristonia]

You have to give people hope. In Germany there is no plan other than lockdown and people are growing increasingly frustrated and defiant.

I'll repeat, since you apparently replied to something without actually addressing the thing you're replying to again.

Just because you want to hear something, doesn't mean it should be said.

What do you think happens if they say it will happen and then it doesn't?
They have to be careful with these things, cause once their credibility takes a hit, because they were premature, it gets very difficult for people to listen to them.

They have to stick with the facts, Lumen. They can't just toss broad statements out there because it gives you the warm and fuzzies.

[CoraSpia]

You have to give people hope. In Germany there is no plan other than lockdown and people are growing increasingly frustrated and defiant.

I'll repeat, since you apparently replied to something without actually addressing the thing you're replying to again.

Just because you want to hear something, doesn't mean it should be said.

What do you think happens if they say it will happen and then it doesn't?
They have to be careful with these things, cause once their credibility takes a hit, because they were premature, it gets very difficult for people to listen to them.

They have to stick with the facts, Lumen. They can't just toss broad statements out there because it gives you the warm and fuzzies.

What they should do is:

Pick a date, open up, and don't close down again.

[Picairn]

Prove that longstanding political dissidents in China are "forced" into confessing to some random "crimes" on national television. Prove they've been tortured. Prove the Malaysian government hasn't been unduly pressured into purchasing Sinovac and jamming it into the arms of Malaysians against their will. Neither of us can because that's how the CCP operates. The only thing we can do is infer. You don't think it's even slightly suspicious that Tedros had absolutely nothing critical to say about China's "successful" response to "contain" the coronavirus pandemic? Not even just a tiny bit?

I don't believe that the Malaysian government has been pressured into buying Sinovac. They have been stocking up on Pfizer, AstraZeneca and Sputnik V as well, so I can infer that Malaysia just wants to procure as many vaccine doses as possible. In fact they ordered Pfizer the most (32 million doses), so does this mean that the US pressured Malaysia into buying? https://my.asiatatler.com/life/vaccines ... -sputnik-v

You know why Tedros and the WHO praised China's response early on? It was to coax China into releasing the data, including the virus's genetic code. A smartly diplomatic approach, even if it cost them temporary US pullout.

This may be true of the ordinary rank-and-file scientists who work under the WHO umbrella, but is it true of Tedros and some of the key figures at the top? You honestly believe Tedros is trying to "fix things"? I think he's a disingenuous scumbag who should step down.

Ultimately, unproven guesses of a person's motive is irrelevant. Judging by the actions of the WHO trying to mitigate the impacts of geographic naming of diseases, I can say that they are doing baby steps. First the guidelines, and now this. That's good.

The U.S. CDC uses the term Japanese encephalitis. Americans have complete control over the CDC's guidelines and the content of their K-12 education system. What's stopping them? Could it be that nobody cares about the right of Japanese people to be free from racism? What have they ever done to us over the past *checks notes* 76 years?

Probably because 1) The name sticks and has entered public usage (1871 to now is a loooong time), and 2) The disease has been largely forgotten in the West, since the map of countries at risk of it shows entirely East, South East and South Asian countries. In the Western world Japanese encephalitis is probably non-existent.

But it would be wrong to say the CDC doesn't care about renaming efforts, because the CDC does care. After all, they are the ones who changed "gay-related immune deficiency" into AIDS. Imagine if we use the former today. https://www.avert.org/professionals/his ... s/overview

I was referring to an older strain of Hong Kong Flu, and I was addressing the WHO and national governments, not you. Again, what's stopping the CDC, the NHS, and all of these other institutions from enacting the necessary reforms?

Nilokeras quoted some articles about scientists advocating for renaming Lyme disease, for example. Swine flu is referred to as A/H1N1, and HK Flu is called A/H3N2. Some alternative names for old diseases already exist, the problem is victim-blaming made by busybodies seeking someone/something to pin all the blame on they/it. 300,000 pigs were slaughtered in Egypt in the A/H1N1 pandemic of 2009 because of the incorrect "swine flu" name. https://aeon.co/essays/disease-naming-m ... d-politics

Racism existed long before the term "China virus" did. If the bigots don't call Asian people "China virus", they will call them by another slur. Asians are going to be sworn at, spat at, assaulted, and murdered in broad daylight regardless.

https://youtu.be/yts2F44RqFw

Just because we can't completely and utterly eradicate a bane of human existence doesn't mean that we shouldn't minimize the negative effects to the smallest proportion possible. Might as well legalize murder since we'll never truly eradicate it, right?

Superficially banning the term "China virus" is not going to solve the problem. If the same racists and bigots begin referring to Asian people as "CCP virus", would you ban that as well? Would you regard CCP virus as a racist name? And wouldn't that be yet another diplomatic coup for Beijing? Where does it end? Tell me where it ends because I see no end in sight for the woke machine.

The term CCP is inherently political, not geographic, and thus doesn't give off a racially charged vibe unlike "China virus" in of itself, I think. I'll eye the person if I ever hear that in public, but I'll mostly shrug it off. Still, anyone that repeats it needlessly and endlessly in discussions like some kind of prayer, I can conclude that he is most likely a conspiracy theorist.

You may consider China virus a racist term in the American context, but in Asia, it's a term of defiance in a context where people actually have to worry about getting shot, disappeared, tortured, and harvested for their organs. Terms such as Wuhan coronavirus or Wuhan pneumonia enjoy widespread use in independent HK and Taiwanese media such as Apple Daily and Taiwan News. Are Taiwanese people racist for using such terms?

It is actually not surprising to me to see fellow Asians ready to commit racism against each other out of blind hatred, ever since I learned what the Japanese could do to Chinese and Korean civilians, what the South Koreans can do to their Northern breathren, what the Chinese can do to the Vietnamese, etc. Regardless, it ain't right. I enthusiastically support renaming efforts to avoid stigmatization against innocents.

Stop trying to cancel people over meaningless trivialities. I have as much right to hold you accountable for muzzling political dissidents in the East. I've been doing it for years and years with the long-disgraced radical Left over issues such as Islam. Betrayal is what the woke Left stands for as I explain in detail in the Syrian Civil War thread.

You won't even see me in protests, because 1) I'm not from the US (surprise!), 2) I live in a communist country (Vietnam, I stated it once or twice, search my posts), and 3) I don't have the time and energy to humiliate myself by shouting and crying and ratio-ing people on Twitter or whatever. However, I do mind when the term keeps being shoehorned into discussions, at some point it becomes a nuisance and generate racist attacks by popularizing it.

Also. not everyone lives in the United States. Stop forcing American domestic politics onto the rest of the world. You don't get to tell us what to do and you don't own the internet. This is what we call woke cultural imperialism. Your distinctly American brand of toxic divisiveness, intolerance, and outright violence of the woke BLM/Meghan Markle sort is not welcome here in Asia or even in Europe. You want to "hold me accountable" for something that's happening on the other side of the world over some posts on an obscure online forum? Good luck with that.

Actually, I don't live in the US. Regardless of my identity, "cultural imperialism" and "stop forcing your politics on us" are the go-to statements of every dictator ever to deflect from criticisms. National Sovereignty has been used to justify oppression and barbaric treatment of citizens. https://www.chinausfocus.com/foreign-po ... overeignty

As a sidenote, it is quite ironic that you ultilize National Sovereignty to shut me out of the discussion, yet wants to destroy the CCP. Isn't that forcing your politics on the Chinese people?

People can hold you accountable, yes, by keeping to debate with you over the usage of the term "China virus". Something tells me this won't be the last time this term is discussed.

And for the record, I actually prefer CCP virus very strongly to Wuhan coronavirus or China virus, but, you know, the "misinformation rule" and all that.

Is saying "Covid-19" really that painful for you?

[Picairn]

What they should do is:

Pick a date, open up, and don't close down again.

How about opening up after achieving 70% vaccination rate?

[Juristonia]

What they should do is:

Pick a date, open up, and don't close down again.

My days of being glad you're not in any position of power anywhere are certainly coming to a middle.

[San Lumen]

You have to give people hope. In Germany there is no plan other than lockdown and people are growing increasingly frustrated and defiant.

I'll repeat, since you apparently replied to something without actually addressing the thing you're replying to again.

Just because you want to hear something, doesn't mean it should be said.

What do you think happens if they say it will happen and then it doesn't?
They have to be careful with these things, cause once their credibility takes a hit, because they were premature, it gets very difficult for people to listen to them.

They have to stick with the facts, Lumen. They can't just toss broad statements out there because it gives you the warm and fuzzies.

Facts don’t pay bills, rent or expenses. Protests in Germany are growing rapidly and people are becoming increasingly defiant because there is no plan. They screwed up the vaccine purchase and rollout badly.

State governments are now at odds with the federal government and Berlin is acting out of touch. They keep this up they are going to lose the fall election badly.

[CoraSpia]

What they should do is:

Pick a date, open up, and don't close down again.

How about opening up after achieving 70% vaccination rate?

That shit takes a long time, especially if you're going for both doses. At the rate that Germany is going it'll be 2025.

[Picairn]

That shit takes a long time, especially if you're going for both doses. At the rate that Germany is going it'll be 2025.

Opening up right now carries massive risks, and I'm glad that you're not a government official.

[Juristonia]

Facts don’t pay bills, rent or expenses. Protests in Germany are growing rapidly and people are becoming increasingly defiant because there is no plan. They screwed up the vaccine purchase and rollout badly.

State governments are now at odds with the federal government and Berlin is acting out of touch. They keep this up they are going to lose the fall election badly.

I see you've suddenly become a German expert now.
Is that why you keep flat out refusing to actually address the substance of the posts you keep replying to?

[San Lumen]

Facts don’t pay bills, rent or expenses. Protests in Germany are growing rapidly and people are becoming increasingly defiant because there is no plan. They screwed up the vaccine purchase and rollout badly.

State governments are now at odds with the federal government and Berlin is acting out of touch. They keep this up they are going to lose the fall election badly.

I see you've suddenly become a German expert now.
Is that why you keep flat out refusing to actually address the substance of the posts you keep replying to?

And people are supposed to just accept a indefinite lockdown with no end in sight and a government that seems to have no regard for mental health or anyone’s livelihoods?

[CoraSpia]

I see you've suddenly become a German expert now.
Is that why you keep flat out refusing to actually address the substance of the posts you keep replying to?

And people are supposed to just accept a indefinite lockdown with no end in sight and a government that seems to have no regard for mental health or anyone’s livelihoods?

It seems so, given that Germany has only given out 9m doses of a two-dose vaccine among its nearly 84m people, and it's had 3 months to get that far. I guess they fancy a long, drawn out thing.

[Ifreann]

I see you've suddenly become a German expert now.
Is that why you keep flat out refusing to actually address the substance of the posts you keep replying to?

And people are supposed to just accept a indefinite lockdown with no end in sight and a government that seems to have no regard for mental health or anyone’s livelihoods?

Fascinating that you're making that same argument now that vaccine rollouts are underway. An indefinite lockdown now would only be a few months.

[San Lumen]

And people are supposed to just accept a indefinite lockdown with no end in sight and a government that seems to have no regard for mental health or anyone’s livelihoods?

It seems so, given that Germany has only given out 9m doses of a two-dose vaccine among its nearly 84m people, and it's had 3 months to get that far. I guess they fancy a long, drawn out thing.

I don’t think they fancy it. They screwed up royally and instead of coming up with a plan they continue the current policy expecting it to have a different outcome.

[CoraSpia]

It seems so, given that Germany has only given out 9m doses of a two-dose vaccine among its nearly 84m people, and it's had 3 months to get that far. I guess they fancy a long, drawn out thing.

I don’t think they fancy it. They screwed up royally and instead of coming up with a plan they continue the current policy expecting it to have a different outcome.

It's the governmental way. When you find out you've screwed up royally, don't learn from your mistakes when you can just double down on them.

[Rusozak]

That shit takes a long time, especially if you're going for both doses. At the rate that Germany is going it'll be 2025.

Opening up right now carries massive risks, and I'm glad that you're not a government official.

Like cutting a parachute loose after it's slowed you down but before you're close to the ground.

[CoraSpia]

And people are supposed to just accept a indefinite lockdown with no end in sight and a government that seems to have no regard for mental health or anyone’s livelihoods?

Fascinating that you're making that same argument now that vaccine rollouts are underway. An indefinite lockdown now would only be a few months.

Have you seen the figures from Germany? They're not getting better.

[Ifreann]

It seems so, given that Germany has only given out 9m doses of a two-dose vaccine among its nearly 84m people, and it's had 3 months to get that far. I guess they fancy a long, drawn out thing.

I don’t think they fancy it. They screwed up royally and instead of coming up with a plan they continue the current policy expecting it to have a different outcome.

They plan to continue vaccinating people instead of...what? Scrapping vaccinations?

[Esalia]

I see you've suddenly become a German expert now.
Is that why you keep flat out refusing to actually address the substance of the posts you keep replying to?

And people are supposed to just accept a indefinite lockdown with no end in sight and a government that seems to have no regard for mental health or anyone’s livelihoods?

How would giving people false hope help in the slightest? Especially in anywhere struggling to properly vaccinate their population and would almost certainly fail any "hey we'll get out of this by [date]" target if said target was in a couple of months?

[CoraSpia]

I don’t think they fancy it. They screwed up royally and instead of coming up with a plan they continue the current policy expecting it to have a different outcome.

They plan to continue vaccinating people instead of...what? Scrapping vaccinations?

It's fine to vaccinate people while also letting life go on.

[San Lumen]

And people are supposed to just accept a indefinite lockdown with no end in sight and a government that seems to have no regard for mental health or anyone’s livelihoods?

Fascinating that you're making that same argument now that vaccine rollouts are underway. An indefinite lockdown now would only be a few months.

that lockdown could collapse the economy. Many countries in the Americas have a reopening plan and have had an excellent vaccine rollout as a result the messaging has changed..

UK has done a great job as well.