NATION

PASSWORD

Study finds State Legislatures Dominated By white Men

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Duvniask
Senator
 
Posts: 4516
Founded: Aug 30, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Duvniask » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:13 am

Picairn wrote:
San Lumen wrote:You don’t see a problem here? A legislature not reflecting the demographics of its constituency? The previous congress which Republicans controlled their caucus was almost entirely white men. Same goes for republican majority in state legislatures it’s almost all white men. But that is no issue right?

Uh, politicians are voted in by their constituents, not their party members. If the legislature is dominated by white men then it's quite clear these white men were voted in by the people, and I don't see any fault with democracy making its voice.

I swear, most people who reply to this with the mindset of "so-what" lack the sociological imagination. Vaush is completely right when he says it changes your perceptions of everything, because you come to understand how our society is a product of complex historical forces, instead of only being able to describe things through the just-world fallacy; that the world is influenced predictably and tends toward a moral balance where well-meaning people naturally bring about well-meaning results.

You people don't conceive of the possibility that people vote for old white men, because there's a social bias towards viewing elders, men, and whites as natural leadership figures; this in addition to other factors such as wealth inequality between groups that mean white men have a disproportionate change of acquiring the resources that allows them to campaign in the first place (which is not a cost-free activity, at least in America) and thus get into power.

People's choices of who they vote for aren't made in some objective vacuum either, they're influenced by who the voters believe can win, who the voters view as accurately representing their interests, who the voters view as being better on the issues (i.e. issue ownership) along with other things such as the person-factor (what kind of person is the candidate?). To suggest things are fine because people were voted in is to miss the complex picture presented by actual research into voting patterns. It is also, as I said above, to miss the complex picture of the social forces that allow people to become candidates in the first place.
Last edited by Duvniask on Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Supporting anTIFA.

Economic Left/Right: -9.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.87
Danish | Political science student | Left communist
The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45874
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:15 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:
San Lumen wrote:You don’t see a problem here? A legislature not reflecting the demographics of its constituency? The previous congress which Republicans controlled their caucus was almost entirely white men. Same goes for republican majority in state legislatures it’s almost all white men. But that is no issue right?

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe it's because the majority of the population in each constituency is in fact white?

That’s your answer? Seriously? There are plenty of state legislative districts that are majority or plurality white and someone not Caucasian represents it.
Last edited by San Lumen on Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
The Two Jerseys
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14816
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:17 am

San Lumen wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:Have you ever stopped to think that maybe it's because the majority of the population in each constituency is in fact white?

That’s your answer? Seriously? There are plenty of state legislative districts that are majority or plurality white and someone not Caucasian represents it.

So you're saying that a white person should be representing that district instead?
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45874
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:20 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:
San Lumen wrote:That’s your answer? Seriously? There are plenty of state legislative districts that are majority or plurality white and someone not Caucasian represents it.

So you're saying that a white person should be representing that district instead?

How did you come to that conclusion?

User avatar
Ors Might
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6796
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:21 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:
San Lumen wrote:That’s your answer? Seriously? There are plenty of state legislative districts that are majority or plurality white and someone not Caucasian represents it.

So you're saying that a white person should be representing that district instead?

That would be the case if you follow the line of reasoning that says that a community’s interests would best be served by someone that looks like it.
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

User avatar
Ors Might
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6796
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:22 am

San Lumen wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:So you're saying that a white person should be representing that district instead?

How did you come to that conclusion?

How did you come to the conclusion that a black individual would be the most capable of representing a black community as opposed to an old white dude? It’s the same line of thinking.
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

User avatar
The Two Jerseys
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14816
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:29 am

San Lumen wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:So you're saying that a white person should be representing that district instead?

How did you come to that conclusion?

You're the one who thinks that the representative should reflect the demographics of their constituency...
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45874
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:35 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:
San Lumen wrote:How did you come to that conclusion?

You're the one who thinks that the representative should reflect the demographics of their constituency...

I meant the legislature not the district. I used constituency to refer to the state as a whole

User avatar
The Two Jerseys
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14816
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:40 am

San Lumen wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:You're the one who thinks that the representative should reflect the demographics of their constituency...

I meant the legislature not the district. I used constituency to refer to the state as a whole

Well that's just plain not gong to happen without at-large seats.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60725
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:45 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I meant the legislature not the district. I used constituency to refer to the state as a whole

Well that's just plain not gong to happen without at-large seats.

Which he’s against. Even though at large seats with proportional representation has been shown to increase minority and female representation.
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45874
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:45 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I meant the legislature not the district. I used constituency to refer to the state as a whole

Well that's just plain not gong to happen without at-large seats.

At large seats aren’t allowed by the voting rights act. And there are plenty of state legislatures such as in New York that aren’t dominated by white men. Our assembly speaker is African American and the majority leader in both chambers is a black woman

User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60725
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:47 am

Ors Might wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:So you're saying that a white person should be representing that district instead?

That would be the case if you follow the line of reasoning that says that a community’s interests would best be served by someone that looks like it.

Sounds eerily close to segregation to me
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60725
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:47 am

San Lumen wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:Well that's just plain not gong to happen without at-large seats.

At large seats aren’t allowed by the voting rights act. And there are plenty of state legislatures such as in New York that aren’t dominated by white men. Our assembly speaker is African American and the majority leader in both chambers is a black woman

Then maybe we should change the VRA.
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
Ors Might
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6796
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:50 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Ors Might wrote:That would be the case if you follow the line of reasoning that says that a community’s interests would best be served by someone that looks like it.

Sounds eerily close to segregation to me

Indeed.
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

User avatar
The Two Jerseys
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14816
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:50 am

San Lumen wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:Well that's just plain not gong to happen without at-large seats.

At large seats aren’t allowed by the voting rights act. And there are plenty of state legislatures such as in New York that aren’t dominated by white men. Our assembly speaker is African American and the majority leader in both chambers is a black woman

The Voting Rights Act is an act of Congress, not sacred scripture. Stop treating it like it's some irrevocable force.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45874
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:52 am

Thermodolia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:At large seats aren’t allowed by the voting rights act. And there are plenty of state legislatures such as in New York that aren’t dominated by white men. Our assembly speaker is African American and the majority leader in both chambers is a black woman

Then maybe we should change the VRA.

Tell your representative in Congress that.

The Two Jerseys wrote:
San Lumen wrote:At large seats aren’t allowed by the voting rights act. And there are plenty of state legislatures such as in New York that aren’t dominated by white men. Our assembly speaker is African American and the majority leader in both chambers is a black woman

The Voting Rights Act is an act of Congress, not sacred scripture. Stop treating it like it's some irrevocable force.


Never said it was. At large voting does not help increase the number of non white representatives. Studies have shown this

User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60725
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:02 am

San Lumen wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Then maybe we should change the VRA.

Tell your representative in Congress that.

What a cop out answer

The Two Jerseys wrote:The Voting Rights Act is an act of Congress, not sacred scripture. Stop treating it like it's some irrevocable force.


Never said it was. At large voting does not help increase the number of non white representatives. Studies have shown this

Not when you keep FPTP voting system. If you have at large districts plus proportional representation or MMP then you will have an increase in minority and female representation.

If you don’t think it would happen then that says more about the democrats, greens, and other left wing parties in the US than you want it to
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
Dresderstan
Senator
 
Posts: 4210
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:29 am

Thermodolia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Then maybe we should change the VRA.

Tell your representative in Congress that.

Do you honest to God think any representative or senator in Congress would fucking listen to actually change the system? Let me tell you something, they fucking wouldn't, no one, no Democrat or Republican would get rid of FPTP they hate third parties, they hate compromise they, and people like you who support the status quo are the sole reason our system is trash. I'd rather support Therm and forcing them to change it through actual force than just asking nicely, because just asking them will do nothing.
21 year old, male from Pennsylvania and proud of it. Love sports like baseball and hockey, enjoy video games and TV. Music is love, music is life. Formula 1 is better than NASCAR. Gay Centrist/Centre-Rightist Vague Rightist

The media is into propaganda not actual news or journalism.
2020 is not "The worst year ever like oh my God" stop being so hyperbolic, you said this last year and the year before, trust me there are way worse years than 2020.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45874
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:14 pm

Dresderstan wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Tell your representative in Congress that.

Do you honest to God think any representative or senator in Congress would fucking listen to actually change the system? Let me tell you something, they fucking wouldn't, no one, no Democrat or Republican would get rid of FPTP they hate third parties, they hate compromise they, and people like you who support the status quo are the sole reason our system is trash. I'd rather support Therm and forcing them to change it through actual force than just asking nicely, because just asking them will do nothing.


how else is it going to change? Some states don't allow the citizenry to place a referendum on the ballot. It can only be done through a constitutional amendment passed by legislature and then a statewide vote. If your state is a initiative and referendum state get a petition together and start collecting signatures
Last edited by San Lumen on Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10071
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:44 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Tell your representative in Congress that.

What a cop out answer


Never said it was. At large voting does not help increase the number of non white representatives. Studies have shown this

Not when you keep FPTP voting system. If you have at large districts plus proportional representation or MMP then you will have an increase in minority and female representation.

If you don’t think it would happen then that says more about the democrats, greens, and other left wing parties in the US than you want it to


A proportional system should work to get women and minorities elected. Democrats would probably run 50% women on principle (they in fact do this choosing members of the DNC), and Republicans would run a few too. Their candidates being mostly white men doesn't really stand out, when there's a primary process to legitimize it. But on a list they would surely put a few women, and minorities if the list was long enough.
Also, AiliAiliA
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
Picairn
Diplomat
 
Posts: 829
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Picairn » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:22 pm

Duvniask wrote:I swear, most people who reply to this with the mindset of "so-what" lack the sociological imagination. Vaush is completely right when he says it changes your perceptions of everything, because you come to understand how our society is a product of complex historical forces, instead of only being able to describe things through the just-world fallacy; that the world is influenced predictably and tends toward a moral balance where well-meaning people naturally bring about well-meaning results.

So much jargon, so little evidence and clarity.

You people don't conceive of the possibility that people vote for old white men, because there's a social bias towards viewing elders, men, and whites as natural leadership figures; this in addition to other factors such as wealth inequality between groups that mean white men have a disproportionate change of acquiring the resources that allows them to campaign in the first place (which is not a cost-free activity, at least in America) and thus get into power.

Citation needed for this alleged "social bias" towards viewing elders, men and white as natural leadership figures. And even if white men have the resources to campaign, that doesn't necessarily mean they will be elected. The fact that they were indeed elected speaks volumes.

People's choices of who they vote for aren't made in some objective vacuum either, they're influenced by who the voters believe can win, who the voters view as accurately representing their interests, who the voters view as being better on the issues (i.e. issue ownership) along with other things such as the person-factor (what kind of person is the candidate?).

And that IS democracy: people deciding who they vote for based on their personal criterias and vote accordingly with their conscious decisions. Do you have any gripes with democracy that you need to vent?

To suggest things are fine because people were voted in is to miss the complex picture presented by actual research into voting patterns. It is also, as I said above, to miss the complex picture of the social forces that allow people to become candidates in the first place.

Those "social factors" you raised are mostly people deciding who to vote for based on their own personal criterias, which is the embodiment of democracy. Anything else that doesn't give me the vibes of anti-democracy?
Picairn's Ministry of Foreign Relations
Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Pauline M. Warburton (Staff)
Long live the Emperor!
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Ayn Rand is a war criminal

Vivian James wrote:It is sophistry to try to redefine your opponent's arguments. It might feel good...

But so can jerking off in a subway.

The Emerald Legion wrote:Nobody generates wealth. Wealth exists. You simply shift it around, or sometimes discover more.

Atheris wrote:Blaming religion for Trump is like blaming science for tear gas.

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10071
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:29 pm

Dresderstan wrote:no Democrat or Republican would get rid of FPTP they hate third parties


This is sort of true. I think Republicans like the Green party (taking votes from Dems), and Democrats like the Libertarian party (similar).

, they hate compromise they,


They do in fact compromise. Earlier this year the biggest spending bill (since WW2?) was a compromise and it didn't take long.

If the major parties can compromise even with their deadly enemy, I'm quite sure they would prefer to have third parties represented where they can compromise with them instead, in order to form a majority.
Last edited by Nobel Hobos 2 on Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Also, AiliAiliA
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45874
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:33 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:no Democrat or Republican would get rid of FPTP they hate third parties


This is sort of true. I think Republicans like the Green party (taking votes from Dems), and Democrats like the Libertarian party (similar).

, they hate compromise they,


They do in fact compromise. Earlier this year the biggest spending bill (since WW2?) was a compromise and it didn't take long.

If the major parties can compromise even with their deadly enemy, I'm quite sure they would prefer to have third parties represented where they can compromise with them instead, in order to form a majority.

In order to change the voting system you need a referendum and it some states that's not easy as you can't just collect signatures and submit. In Some states only the legislature can place a referendum on the ballot.

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10071
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:34 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Ors Might wrote:That would be the case if you follow the line of reasoning that says that a community’s interests would best be served by someone that looks like it.

Sounds eerily close to segregation to me


Segregation is enforced. "Self-segregation" perhaps, but if we're opposed to that we'll have to start bussing adults!
Also, AiliAiliA
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10071
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:43 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
This is sort of true. I think Republicans like the Green party (taking votes from Dems), and Democrats like the Libertarian party (similar).



They do in fact compromise. Earlier this year the biggest spending bill (since WW2?) was a compromise and it didn't take long.

If the major parties can compromise even with their deadly enemy, I'm quite sure they would prefer to have third parties represented where they can compromise with them instead, in order to form a majority.

In order to change the voting system you need a referendum and it some states that's not easy as you can't just collect signatures and submit. In Some states only the legislature can place a referendum on the ballot.


Yeah, but it hardly makes a difference. You need one or both of the major parties onboard to win the referendum. Too many voters won't go against what their party recommends. All the party has to say is "it's bad for our party" ... and if both parties do ... the referendum has a big problem.

Though maybe I'm projecting the Australian situation, where national referenda are rare and fail unless they have support of both major parties. More relevant would be the 2011 UK referendum.
Also, AiliAiliA
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alternamerica, Ameriganastan, Ankras, Arian Empire, Ckoh, Curupiri, Dazchan, Des-Bal, Fartsniffage, Hurdergaryp, Jerzylvania, Khoronzon, La xinga, Mzeusia, Nobel Hobos 2, Post War America, Ramalia Shanatopian, Riviere Renard, Rost Dreadnorramus, San Lumen, Suryak, Tarsonis, The Greater Ohio Valley, The of Japan, Theberstan, VlaRiSsiA

Advertisement

Remove ads