Is it time for Europe to unite?

[Wariaku]

Oh God, not another vehicle for the perpetuation of neoliberalism.

Let the whole EU fall apart, if they will not see how the tide has turned. Since the beginning of the century, every popular referendum has been a resoudning NO against this idée fixe of the neoliberals. Britain has already left. When will they learn that NO means NO?

[Ansarre]

Oh God, not another vehicle for the perpetuation of neoliberalism.

Let the whole EU fall apart, if they will not see how the tide has turned. Since the beginning of the century, every popular referendum has been a resoudning NO against this idée fixe of the neoliberals. Britain has already left. When will they learn that NO means NO?

Every single referendum? Interesting.

2002 Irish Constitutional referendum: 62% in favour (Treaty of Nice)
2003 Maltese European Union membership referendum, 8 March 2003, 53.6% in favour, turnout 90.9%
2003 Slovenian European Union membership referendum, 23 March 2003, 89.6% in favour
2003 Hungarian European Union membership referendum, 12 April 2003, 83.8% in favour
2003 Lithuanian European Union membership referendum, 10–11 May 2003, 91.9% in favour
2003 Slovak European Union membership referendum, 16–17 May 2003, 93.7% in favour
2003 Polish European Union membership referendum, 7–8 June 2003, 77.5% in favour
2003 Czech European Union membership referendum, 13–14 June 2003, 77.3% in favour
2003 Estonian European Union membership referendum, 14 September 2003, 66.8% in favour
2003 Latvian European Union membership referendum, 20 September 2003, 67.5% in favour
2005 Spanish European Constitution referendum, 20 February 2005, 81.8% in favour
2005 Luxembourgian European Constitution referendum, 10 July 2005, 56.5% in favour
2009 Irish referendum to approve the Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution, 67.1% in favour (Treaty of Lisbon)
2012 Croatian European Union membership referendum, 22 January 2012, 66.7% in favour
2012 Irish referendum to approve the Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland, 60.4% in favour (Fiscal compact)
2014 Danish Unified Patent Court membership referendum, 25 May 2014, 62.5% in favour

In addition, Switzerland has had 11 referendums on further integration with the EU and eight out of those were successful.

[Auricania]

Membership =/= unification.

Moving goalposts much?

[Ansarre]

Membership =/= unification.

Moving goalposts much?

No. There's never been a referendum on unification. All of those referendums were on membership or other integration measures. Your buddy said every referendum since the turn of the century has rejected further integration, but that's quite blatantly not true.

[Bienenhalde]

I agree that Europe should probably be more unified regarding foreign policy and military cooperation. And cooperation is also necessary to handle public health and environmental problems like Covid-19 or climate change. But some things are better left to national and local governments.

[Bienenhalde]

The point of my post is that, if Europe reunites, a 4th German Reich, a Holy Roman Empire or Austria-Hungary will not magically pop up from their graves and be restored to "greatness". Too many people have this kind of fantasy and I seriously can not comprehend why.

Obviously the EU will not be exactly the same as any past empire, but comparisons to the past demonstrate that a unified Europe is actually a reasonable proposition and not necessarily some impossible utopian fantasy or dystopian communist or neoliberal hellhole.

[Luziyca]

Personally, I'd say yes, to the point where the EU can serve as a counterweight to America and China, mostly so Canada won't have to pick between one or the other. But it is the people who decide, and I kinda doubt many in the EU would want to live under a federal Europe.

[Slavakino]

No

[Slavakino]

Personally, I'd say yes, to the point where the EU can serve as a counterweight to America and China, mostly so Canada won't have to pick between one or the other. But it is the people who decide, and I kinda doubt many in the EU would want to live under a federal Europe.

Knowing the EU, they are gonna pass some bullshit like demilitarisation, anti-nuclear and "peace" bullshit. If you want a counterweight to both China and the USA, you already have Russia or better yet you can reform the Soviet Union

[Stellar Colonies]

Personally, I'd say yes, to the point where the EU can serve as a counterweight to America and China, mostly so Canada won't have to pick between one or the other. But it is the people who decide, and I kinda doubt many in the EU would want to live under a federal Europe.

Knowing the EU, they are gonna pass some bullshit like demilitarisation, anti-nuclear and "peace" bullshit. If you want a counterweight to both China and the USA, you already have Russia or better yet you can reform the Soviet Union

A federalized EU is more likely than a reformed Soviet Union.

And I'm not sure if the former is that likely in the first place.

[The Alma Mater]

Personally, I'd say yes, to the point where the EU can serve as a counterweight to America and China, mostly so Canada won't have to pick between one or the other. But it is the people who decide, and I kinda doubt many in the EU would want to live under a federal Europe.

Knowing the EU, they are gonna pass some bullshit like demilitarisation, anti-nuclear and "peace" bullshit. If you want a counterweight to both China and the USA, you already have Russia or better yet you can reform the Soviet Union

Why assume it will be like the eu ? Traditionally Europe is a continent of conquering warmongers.

[Slavakino]

Knowing the EU, they are gonna pass some bullshit like demilitarisation, anti-nuclear and "peace" bullshit. If you want a counterweight to both China and the USA, you already have Russia or better yet you can reform the Soviet Union

Why assume it will be like the eu ? Traditionally Europe is a continent of conquering warmongers.

Not anymore, due to progressive crap its gone soft

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Personally, I'd say yes, to the point where the EU can serve as a counterweight to America and China, mostly so Canada won't have to pick between one or the other. But it is the people who decide, and I kinda doubt many in the EU would want to live under a federal Europe.

Knowing the EU, they are gonna pass some bullshit like demilitarisation, anti-nuclear and "peace" bullshit. If you want a counterweight to both China and the USA, you already have Russia or better yet you can reform the Soviet Union

Like this United Republic of Europia?

[-Astoria-]

Why assume it will be like the eu ? Traditionally Europe is a continent of conquering warmongers.

Not anymore, due to progressive crap its gone soft

Drink.

[Broader Confederate States]

Why not do the opposite? Instead of try to force different European nationalities to live together, split apart the countries that threaten their security?

[The Alma Mater]

Why assume it will be like the eu ? Traditionally Europe is a continent of conquering warmongers.

Not anymore, due to progressive crap its gone soft

It has been less than a century. History is a cycle, Europe will return to slaughter and maiming. Rejoice

[Slavakino]

Not anymore, due to progressive crap its gone soft

It has been less than a century. History is a cycle, Europe will return to slaughter and maiming. Rejoice

Only future war I see is with China or India

[The Blaatschapen]

Why not do the opposite? Instead of try to force different European nationalities to live together, split apart the countries that threaten their security?

Can we break up what's left of the Soviet Union even more?

[The Islands of Versilia]

Why not do the opposite? Instead of try to force different European nationalities to live together, split apart the countries that threaten their security?

Can we break up what's left of the Soviet Union even more?

Adopting policies of ultra-prometheism is something Europe and the UK should both seriously consider. Those that threaten our collective interests and security should be dismantled and punitively punished.

[Vivolkha]

Personally, I'd say yes, to the point where the EU can serve as a counterweight to America and China, mostly so Canada won't have to pick between one or the other. But it is the people who decide, and I kinda doubt many in the EU would want to live under a federal Europe.

Knowing the EU, they are gonna pass some bullshit like demilitarisation, anti-nuclear and "peace" bullshit. If you want a counterweight to both China and the USA, you already have Russia or better yet you can reform the Soviet Union

To begin with, Russia is a distant ally of China. Furthermore, Russia's military budget, while huge for its economic prowess, is in absolute terms much smaller than those of the US or China, and comparable to that of France (NATO has over 15 times more military budget than Russia).

[Lanoraie II]

I was about to say yes, thinking we were talking in terms of Europeans finally ceasing their thousands of years of arguing and warring for good, but seeing the implications of OP's post I'm going to have to give a hard no to that. I don't want any more wars, and I also don't want the countries to slowly blend into each other, which is sadly already happening with modernization/Californication.

[The Blaatschapen]

Personally, I'd say yes, to the point where the EU can serve as a counterweight to America and China, mostly so Canada won't have to pick between one or the other. But it is the people who decide, and I kinda doubt many in the EU would want to live under a federal Europe.

Knowing the EU, they are gonna pass some bullshit like demilitarisation, anti-nuclear and "peace" bullshit. If you want a counterweight to both China and the USA, you already have Russia or better yet you can reform the Soviet Union

This peace bullshit has worked quite well.

France and Germany had an "every generation we need a war" tradition. This has been thoroughly dismantled and the idea of war between the two is nowadays far fetched.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

I believe that the only reason for peace and unity in Europe in the cold war is the Soviet Union

[-Astoria-]

I believe that the only reason for peace and unity in Europe in the cold war is the Soviet Union

"is"?

[The Alma Mater]

Knowing the EU, they are gonna pass some bullshit like demilitarisation, anti-nuclear and "peace" bullshit. If you want a counterweight to both China and the USA, you already have Russia or better yet you can reform the Soviet Union

This peace bullshit has worked quite well.

France and Germany had an "every generation we need a war" tradition. This has been thoroughly dismantled and the idea of war between the two is nowadays far fetched.

You missed the negotiations for the Corona hand-outs ?
Although that admittedly was more of a "southern Europe vs that Dutchman" instead of France vs Germany.