Coronavirus Thread V: A Shot in the Arm (READ OP)

[Neutraligon]

You said yourself that it would change life as we know it, if the Yellowstone Caldera blows.

It would be a massive climate event which would screw everyone everywhere. Not just America.

Though a disclaimer: the North and South hemispheres are not that well connected atmospherically. South America and Australia wouldn't be as much affected. Seeing you all starve would be distressing, but the irony of the driest inhabited continent becoming the world's bread-basket would give me some satisfaction. Bags of wheat being distributed off the back of lorries, with "G'day from Straya" printed on them ...

If $150 billion is too much for your poor taxpayers, perhaps you could call out for international donations? It's in everyone's interest that Yellowstone doesn't go up, and that includes any half-baked attempts to cool it down. It's a big deal. You want to get it right first time.

I don't think humans should be interfering with natural processes.

Then do not get the vaccine, because that is humans interfering with natural processes.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I don't think humans should be interfering with natural processes.

Then do not get the vaccine, because that is humans interfering with natural processes.

I think you should grant an exemption for the individual. I do. I don't want to be that player who rebuts "I think we should care more for the environment" with "oh yeah? Did you eat bacon for breakfast?"

If we are going to stop the catastrophe of nature we have embarked on, we need to do it all together. Being "greener than thou" towards each other is not going to get it done. In fact, politics is not going to get it done: we need a much broader coalition than just majorities in the democratic countries.

[Region of Dwipantara]

You still have 2700 of them per year according to the FBI.
That is more than bio-robbings.

Indeed, and it is absurdly difficult to avoid the resources of the Federal Government when planning and executing things like Bank Robberies and Bio-robberies.

Such massive preparations very likely requires a large organizational base and a high amount of activity, things that US intelligence and security apparatus can detect pretty well. (Which is why I think the vast majority of major assassination attempts on US presidents are done by lonewolf lunatics instead of sophisticated groups, as the former is harder to detect). Not to mention that in the vast majority of cases, biological centers collaborate with or are run directly by the government itself, who likely have a lot of research to do (outside of Covid) and have to be wary of foreign intelligence, theft, etc.

[Neutraligon]

Then do not get the vaccine, because that is humans interfering with natural processes.

I think you should grant an exemption for the individual. I do. I don't want to be that player who rebuts "I think we should care more for the environment" with "oh yeah? Did you eat bacon for breakfast?"

If we are going to stop the catastrophe of nature we have embarked on, we need to do it all together. Being "greener than thou" towards each other is not going to get it done. In fact, politics is not going to get it done: we need a much broader coalition than just majorities in the democratic countries.

I am not trying to be greener then thou, I am pointing out that their comment makes no sense given their previous position on vaccines.

[Post War America]

Then do not get the vaccine, because that is humans interfering with natural processes.

I think you should grant an exemption for the individual. I do. I don't want to be that player who rebuts "I think we should care more for the environment" with "oh yeah? Did you eat bacon for breakfast?"

If we are going to stop the catastrophe of nature we have embarked on, we need to do it all together. Being "greener than thou" towards each other is not going to get it done. In fact, politics is not going to get it done: we need a much broader coalition than just majorities in the democratic countries.

I mean, the very functioning of anything even vaguely resembling a modern industrial, or even an agricultural society leans heavily on humans collectively interfering with natural processes. If you like civilization, you're gonna have to interfere with natural processes. So the whole, let's just let tens of millions of people die in the event the Yellowstone Super Caldera blows, because interfering with nature is bad yo, seems kind of a silly stance.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronaviru ... tive-test/

And yet there are people pushing to reopen the schools elsewhere. They did in Georgia and it's a clusterfuck.

[Stellar Colonies]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-georgia-second-grader-covid-19-positive-test/

And yet there are people pushing to reopen the schools elsewhere. They did in Georgia and it's a clusterfuck.

My county being on California's 'virus watchlist' means we can't reopen schools for onsite classes quite yet and are sticking with online for now, but we'll be permitted to do so by the state government if we suppress our virus rates below a certain level and then remain off the list for at least two weeks.

Once we reopen the schools, the county is planning to have everyone at the schools follow

Teachers must remain 6 feet distanced from all students and staff at all times.

Students must remain 6 feet apart from others where practicable.

All students in third grade and above must wear masks. Students in the lower grades are strongly encouraged, but not required, to wear masks. Students or individuals who are not masked “must be excluded from campus.” Masks can be removed meals, naptimes and outdoor recreation.

There must be daily symptom checks, including temperature checks, hand washing stations, and daily sanitation and disinfection of facilities and equipment.

There will also be quarantine protocols in place should a student or staff member test positive.

but knowing how well my compatriots from high school, middle school, and elementary school would follow them, I'm entirely expecting any schools that reopen to trigger repeated little whack-a-mole type outbreaks here which could potentially result in deaths (not many, if they somehow manage to keep them from getting out of hand, but at least a few). And that's if they keep them from getting out of hand and prevent a third huge spike in cases here.

[The Black Forrest]

Fauci has been getting death threats to the point of needing security.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/ ... ta-vpx.cnn

[Fartsniffage]

Fauci has been getting death threats to the point of needing security.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/ ... ta-vpx.cnn

"It is what it is."

[USS Monitor]

There's also the fact that biological weapons are kind of terroristic kryptonite.

You can't control viruses. You unleash it, what is stopping you infecting yourself or your allies?

What makes terrorist cells effective is the sympathy of a portion of the public and your ability to justify yourself to them. The most powerful terrorist organizations have sympathizers all over the world, including some governments.

It's very easy to fuck up a bio-bomb... Case in point, if the Coronavirus was an attempt at bio-terrorism, it fucked up massively because it infected the entire planet. It's why nobody has even tried to falsely claim responsibility for it. It's one thing to kill 1,400 innocent Americans, it's entirely another to kill 700,000 random people for no good reason.

If someone did want to use a virus as a bioweapon, it would be smarter to use something like MERS that has a high fatality rate, but is not very contagious (easier to control), and you can find it in the wild without breaking into a lab.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Fauci has been getting death threats to the point of needing security.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/ ... ta-vpx.cnn

"It is what it is."

Why do I feel like half of those threats are being sent by FBI agents under directives from president Trump?

[Salandriagado]

There's also the fact that biological weapons are kind of terroristic kryptonite.

You can't control viruses. You unleash it, what is stopping you infecting yourself or your allies?

What makes terrorist cells effective is the sympathy of a portion of the public and your ability to justify yourself to them. The most powerful terrorist organizations have sympathizers all over the world, including some governments.

It's very easy to fuck up a bio-bomb... Case in point, if the Coronavirus was an attempt at bio-terrorism, it fucked up massively because it infected the entire planet. It's why nobody has even tried to falsely claim responsibility for it. It's one thing to kill 1,400 innocent Americans, it's entirely another to kill 700,000 random people for no good reason.

If someone did want to use a virus as a bioweapon, it would be smarter to use something like MERS that has a high fatality rate, but is not very contagious (easier to control), and you can find it in the wild without breaking into a lab.

Also, once you have broken into that lab, there's way better things in there. The labs that deal with these kinds of diseases are the same ones that deal with things like anthrax.

The full list of pathogens (skipping all of the toxins) is (the causative agents of):

Anthrax
Q fever
Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever
Sleeping sickness
Ebola
Tularemia
Lassa hemorrhagic fever
Lujo hemorrhagic fever
Marburg virus
Monkeypox
1918 influenza (recontructed)
Epidemic typhus
SARS
Chapare hemorrhagic fever
Venezuelan hemorrhagic fever
Argentine hemorrhagic fever
Black typhus
Brazilian hemorrhagic fever
Far-Eastern and Siberian flaviviruses (a big category, responsible for a whole bunch of very nasty diseases)
Kyasanur forest disease
Omsk hemorrhagic fever
Smallpox
Plague
Brucellosis
Glanders
Melioidosis
Hendra virus
Nipah virus
Rift valley fever
Venezuelan equine encephalitis
African horse sickness
African swine fever
Bird flu
Classical swine fever
Foot-and-mouth disease
Goatpox
Lumpy skin disease
Contageous caprine pleuropneumonia
Mycoplasma mycoides
Virulent Newcastle disease
Ovine rinderpest
Rinderpest
Sheeppox
Swine vesicular disease
Coniothyrium glycines
Phillipine downy mildew
Saccharine downy mildew
Granville wilt
Annual ryegrass toxicity
Sclerophthora rayssiae
Potato wart
Xanthomonas oryzae


Frankly, anybody who looks at a list like that and thinks "I know, I'll weaponise the fairly infectious, moderately deadly coronavirus" is stupid.

[Andsed]

The samples are being kept in facilities that are many, many times more secure than any bank vault.

Oh really. So if a team of twelve heavily armed people take out all the security guards and chase away the other staff, then their four explosives experts break into the sample storage room (which locked automatically when the alarms were triggered), then they break into the 12 caskets of highest security (which are of course too heavy for people to carry, I'm sure you thought of that) and deliver twelve samples that may or may-not be smallpox to the ringleader. And then the ringleader distributes the 12 vials to her most trusted henchpeople, who run out to their cars and drive off in different directions.

Bear in mind that every one of them is a religiously dedicated badass motherfucker who is prepared to die before being captured!

Now compare to a bank vault in the middle of a city. Built with centuries of experience in deterring or at least delaying badass motherfuckers from stealing the gold and jewels and cash therein. With police stations within a few kilometres in any direction. Specialist units, with big guns that can blow right through body armor, not that far away.

As a scientist (or aligned type) I ask you to consider which is more trust-worthy. The biologist's "high security" facility which has never been tested against badass motherfuckers, or the banker's "high security" facility which is the product of generations of testing against essentially the same kind of badass motherfuckers?

You severely underestimate just how secure these labs are. Anyone trying to raid one would need to take massive preparations which could very well alert US intelligence and even if they managed to pull it off there would be a massive man hunt for them. Trying to break into these facilitates for a bio bomb would be very difficult.

[Salandriagado]

Oh really. So if a team of twelve heavily armed people take out all the security guards and chase away the other staff, then their four explosives experts break into the sample storage room (which locked automatically when the alarms were triggered), then they break into the 12 caskets of highest security (which are of course too heavy for people to carry, I'm sure you thought of that) and deliver twelve samples that may or may-not be smallpox to the ringleader. And then the ringleader distributes the 12 vials to her most trusted henchpeople, who run out to their cars and drive off in different directions.

Bear in mind that every one of them is a religiously dedicated badass motherfucker who is prepared to die before being captured!

Now compare to a bank vault in the middle of a city. Built with centuries of experience in deterring or at least delaying badass motherfuckers from stealing the gold and jewels and cash therein. With police stations within a few kilometres in any direction. Specialist units, with big guns that can blow right through body armor, not that far away.

As a scientist (or aligned type) I ask you to consider which is more trust-worthy. The biologist's "high security" facility which has never been tested against badass motherfuckers, or the banker's "high security" facility which is the product of generations of testing against essentially the same kind of badass motherfuckers?

You severely underestimate just how secure these labs are. Anyone trying to raid one would need to take massive preparations which could very well alert US intelligence and even if they managed to pull it off there would be a massive man hunt for them. Trying to break into these facilitates for a bio bomb would be very difficult.

Also, these labs have the facilities to destroy their stocks of everything dangerous far more quickly than you can get into them.

[Vetalia]

The biologist's, every single time. Note that banks do get successfully robbed. Despite decades of being a publicly-announced targets for every terrorist group and insane government in the world, neither of those labs has ever had anybody get anywhere near close. The labs have on-site military presences that vastly outgun anything any bank could expect to turn up in police support and many, many more layers of security.

So yes, I'll keep on trusting the system that's literally never failed over the one that fails regularly.

Not to mention the overwhelming majority of "bank robberies" are people passing a note across the counter and making off with some cash, especially since the tellers are instructed to respond this way to a robbery.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-georgia-second-grader-covid-19-positive-test/

And yet there are people pushing to reopen the schools elsewhere. They did in Georgia and it's a clusterfuck.

GA has been a monumental clusterfuck throughout the pandemic. I’m not surprised their school reopening has also been a clusterfuck. The governor is an imbecile.

[Northern Davincia]

"It is what it is."

Why do I feel like half of those threats are being sent by FBI agents under directives from president Trump?

It's just your paranoia talking.

[Australian rePublic]

I wonder if, after a certsin period of time, if we maintained social distancing, if we could kill off all colds and flus. Not that we should, but I wonder if we could

You could reduce them, but no, it would not wipe them all out. The COVID response appears to be reducing the spread of flu, but it will not die out because it can infect animals and spread back to humans.

You might wipe out some particular strains, but you would not wipe out all colds and flus. Kind of like the smallpox vaccine wiped out smallpox, but it did not wipe out the other pox viruses that can spread across species between humans and animals.

I see. Could the same then apply to Covid?

[Region of Dwipantara]

You could reduce them, but no, it would not wipe them all out. The COVID response appears to be reducing the spread of flu, but it will not die out because it can infect animals and spread back to humans.

You might wipe out some particular strains, but you would not wipe out all colds and flus. Kind of like the smallpox vaccine wiped out smallpox, but it did not wipe out the other pox viruses that can spread across species between humans and animals.

I see. Could the same then apply to Covid?

Well, Covid originated from bats, so it's safe to assume the similar is likely to happen. Though it would need quite some years. Really, the real long term solution is more funding for research and development of rapid vaccine production technology, as since technology is advancing, the risk of bioterrorism is getting larger.

[Neanderthaland]

You could reduce them, but no, it would not wipe them all out. The COVID response appears to be reducing the spread of flu, but it will not die out because it can infect animals and spread back to humans.

You might wipe out some particular strains, but you would not wipe out all colds and flus. Kind of like the smallpox vaccine wiped out smallpox, but it did not wipe out the other pox viruses that can spread across species between humans and animals.

I see. Could the same then apply to Covid?

Yes and no.

Coronaviruses (as a group) absolutely will jump back and forth between humans and animals in the future. They do this a lot.

Covid (as single coronavirus) might spread to non-human animals, but is unlikely to prosper, and even more unlikely to jump back. And if it did, it wouldn't be the same Covid anymore.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Why do I feel like half of those threats are being sent by FBI agents under directives from president Trump?

It's just your paranoia talking.

Its a joke bro

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Remember when my friend Tyler said in May "guberment said groups of 10 may hang"?

And Celritannia said it sounded like something an 18th century executioner would say.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Oh really. So if a team of twelve heavily armed people take out all the security guards and chase away the other staff, then their four explosives experts break into the sample storage room (which locked automatically when the alarms were triggered), then they break into the 12 caskets of highest security (which are of course too heavy for people to carry, I'm sure you thought of that) and deliver twelve samples that may or may-not be smallpox to the ringleader. And then the ringleader distributes the 12 vials to her most trusted henchpeople, who run out to their cars and drive off in different directions.

Bear in mind that every one of them is a religiously dedicated badass motherfucker who is prepared to die before being captured!

Now compare to a bank vault in the middle of a city. Built with centuries of experience in deterring or at least delaying badass motherfuckers from stealing the gold and jewels and cash therein. With police stations within a few kilometres in any direction. Specialist units, with big guns that can blow right through body armor, not that far away.

As a scientist (or aligned type) I ask you to consider which is more trust-worthy. The biologist's "high security" facility which has never been tested against badass motherfuckers, or the banker's "high security" facility which is the product of generations of testing against essentially the same kind of badass motherfuckers?

You severely underestimate just how secure these labs are. Anyone trying to raid one would need to take massive preparations which could very well alert US intelligence and even if they managed to pull it off there would be a massive man hunt for them. Trying to break into these facilitates for a bio bomb would be very difficult.

Yeah, I'm no longer interested in being told again that bio facilities are more secure than a bank vault. That seems so implausible to me I won't be responding any more, unless someone presents evidence.

[Andsed]

You severely underestimate just how secure these labs are. Anyone trying to raid one would need to take massive preparations which could very well alert US intelligence and even if they managed to pull it off there would be a massive man hunt for them. Trying to break into these facilitates for a bio bomb would be very difficult.

Yeah, I'm no longer interested in being told again that bio facilities are more secure than a bank vault. That seems so implausible to me I won't be responding any more, unless someone presents evidence.

Trust me, high risk bio labs have tight ass security according to this article by Reuters:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-biosecurity/how-secure-are-labs-handling-worlds-deadliest-pathogens-idUSTRE81E0R420120216 To enter Galveston National Laboratory you need to a key card to get through the single entrance(which is guarded by Texas State Troopers 24/7) get though 7 locked doors some of which require fingerprint scans, and due to the fact many of these labs use negative air flows requires those who wish to enter to wear full body air supplied suits. No one can just walk into these places like you could a bank. Meaning that you can't really rob without using force(which does not tend to end well hence why most bank robberies goes along the line of someone walking in and giving a note to a teller.)

[Salandriagado]

I see. Could the same then apply to Covid?

Well, Covid originated from bats, so it's safe to assume the similar is likely to happen. Though it would need quite some years. Really, the real long term solution is more funding for research and development of rapid vaccine production technology, as since technology is advancing, the risk of bioterrorism is getting larger.

One of the silver linings for this pandemic is that we have massively accelerated mRNA development and testing. Once that's gotten through this rather impromptu stress test, it'll be able to generate vaccines dramatically quicker than anything else (there's a reason Moderna aren't far behind Oxford, despite Oxford having started with a massive lead). They generated their vaccine candidate within a few days, and they can switch in the genetic material for different viruses just as quickly.