Is it time for Europe to unite?

[The Blaatschapen]

This peace bullshit has worked quite well.

France and Germany had an "every generation we need a war" tradition. This has been thoroughly dismantled and the idea of war between the two is nowadays far fetched.

You missed the negotiations for the Corona hand-outs ?
Although that admittedly was more of a "southern Europe vs that Dutchman" instead of France vs Germany.

Did it start a war?

Edit: Also, by calling it a hand-out you are framing the issue in a certain light

[The Alma Mater]

You missed the negotiations for the Corona hand-outs ?
Although that admittedly was more of a "southern Europe vs that Dutchman" instead of France vs Germany.

Did it start a war?

Could easily have

Edit: Also, by calling it a hand-out you are framing the issue in a certain light

Indeed I am.

[The Blaatschapen]

Did it start a war?

Could easily have

Eh, Italian offense, I'm not afraid of that.

[Ansarre]

I agree that Europe should probably be more unified regarding foreign policy and military cooperation. And cooperation is also necessary to handle public health and environmental problems like Covid-19 or climate change. But some things are better left to national and local governments.

Of course! Subsidiarity is a core value of the Europeanist movement, though the liberalization of the center-right Christian democratic parties has meant this has taken a bit of a backseat. In a federalized Europe I would hope it would be made a priority.

Personally, I'd say yes, to the point where the EU can serve as a counterweight to America and China, mostly so Canada won't have to pick between one or the other. But it is the people who decide, and I kinda doubt many in the EU would want to live under a federal Europe.

Knowing the EU, they are gonna pass some bullshit like demilitarisation, anti-nuclear and "peace" bullshit. If you want a counterweight to both China and the USA, you already have Russia or better yet you can reform the Soviet Union

Saying something like that just shows you don't "know the EU". The strongest advocates for European integration are vocally supportive of a European army and European possession of a nuclear deterrent. What is it with eurosceptics and projecting total lies onto the EU?

Not anymore, due to progressive crap its gone soft

It has been less than a century. History is a cycle, Europe will return to slaughter and maiming. Rejoice

Which is why we need to come together as one country, and promote unity in our diversity.

I was about to say yes, thinking we were talking in terms of Europeans finally ceasing their thousands of years of arguing and warring for good, but seeing the implications of OP's post I'm going to have to give a hard no to that. I don't want any more wars, and I also don't want the countries to slowly blend into each other, which is sadly already happening with modernization/Californication.

Why? Pan-Europeanism is a deterrent to future wars on Europe, and a strong Europe would be able to project itself globally - especially on the Mediterranean - which would enable us to push for peace efforts in a much more efficient way.

[Punished UMN]

While regional unions are a good thing, what is often missed in these types of discussion is that when multiple countries merge into one, it means giving up the characteristics that make them unique as well as a number of the perks of sovereignty.

[-Astoria-]

While regional unions are a good thing, what is often missed in these types of discussion is that when multiple countries merge into one, it means giving up the characteristics that make them unique as well as a number of the perks of sovereignty.

Depends on the type of union that we're talking about...

[Ifreann]

Personally, I'd say yes, to the point where the EU can serve as a counterweight to America and China, mostly so Canada won't have to pick between one or the other. But it is the people who decide, and I kinda doubt many in the EU would want to live under a federal Europe.

Knowing the EU, they are gonna pass some bullshit like demilitarisation, anti-nuclear and "peace" bullshit. If you want a counterweight to both China and the USA, you already have Russia or better yet you can reform the Soviet Union

I don't think you know the EU at all.

[Slavakino]

Knowing the EU, they are gonna pass some bullshit like demilitarisation, anti-nuclear and "peace" bullshit. If you want a counterweight to both China and the USA, you already have Russia or better yet you can reform the Soviet Union

To begin with, Russia is a distant ally of China. Furthermore, Russia's military budget, while huge for its economic prowess, is in absolute terms much smaller than those of the US or China, and comparable to that of France (NATO has over 15 times more military budget than Russia).

>Russia is a distant ally of China
No, not really. They are barely allies, only good for trade.

[Slavakino]

Saying something like that just shows you don't "know the EU". The strongest advocates for European integration are vocally supportive of a European army and European possession of a nuclear deterrent. What is it with eurosceptics and projecting total lies onto the EU?

Doubt it. The EU was about trade but now it's all about control on one another's country, most of the bullshit proposed is progressive garbage. If I wanted a united world, I want a Socialist Dictatorship

Which is why we need to come together as one country, and promote unity in our diversity.

No, war is a good option to advance humanity and generate cultural shifts

[Ifreann]

Saying something like that just shows you don't "know the EU". The strongest advocates for European integration are vocally supportive of a European army and European possession of a nuclear deterrent. What is it with eurosceptics and projecting total lies onto the EU?

Doubt it. The EU was about trade but now it's all about control on one another's country, most of the bullshit proposed is progressive garbage. If I wanted a united world, I want a Socialist Dictatorship

You continue to prove that you don't know the EU.

Which is why we need to come together as one country, and promote unity in our diversity.

No, war is a good option to advance humanity and generate cultural shifts

You don't know the EU and don't know war.

[Cisairse]

Sure, why not.

[Slavakino]

Doubt it. The EU was about trade but now it's all about control on one another's country, most of the bullshit proposed is progressive garbage. If I wanted a united world, I want a Socialist Dictatorship

You continue to prove that you don't know the EU.

No, war is a good option to advance humanity and generate cultural shifts

You don't know the EU and don't know war.

Don't care, didn't ask

[Ifreann]

You continue to prove that you don't know the EU.


You don't know the EU and don't know war.

Don't care, didn't ask

I see you're developing a catchphrase to employ when you don't want to defend your positions.

[Bienenhalde]

Personally, I'd say yes, to the point where the EU can serve as a counterweight to America and China, mostly so Canada won't have to pick between one or the other. But it is the people who decide, and I kinda doubt many in the EU would want to live under a federal Europe.

Knowing the EU, they are gonna pass some bullshit like demilitarisation, anti-nuclear and "peace" bullshit. If you want a counterweight to both China and the USA, you already have Russia or better yet you can reform the Soviet Union

Well that would depend on what sort of politicians Europeans elect. I would prefer they elected neocon hawks who were willing to defend democracy and not leftist airheads.

[Broader Confederate States]

Why not do the opposite? Instead of try to force different European nationalities to live together, split apart the countries that threaten their security?

Can we break up what's left of the Soviet Union even more?

Yes we can. It's time for the return of the city-state.

[Tornado Queendom]

I don't think it's a good idea for Europe to turn into one state. Sure, it may solve some short-term problems, but this united Europe would quickly lose all support and cause MORE issues than it solves. Nope.

[Neuer Deutsches Reich]

even if it united, what on itself already is absurd, it would just lose all support and fall into chaos. People would want their independence back and might end up a big civil war.

not that a union is even likely. Not even a bit enough support for that. As Farage said, the UK is the first and for sure not the last to leave.

[Aureumterra]

Why not do the opposite? Instead of try to force different European nationalities to live together, split apart the countries that threaten their security?

Can we break up what's left of the Soviet Union even more?

Russia can easily be split into at least 16 different countries around ethnolinguistic groups, although most of them would have tiny populations. The US can be balkanized into the dominant regions (Northeast, Southeast, Texas, Great Plains, Midwest, Cascadia, California, etc.). I don’t even need to explain India and China

[Greater Miami Shores]

Can we break up what's left of the Soviet Union even more?

Russia can easily be split into at least 16 different countries around ethnolinguistic groups, although most of them would have tiny populations. The US can be balkanized into the dominant regions (Northeast, Southeast, Texas, Great Plains, Midwest, Cascadia, California, etc.). I don’t even need to explain India and China

While I agree with Aureumterra most of the time, the problem is, Russia and Russians wont allow it, for Russian Nationalism.

[The Islands of Versilia]

Russia can easily be split into at least 16 different countries around ethnolinguistic groups, although most of them would have tiny populations. The US can be balkanized into the dominant regions (Northeast, Southeast, Texas, Great Plains, Midwest, Cascadia, California, etc.). I don’t even need to explain India and China

While I agree with Aureumterra most of the time, the problem is, Russia and Russians wont allow it, for Russian Nationalism.

Hence why Europe should unite to a degree that allows such displays of power as dismantling rivals.

[Adamede]

I'm not a European so my opinion on the matter frankly doesn't matter, however if I was I personally wouldn't support the further integration of Europe, and I certainly wouldn't want it done if it went against the majority opinion of the nation I resided in.
However if a pan-European state is what the majority of the people of the nations that would join want, I see nothing inherently wrong with the matter.

[Greater Miami Shores]

While I agree with Aureumterra most of the time, the problem is, Russia and Russians wont allow it, for Russian Nationalism.

Hence why Europe should unite to a degree that allows such displays of power as dismantling rivals.

But because of ethnic nationalisms they cant unite as the United States of Europe, the EU Bureaucracy thinks it is, and needs major reform, how I don't know. I support a Union of European Nations.

[Vaspelia]

Hence why Europe should unite to a degree that allows such displays of power as dismantling rivals.

We can stop with the meme of "All Europe should be united against RUSSIAN AGRESSION"?. Apart from small actual professional units, it's military is as depressing as most of the country is. They are only a threat for surrounding countries that are way much smaller than them, even Ukraine has managed to not bend. Not to mention what the common Russian conscript founds on the den of crime and abuse the Armed Forces is. And size does not really matter, as individual lone countries can still project power just fine, like France did in it's former colonial countries.

[The Black Forrest]

Is Eurasia our friend today?

[Ansarre]

Doubt it. The EU was about trade but now it's all about control on one another's country,

I wish this was true, but sadly it isn't.
Guy Verhofstadt, Angela Merkel, and Angela Merkel all support an EU army.
It has also received support in the past from Berlusconi, Orban, Sobotka, and Juncker, and is an official policy of the European People's Party - the largest party in the EU parliament. "Doubt" it all you want, doesn't stop it from being true.

most of the bullshit proposed is progressive garbage.

Such as...?

No, war is a good option to advance humanity and generate cultural shifts

I would say war isn't inherently bad but inherently good? I don't know.

not that a union is even likely. Not even a bit enough support for that. As Farage said, the UK is the first and for sure not the last to leave.

Ireland: 33%
Portugal: 50%
Spain: 40%
France: 45%
Belgium: 51%
Netherlands: 32%
Luxembourg: 32%
Denmark: 17%
Germany: 42%
Italy: 42%
Croatia: 50%
Slovenia: 44%
Austria: 39%
Czechia: 40%
Poland: 59%
Sweden: 15%
Finland: 16%
Estonia: 31%
Latvia: 36%
Lithuania: 46%
Slovakia: 41%
Hungary: 65%
Romania: 59%
Bulgaria: 39%
Greece: 52%
Cyprus: 42%