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by The North America Union » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:10 am
CNN | O.A.S. supposedly considering intervention in post coup Suriname - U.S. embassy offciers being evacuated from Suriname | U.S. continues pressure against escalating Azerbaijan dictatorship
by Cetacea » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:51 am
The North America Union wrote:Everyone here ignores the fact that a country like Russia or China will never surpass the United States in terms of cultural influence. If cultural influence was ever passed, it would be by the ending of a dominant cultural power. I mean seriously, do you guys think that Europe, Latin America, etc. would be quick to latch on to Chinese or Russian movies and music???
by The North America Union » Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:26 pm
Cetacea wrote:China is already influencing the output of Hollywood and C-Pop may well surf in on the back of the K-Pop wave - then where will your cultural influence be?
Oh and remember English isnt actually American
by Shanghai industrial complex » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:59 pm
The North America Union wrote:Cetacea wrote:China is already influencing the output of Hollywood and C-Pop may well surf in on the back of the K-Pop wave - then where will your cultural influence be?
Oh and remember English isnt actually American
Don't believe I ever claimed English to be American...
This wasn't supposed to be a American vs. China argument (that you just made it into), the original question was if this is the end of American influence, and my personal answer is no. You seem to have taken a personal attack stance against me and the United States.
My response:
China is not a consumer state, it caters itself to other countries. A country that follows and caters, a country that limits expression and personal freedom, one where you do not have to innovate to succeed, will never be able to influence any country outside of economics. I don't believe the civilized western world (besides maybe Australia...) will be quick to suddenly switch to loving state owned Chinese movie companies and the typical movies they make that are at best copying the classic Hollywood suspense or action movie, but in some massive Chinese metropolis, and music that at best is copying the Koreans and how they achieved success. If anything, countries will begin reverting back to their own material, and stuff they know, not some new Chinese unoriginal, or maybe some true original but 'life lesson crap'.
And as for where "my" cultural influence will be, likely where it always has been, pro US countries (a lot of Europe) and most western civilized nations (as well as Latin America to a lesser extent).
May I ask your nationality to get a better understanding of your stance?
So long, and thanks for all the fish
by New Rogernomics » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:40 pm
It wouldn't have a positive impact for humanity, as the nation coming into the mix is militarily hostile to all its neighbors. This is probably the worst time for humanity since nuclear weapons came on the scene, and the weapons of today are far worse than those that existed during the cold war. America and China going to war, would end 'peace' for anyone, and the South China Sea dispute is rapidly getting worse as the years go on. A lot of folks think that America spontaneously weakening would make the world a better place, when in reality it's adversaries have their own geo-political and territorial ambitions.Luziyca wrote:As a Canadian, I am looking forward to the day that we at the very least get a bipolar world again. While Canada will probably remain under America's thumb until the day America collapses, the erosion of American influence around the world would be a huge positive for humanity, especially given America's foreign policy has, in general, been "invade other countries/overthrow their governments and slurp up their precious lifeblood" to those who are way weaker than it.
Part of me hopes Trump wins a second term, if only for the sole reason that American hegemony will probably be gone, or close to by the time he leaves office.
by Stellar Colonies » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:55 pm
New Rogernomics wrote:It wouldn't have a positive impact for humanity, as the nation coming into the mix is militarily hostile to all its neighbors. This is probably the worst time for humanity since nuclear weapons came on the scene, and the weapons of today are far worse than those that existed during the cold war. America and China going to war, would end 'peace' for anyone, and the South China Sea dispute is rapidly getting worse as the years go on. A lot of folks think that America spontaneously weakening would make the world a better place, when in reality it's adversaries have their own geo-political and territorial ambitions.Luziyca wrote:As a Canadian, I am looking forward to the day that we at the very least get a bipolar world again. While Canada will probably remain under America's thumb until the day America collapses, the erosion of American influence around the world would be a huge positive for humanity, especially given America's foreign policy has, in general, been "invade other countries/overthrow their governments and slurp up their precious lifeblood" to those who are way weaker than it.
Part of me hopes Trump wins a second term, if only for the sole reason that American hegemony will probably be gone, or close to by the time he leaves office.
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Add 1200 years.
by The North America Union » Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:39 pm
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
Maybe you should rethink thecultural influence of the US and see how many things are in it.The cultural hegemony of the United States began in the 1980s.Compared with the Soviet Union, US's pwer in an advantageous position at that time.Maybe that history is too old for you.When the United States first landed on the moon, the economy improved ,the Soviet Union declined .Before that, there were a lot of people all over the world who yearned for communism rather than American culture.Cultural hegemony is a very complicated concept,american media's incorporation of politics into cultural products has begun to damage its influence.
CNN | O.A.S. supposedly considering intervention in post coup Suriname - U.S. embassy offciers being evacuated from Suriname | U.S. continues pressure against escalating Azerbaijan dictatorship
by Purpelia » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:37 pm
Stellar Colonies wrote:New Rogernomics wrote: It wouldn't have a positive impact for humanity, as the nation coming into the mix is militarily hostile to all its neighbors. This is probably the worst time for humanity since nuclear weapons came on the scene, and the weapons of today are far worse than those that existed during the cold war. America and China going to war, would end 'peace' for anyone, and the South China Sea dispute is rapidly getting worse as the years go on. A lot of folks think that America spontaneously weakening would make the world a better place, when in reality it's adversaries have their own geo-political and territorial ambitions.
And even if China didn't become fully dominant, a multi-polar world itself is inherently more unstable and prone to large conflicts (whether through actual warfare or otherwise).
by Picairn » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:44 pm
Purpelia wrote:On the contrary, a mutipolar world is better for everyone because the multiple powers keep each other from screwing the little guys too much. Just look at how many nations america has brutally heinously raped, destroying their everything and ruining the lives of their people over the decades since the Soviet Union collapsed.
by Purpelia » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:43 pm
Picairn wrote:Purpelia wrote:On the contrary, a mutipolar world is better for everyone because the multiple powers keep each other from screwing the little guys too much. Just look at how many nations america has brutally heinously raped, destroying their everything and ruining the lives of their people over the decades since the Soviet Union collapsed.
The Versailles - Washington system after WW1 (with 5 major empires: Britain, US, France, Japan, and Italy) showed us why a multi-polar world is a bad idea. It was unstable with huge quarrels between Japan and Italy vs the US and Britain, due to how the Washington Naval Treaty gave the US and UK an unfair advantage over the other two rising empires. Especially Japan, it wanted more.
by Shanghai industrial complex » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:08 am
Picairn wrote:Purpelia wrote:On the contrary, a mutipolar world is better for everyone because the multiple powers keep each other from screwing the little guys too much. Just look at how many nations america has brutally heinously raped, destroying their everything and ruining the lives of their people over the decades since the Soviet Union collapsed.
The Versailles - Washington system after WW1 (with 5 major empires: Britain, US, France, Japan, and Italy) showed us why a multi-polar world is a bad idea. It was unstable with huge quarrels between Japan and Italy vs the US and Britain, due to how the Washington Naval Treaty gave the US and UK an unfair advantage over the other two rising empires. Especially Japan, it wanted more.
by Cetacea » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:51 am
The North America Union wrote:Cetacea wrote:China is already influencing the output of Hollywood and C-Pop may well surf in on the back of the K-Pop wave - then where will your cultural influence be?
Oh and remember English isnt actually American
Don't believe I ever claimed English to be American...
This wasn't supposed to be a American vs. China argument (that you just made it into), the original question was if this is the end of American influence, and my personal answer is no. You seem to have taken a personal attack stance against me and the United States.
My response:
China is not a consumer state, it caters itself to other countries. A country that follows and caters, a country that limits expression and personal freedom, one where you do not have to innovate to succeed, will never be able to influence any country outside of economics. I don't believe the civilized western world (besides maybe Australia...) will be quick to suddenly switch to loving state owned Chinese movie companies and the typical movies they make that are at best copying the classic Hollywood suspense or action movie, but in some massive Chinese metropolis, and music that at best is copying the Koreans and how they achieved success. If anything, countries will begin reverting back to their own material, and stuff they know, not some new Chinese unoriginal, or maybe some true original but 'life lesson crap'.
And as for where "my" cultural influence will be, likely where it always has been, pro US countries (a lot of Europe) and most western civilized nations (as well as Latin America to a lesser extent).
May I ask your nationality to get a better understanding of your stance?
So long, and thanks for all the fish
by Dumb Ideologies » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:48 am
by Punished UMN » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:24 am
Stellar Colonies wrote:New Rogernomics wrote: It wouldn't have a positive impact for humanity, as the nation coming into the mix is militarily hostile to all its neighbors. This is probably the worst time for humanity since nuclear weapons came on the scene, and the weapons of today are far worse than those that existed during the cold war. America and China going to war, would end 'peace' for anyone, and the South China Sea dispute is rapidly getting worse as the years go on. A lot of folks think that America spontaneously weakening would make the world a better place, when in reality it's adversaries have their own geo-political and territorial ambitions.
And even if China didn't become fully dominant, a multi-polar world itself is inherently more unstable and prone to large conflicts (whether through actual warfare or otherwise).
by The North America Union » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:14 am
Cetacea wrote:
You have misunderstood my stance its not US v China per se but rather counter to your argument that China will never surpass the US cultural influence. It was you who made the statement “do you guys think that Europe... would be quick to latch on to Chinese or Russian movies or music”
I was pointing out that many Westerners already have latched on to Chinese music and Wuxia movies. As others have stated the US cultural influence in the global market has already shifted and Chinese consumers (and Chinese censors) are already becoming leading players in that global cultural influence. The shift in politics has lead to a decline in US hegemony and at the moment we cant really predict where the political pressures of China and even India, Africa and Europe will take things, especially given its rising influence of the Chinese young middle class.
The only thing that I am sure of is that English will remain the global lingua franca but cultural influence is moving ...
CNN | O.A.S. supposedly considering intervention in post coup Suriname - U.S. embassy offciers being evacuated from Suriname | U.S. continues pressure against escalating Azerbaijan dictatorship
by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:01 pm
Are there people in America who think it is wrong to send their troops to a foreign country ?Poltica wrote:So I'm going to start this by saying, yes, I'm an American, and no, this isn't all Trumps fault. The reason American hegemony and global influence is ending is because it is the natural order of things. No nation stays in its Golden Age for long, and America is seeing the effects of that. Yes, many of Trump's decisions have hastened America's downfall, but to say that this angry, orange man is the cause of all our problems is a lie. It is simply the fact that America never realized that its Golden Age ended a while ago. We have refused to adapt and have relied on the fact that the rest of the world looked at America as its big brother, someone to emulate. Now, the world tries to ignore America as it struggles with it getting its act together. While we basked in our glory, the Old World decided to catch up and surpass us. My hypothesis is that if Trump is reelected, America will collapse in the next few decades. If Trump is not elected, then, depending on the new President's choices, America might yet survive, or at the very least live for another century, but we won't see America be making the world's choices for it.
So, NSG, what do you think?
by Paleoconservative Nationalists » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:13 pm
Poltica wrote:So I'm going to start this by saying, yes, I'm an American, and no, this isn't all Trumps fault. The reason American hegemony and global influence is ending is because it is the natural order of things. No nation stays in its Golden Age for long, and America is seeing the effects of that. Yes, many of Trump's decisions have hastened America's downfall, but to say that this angry, orange man is the cause of all our problems is a lie. It is simply the fact that America never realized that its Golden Age ended a while ago. We have refused to adapt and have relied on the fact that the rest of the world looked at America as its big brother, someone to emulate. Now, the world tries to ignore America as it struggles with it getting its act together. While we basked in our glory, the Old World decided to catch up and surpass us. My hypothesis is that if Trump is reelected, America will collapse in the next few decades. If Trump is not elected, then, depending on the new President's choices, America might yet survive, or at the very least live for another century, but we won't see America be making the world's choices for it.
So, NSG, what do you think?
by Alcala-Cordel » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:33 pm
Paleoconservative Nationalists wrote:I hope America leaves the global sphere. The result of our internationalist and interventionist policies have resulted in total bloodbath worldwide.
I would say the most famous and most damning example of American interventionism is the Middle East. In this instance, I don't blame America for entering the Middle East. I blame Israel.
For America to start working on itself and make itself great again, we're going to have to cut all ties with Israel and shut down immigration forever.
by Luziyca » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:03 pm
New Rogernomics wrote:It wouldn't have a positive impact for humanity, as the nation coming into the mix is militarily hostile to all its neighbors. This is probably the worst time for humanity since nuclear weapons came on the scene, and the weapons of today are far worse than those that existed during the cold war. America and China going to war, would end 'peace' for anyone, and the South China Sea dispute is rapidly getting worse as the years go on. A lot of folks think that America spontaneously weakening would make the world a better place, when in reality it's adversaries have their own geo-political and territorial ambitions.Luziyca wrote:As a Canadian, I am looking forward to the day that we at the very least get a bipolar world again. While Canada will probably remain under America's thumb until the day America collapses, the erosion of American influence around the world would be a huge positive for humanity, especially given America's foreign policy has, in general, been "invade other countries/overthrow their governments and slurp up their precious lifeblood" to those who are way weaker than it.
Part of me hopes Trump wins a second term, if only for the sole reason that American hegemony will probably be gone, or close to by the time he leaves office.
by Torisakia » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:17 pm
[TNN] A cargo ship belonging to Torisakia disappeared off the coast of Kostane late Wednesday evening. TBI suspects foul play. || Congress passes a T$10 billion aid package for the Democratic Populist rebels in Kostane. To include firearms, vehicles, and artillery.
by Purpelia » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:46 pm
Punished UMN wrote:Just because there hasn't been a war between large, industrialized countries since the fall of the Soviet Union doesn't mean there haven't been large conflicts since then. Hell, the two largest conflicts since the end of WWII were both fought during the era of so-called hegemonic stability.
by Picairn » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:34 pm
Torisakia wrote:Pointless wars, treating healthcare like a privilege instead of a right, putting young adults into thousands of dollars in debt in the name of a "good education", it's just culminating to its demise.
by Purpelia » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:47 pm
Picairn wrote:The US tried to pull out of Iraq in 2011. ISIS propped up and dominated large swaths of land between Syria and Iraq. This should be the lesson to anyone who wants to pull troops out without considering the political and stability risks to the region.
Healthcare is definitely not treated like a privilege in America. There are dozens of different healthcare programs with different recipients and coverage like Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, Indian Health Service, Tricare, VA, FEHB, etc. and above all, Obamacare. It is a mishmash clusterfuck of bureaucracy with gaps in-between, but nonetheless, saying healthcare is treated like a privilege in America is grossly incorrect.
by Picairn » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:17 am
Purpelia wrote:Instabilities you your self created! The middle east was perfectly stable and calm before western powers started meddling in it. And each subsequent meddling incident only made it worse. Iraq was a perfectly stable and controlled nation before americans raped it because they wanted an oil colony and Syria was equally stable until you started bombing the legitimate government and funding terrorist insurgents. Your entire argument boils down to saying "We messed this place up so bad it needs oversight. So now our colonial troops should just stay forever." which is exactly the argument used by 19th century colonial armies in Africa.
Unless you live in a civilized nation and are starting at that mess from a position of civilization. In which case it looks not just like a privilege but frankly like something you only get if you win the lottery or something. You have to realize your healthcare "solution" looks absolutely barbaric to the rest of us.
by Punished UMN » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:33 am
Purpelia wrote:Punished UMN wrote:Just because there hasn't been a war between large, industrialized countries since the fall of the Soviet Union doesn't mean there haven't been large conflicts since then. Hell, the two largest conflicts since the end of WWII were both fought during the era of so-called hegemonic stability.
And than both of the great powers realized just how dangerous it is to do so and they stopped fighting serious wars for the next eternity. Right up until one went tits up. Seriously, Korea was an "OH SHIT WE MIGHT ACTUALLY GO TO WW3" moment for both of them. I am not sure what the other one is supposed to be.
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