Coronavirus Thread V: A Shot in the Arm (READ OP)

[Nobel Hobos 2]

We've interfered pretty hard with the plants and animals. And you and I are interfering with natural processes just by using electricity.

On the other hand, the states most affected would be Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Colorado and Utah. We're talking several feet of volcanic ash all over. Haha. The Northern hemisphere, and perhaps both hemispheres, would suffer a significant reduction in sunlight. Meaning crops usually grown there would fail (though a science-based global strategy could mitigate that). No biggy.

Boreholes don't need to go all the way to the magma body. Cooling down the rock containing it would have a positive effect, while of course generating some electricity from the heat extracted. How much would you be prepared for government to spend investigating the options?

This is way off topic. It would be an interesting discussion for its own thread through. Such as should humans try to prevent natural disaster?

I can't see how Tornadoes perform a positive role in nature. Helping prevent inbreeding in tumbleweeds perhaps? But OK.

[San Lumen]

This is way off topic. It would be an interesting discussion for its own thread through. Such as should humans try to prevent natural disaster?

I can't see how Tornadoes perform a positive role in nature. Helping prevent inbreeding in tumbleweeds perhaps? But OK.

Make the thread and we can discuss it.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I can't see how Tornadoes perform a positive role in nature. Helping prevent inbreeding in tumbleweeds perhaps? But OK.

Make the thread and we can discuss it.

Oh man, that was my best joke. And I get nothing from you.

[-Astoria-]

So you’re going to ignore effective lockdowns in places outside of the US? There is also the notable difference of how officials handle each lockdown.

Like which nations?

Vietnam.

[Region of Dwipantara]

The US tested 184.000 person/1M, while India has only reached 15.000/1M.

(Cry in 5000/1M)

[Region of Dwipantara]

Like which nations?

Vietnam.

To be fair, the Vietnamese state is based on Communism with Capitalist Characteristics, allowing it to enforce effective lockdowns and trackings with relative ease. They also have experience with the 2003 SARS outbreak.

[Elevanos]

It supports that America has tested far more people than any other nation, including India, which has a population of, oh, nearly four times the United States, yet has tested on a significantly lower rate than the United States population-wise, but if the https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/ ... untry=~IND is finding that about 10-20% of tests are coming back positive in India, and America has about a 5-10% testing positive chance, and there are still unconfirmed cases in America, then there could be tens of thousands of unknown India cases, and even more countries might have unconfirmed cases numbering quite high.

You chose India because it has performed fewer tests while having a larger population. But then you went on to talk about rates of positive tests. And btw, India? You're boasting that the US is better than India?

Compare numbers with numbers, and rates with rates. The imputation that the US has performed the most tests per capita is wrong.

What I was saying was that there are nations doing worse than the U.S. And I said in my mos trecent post that the U.S. isn't doing that well. As you could see with my posts I am still pretty crappy at debates though.

[-Astoria-]

Vietnam.

To be fair, the Vietnamese state is based on Communism with Capitalist Characteristics, allowing it to enforce effective lockdowns and trackings with relative ease. They also have experience with the 2003 SARS outbreak.

Fair point; & avian flu, too.

[Elevanos]

Like which nations?

Vietnam.

Vietnam and other nations with communism have much more control over their citizens, which is why communist regimes are usually also called authoritarian regimes, since they have to survey basically everything in the nation to make sure there's no private business or law-breaking. In the U.S. people have the freedom to do basically whatever they want within the law. If it's not an enforced regulation/law, then Americans will do it. And with America being a republic, governor and national orders mean basically nothing without a majority rule, and in some cases businesses have more power than the government. I would say our abundant freedoms kind of screwed us over here. That and viruses liking densely and over-populated places. Which is why New York, Illinois, California, Florida, and any other state with large cities blew up.

[-Astoria-]

Vietnam.

Vietnam and other nations with communism have much more control over their citizens, which is why communist regimes are usually also called authoritarian regimes, since they have to survey basically everything in the nation to make sure there's no private business or law-breaking. In the U.S. people have the freedom to do basically whatever they want within the law. If it's not an enforced regulation/law, then Americans will do it. And with America being a republic, governor and national orders mean basically nothing without a majority rule, and in some cases businesses have more power than the government. I would say our abundant freedoms kind of screwed us over here. That and viruses liking densely and over-populated places. Which is why New York, Illinois, California, Florida, and any other state with large cities blew up.

...you asked me to give an example, no?

[Elevanos]

Vietnam and other nations with communism have much more control over their citizens, which is why communist regimes are usually also called authoritarian regimes, since they have to survey basically everything in the nation to make sure there's no private business or law-breaking. In the U.S. people have the freedom to do basically whatever they want within the law. If it's not an enforced regulation/law, then Americans will do it. And with America being a republic, governor and national orders mean basically nothing without a majority rule, and in some cases businesses have more power than the government. I would say our abundant freedoms kind of screwed us over here. That and viruses liking densely and over-populated places. Which is why New York, Illinois, California, Florida, and any other state with large cities blew up.

...you asked me to give an example, no?

Yeah but Vietnam was an example of why authoritarian nations nearly always win in virus scenarios. But thanks for actually giving an example instead of impulsively pumping out crap

[Region of Dwipantara]

Vietnam.

Vietnam and other nations with communism have much more control over their citizens, which is why communist regimes are usually also called authoritarian regimes, since they have to survey basically everything in the nation to make sure there's no private business or law-breaking.

Strangely, the Indonesian president was mad because all the manufacturing industries moving out of China settled in Vietnam and none came to Indonesia. Apparently, Vietnam far excelled us in terms of ease of doing business, business permit and red tape cutting, deregulation, and in attracting foreign direct investment. But that's outside the scope of this thread.

In the mean time, South Korea, being a technologically advanced state prepared for such kinds of crisis due to experience in the 2015 MERS outbreak, far excelled the US in every possible parameter.

“It is difficult to say by simple calculations, but (I could say) judging from the country’s GDP growth rate in absolute value that Korea has minimized economic damage from the pandemic — around 20-30 percent of the extent of damage suffered by others,” said Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Hong Nam-ki on Saturday.

...“Instead of going through economically damaging lockdowns that led major economies to contract, Korea chose alternative measures, including widespread testing and contact tracing, to contain the new virus,” said Park Seok-gil, an economist at JP Morgan.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/business.i ... a-oecd/amp

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Vietnam and other nations with communism have much more control over their citizens, which is why communist regimes are usually also called authoritarian regimes, since they have to survey basically everything in the nation to make sure there's no private business or law-breaking.

Strangely, the Indonesian president was mad because all the manufacturing industries moving out of China settled in Vietnam and none came to Indonesia. Apparently, Vietnam far excelled us in terms of ease of doing business, business permit and red tape cutting, deregulation, and in attracting foreign direct investment. But that's outside the scope of this thread.

In the mean time, South Korea, being a technologically advanced state prepared for such kinds of crisis due to experience in the 2015 MERS outbreak, far excelled the US in every possible parameter.

“It is difficult to say by simple calculations, but (I could say) judging from the country’s GDP growth rate in absolute value that Korea has minimized economic damage from the pandemic — around 20-30 percent of the extent of damage suffered by others,” said Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Hong Nam-ki on Saturday.

...“Instead of going through economically damaging lockdowns that led major economies to contract, Korea chose alternative measures, including widespread testing and contact tracing, to contain the new virus,” said Park Seok-gil, an economist at JP Morgan.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/business.i ... a-oecd/amp

Alot of people dont wanna admit that America fucked up, and most of these covid deaths were preventable.

[San Lumen]

Strangely, the Indonesian president was mad because all the manufacturing industries moving out of China settled in Vietnam and none came to Indonesia. Apparently, Vietnam far excelled us in terms of ease of doing business, business permit and red tape cutting, deregulation, and in attracting foreign direct investment. But that's outside the scope of this thread.

In the mean time, South Korea, being a technologically advanced state prepared for such kinds of crisis due to experience in the 2015 MERS outbreak, far excelled the US in every possible parameter.

Alot of people dont wanna admit that America fucked up, and most of these covid deaths were preventable.

If Obama was still President none of this would have happened and we wouldnt be facing economic disaster

[The Alma Mater]

Alot of people dont wanna admit that America fucked up, and most of these covid deaths were preventable.

If Obama was still President none of this would have happened and we wouldnt be facing economic disaster

Well,you would still have had a taskforce for this eventuality. That would have helped.
People would also have started social distancing and facemasks earlier.
Ventilators would not have been hoarded to give male members of the Trumpfamily hard-ons for killing lefties.

So it would have been "less worse" - but still not great. The American mindset is too set on the glorification of self interest to properly deal with a pandemic.

[San Lumen]

If Obama was still President none of this would have happened and we wouldnt be facing economic disaster

Well,you would still have had a taskforce for this eventuality. That would have helped.
People would also have started social distancing and facemasks earlier.
Ventilators would not have been hoarded to give male members of the Trumpfamily hard-ons for killing lefties.

So it would have been "less worse" - but still not great. The American mindset is too set on the glorification of self interest to properly deal with a pandemic.

He would have shut down flight as early as January from China and possibly from Europe. That would have made a major difference.

[The Black Forrest]

Well,you would still have had a taskforce for this eventuality. That would have helped.
People would also have started social distancing and facemasks earlier.
Ventilators would not have been hoarded to give male members of the Trumpfamily hard-ons for killing lefties.

So it would have been "less worse" - but still not great. The American mindset is too set on the glorification of self interest to properly deal with a pandemic.

He would have shut down flight as early as January from China and possibly from Europe. That would have made a major difference.

There is a growing belief the majority of our infections came from Europe. Funny thing about pandemics; they seem to travel everywhere.

[The Huskar Social Union]

make it stop, make it stop

This also fits here

[San Lumen]

He would have shut down flight as early as January from China and possibly from Europe. That would have made a major difference.

There is a growing belief the majority of our infections came from Europe. Funny thing about pandemics; they seem to travel everywhere.

and likely would have shut down all air travel into the United States for awhile. That would have done a lot.

[Salandriagado]

Since the last time this nearly happened, we are really very careful about this sort of thing: smallpox exists only in exactly two labs in the world, both of which keep it in the highest level of biocontainment facility that exists, and both of which vaccinate everybody who goes anywhere near there.

I don't understand why they still keep it around, and why they don't vaccinate everyone for it

For the former: because if something similar enters the system and goes epidemic, we want some handy to help make vaccines (though the justification is rather questionable, there). For the latter: because the vaccine gives some people serious side-effects, and giving it to everybody just doesn't have a good risk:benefit ratio.

[Salandriagado]

I don't understand why they still keep it around,

As a potential bioweapon and for research.

and why they don't vaccinate everyone for it

Because making huge amounts of the vaccine for a disease that doesn't infect anyone is not a very good use of resources.

Making it isn't actually the issue (we do make large amounts of it, and keep it ready in case we need it to deal with a new outbreak from somewhere). It's just that actually issuing it puts people at more risk than not doing so.

[Salandriagado]

Indeed it is, still it'd be better to prepare for a highly unlikely disastrous event than just assume it won't happen and destroy what little left you have to prepare for it with.

This line of "a disaster won't happen here, so why don't we just step down our emergency preparedness measures" thinking is exactly how Coronavirus became such a mess, the pandemic spread of something like smallpox would make you wish we just had Coronavirus to worry about.

Yellowstone could erupt tomorrow too. It would be the end of the world as we know it. Corona would be nothing if that happened.

We likely have no plan for that either.

Yes. But one of these things is something that we can plan for effectively at what is, at the end of a day, a very small cost.

[Salandriagado]

Indeed it is, still it'd be better to prepare for a highly unlikely disastrous event than just assume it won't happen and destroy what little left you have to prepare for it with.

This line of "a disaster won't happen here, so why don't we just step down our emergency preparedness measures" thinking is exactly how Coronavirus became such a mess, the pandemic spread of something like smallpox would make you wish we just had Coronavirus to worry about.

Yeah, well I'd like the samples they're retaining to be somewhere really secure. Perhaps a bank vault.

The samples are being kept in facilities that are many, many times more secure than any bank vault.

[Salandriagado]

They are in highly ranked disease research centers, kept under the best possible guard that viruses could be. A bank vault would likely be a step down... unless it were a bank vault with viral containment procedures, inside the facility.

Bank vaults are protected against bad guys with guns and explosives.
Banks have put quite a bit of time and money into making them hard to break into.

Scientists I expect mostly rely on security by obscurity. There will be a vial with WARNING: Smallpox inside a locked drawer of a locked vault (tho not a real hardass vault like a bank has) but the real smallpox will be marked "WARNING: Unknown pathogen D62" in a locked drawer labelled Pending Secure Destruction.

Your expectation has no relationship to reality.

[The Black Forrest]

They are in highly ranked disease research centers, kept under the best possible guard that viruses could be. A bank vault would likely be a step down... unless it were a bank vault with viral containment procedures, inside the facility.

Bank vaults are protected against bad guys with guns and explosives.
Banks have put quite a bit of time and money into making them hard to break into.

Scientists I expect mostly rely on security by obscurity. There will be a vial with WARNING: Smallpox inside a locked drawer of a locked vault (tho not a real hardass vault like a bank has) but the real smallpox will be marked "WARNING: Unknown pathogen D62" in a locked drawer labelled Pending Secure Destruction.

Eh? Your assumption is rather off. Try walking into a bioweapons facility (I mention it as smallpox is basically a bioweapon now). You can't. Try to sneak in; you will be caught and prosecuted. Only certain people have access to materials. You can't simply carry them out. There are procedures.

The same with bioresearch. There are levels for labs and security is one areas measured. Joebob the janitor will not have access and "clean up these vials"