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The End of American Hegemony (Or at Least Global Influence)

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Poltica
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The End of American Hegemony (Or at Least Global Influence)

Postby Poltica » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:14 pm

So I'm going to start this by saying, yes, I'm an American, and no, this isn't all Trumps fault. The reason American hegemony and global influence is ending is because it is the natural order of things. No nation stays in its Golden Age for long, and America is seeing the effects of that. Yes, many of Trump's decisions have hastened America's downfall, but to say that this angry, orange man is the cause of all our problems is a lie. It is simply the fact that America never realized that its Golden Age ended a while ago. We have refused to adapt and have relied on the fact that the rest of the world looked at America as its big brother, someone to emulate. Now, the world tries to ignore America as it struggles with it getting its act together. While we basked in our glory, the Old World decided to catch up and surpass us. My hypothesis is that if Trump is reelected, America will collapse in the next few decades. If Trump is not elected, then, depending on the new President's choices, America might yet survive, or at the very least live for another century, but we won't see America be making the world's choices for it.

So, NSG, what do you think?

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Postby Stellar Colonies » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:55 pm

Complete collapse is unlikely, and the US is just too large to become completely irrelevant, so it'll probably devolve into a great power among peers instead of the preeminent global superpower. Maybe some kind of regional power like Iran at minimum.
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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:01 pm

We still very much have a semblance of cultural hegemony, although certainly it has diminished since the turn of the century, it's ebbed and flowed, etc etc. The same goes for our economic prowess, while China has a strong amount of influence economically, particularly in the developing world, the US is still the predominant economic superpower in the world.

I could go on and on, our status as the superpower is still very much true, even if it's waning. That said - I don't think we can expect to be number one forever, and if we were to meet our match in terms of economic, cultural and military influence worldwide, I do hope the new contender isn't China, but it's incredibly likely that it will be.
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Postby Latvijas Otra Republika » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:02 pm

Your industries, multinational companies, banking institutions, fundamental cultural and media dominance, economic output and European reliance is the highest it’s ever been. If anything the rest of world is now America, thinking of American news and celebrities and focusing on the American lifestyle. Our governments now have American citizens, are bankrolled by America and impacted by lobbying.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:05 pm

I don't mind this, as this hegemony was mostly beneficial to powerful business interests, not to common citizens like myself.

The U.S. probably won't collapse though.
Last edited by The Reformed American Republic on Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:06 pm

Major-Tom wrote:We still very much have a semblance of cultural hegemony, although certainly it has diminished since the turn of the century, it's ebbed and flowed, etc etc. The same goes for our economic prowess, while China has a strong amount of influence economically, particularly in the developing world, the US is still the predominant economic superpower in the world.

I could go on and on, our status as the superpower is still very much true, even if it's waning. That said - I don't think we can expect to be number one forever, and if we were to meet our match in terms of economic, cultural and military influence worldwide, I do hope the new contender isn't China, but it's incredibly likely that it will be.


Not really. China is and has always been a paper tiger. We overestimate their strength just like we did the Soviets.
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-Ocelot-
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Postby -Ocelot- » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:10 pm

I wouldn't be so sure just yet but if America loses its grip on the world, all these anti-americans will finally get to live in a post-"American imperialism" world. Firmly under China's and Russia's boots. Probably not going to happen, though.
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Poltica
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Postby Poltica » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:11 pm

Latvijas Otra Republika wrote:Your industries, multinational companies, banking institutions, fundamental cultural and media dominance, economic output and European reliance is the highest it’s ever been. If anything the rest of world is now America, thinking of American news and celebrities and focusing on the American lifestyle. Our governments now have American citizens, are bankrolled by America and impacted by lobbying.
No, not in a thousand years will America spiral down.

Well, it is only a hypothesis. Anything could happen.

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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:40 pm

The U.S. has been in a slow decline as a superpower for some time now, and it's great! We've been terrorizing the world with impunity for far too long.

That being said, I'm sure some other nation will take our place.
Last edited by Alcala-Cordel on Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:55 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:The U.S. has been in a slow decline as a superpower for some time now, and it's great! We've been terrorizing the world with impunity for far too long.

That being said, I'm sure some other nation will take our place.

If the opportunity arises, that would be Russia and/or China, and if anything, they will be worse.
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Alcala-Cordel
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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:59 pm

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:The U.S. has been in a slow decline as a superpower for some time now, and it's great! We've been terrorizing the world with impunity for far too long.

That being said, I'm sure some other nation will take our place.

If the opportunity arises, that would be Russia and/or China, and if anything, they will be worse.

Eh. When it comes to foreign policy, we're no better than they are. If anything, we're more imperialistic than they are.
Last edited by Alcala-Cordel on Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:07 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:If the opportunity arises, that would be Russia and/or China, and if anything, they will be worse.

Eh. When it comes to foreign policy, we're no better than they are.


America's foreign policy could definitely use work but at least we don't make journalists disappear, poison dissidents, commit literal ethnic cleansing and brainwashing, or harass critics with spies and hackers.

You're off your fucking rocker if you think either China or Russia would be just as bad as the USA. Handing the world over to either of them is putting a nail in the coffin of liberty, justice, and democracy across the globe. We need to shape up; not give up.
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:08 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:If anything, we're more imperialistic than they are.


Russia and China have literally expanded their territory in the past 10 years and are still trying to grab more.

The last territorial acquisition by the U.S. was almost 100 years ago. You're smoking crack.
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Postby Ansarre » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:14 pm

America is going down the drain sadly, thanks in part to the disastrous foreign policies of the Obama and Trump administrations. A Federal Europe is now necessary more than ever to fill the liberal void that will be opened up when America goes full isolationist in the coming decades.
Unless the Neoconservatives see an unlikely resurgence in the next few presidential elections, it is over for America.
Last edited by Ansarre on Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Poltica
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Postby Poltica » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:19 pm

Ansarre wrote:America is going down the drain sadly, thanks in part to the disastrous foreign policies of the Obama and Trump administrations. A Federal Europe is now necessary more than ever to fill the liberal void that will be opened up when America goes full isolationist in the coming decades.
Unless the Neoconservatives see an unlikely resurgence in the next few presidential elections, it is over for America.

My belief is that a total overhaul of the American government is needed. Not a communist or capitalist system, but one more akin to the EU, with each member of our Union having an official voice in the governance of the country. Not like the Articles of Confederation, but something similar.

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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:28 pm

Poltica wrote:
Ansarre wrote:America is going down the drain sadly, thanks in part to the disastrous foreign policies of the Obama and Trump administrations. A Federal Europe is now necessary more than ever to fill the liberal void that will be opened up when America goes full isolationist in the coming decades.
Unless the Neoconservatives see an unlikely resurgence in the next few presidential elections, it is over for America.

My belief is that a total overhaul of the American government is needed. Not a communist or capitalist system, but one more akin to the EU, with each member of our Union having an official voice in the governance of the country. Not like the Articles of Confederation, but something similar.

Something that would help us form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity? Something like that?
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Poltica
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Postby Poltica » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:34 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Poltica wrote:My belief is that a total overhaul of the American government is needed. Not a communist or capitalist system, but one more akin to the EU, with each member of our Union having an official voice in the governance of the country. Not like the Articles of Confederation, but something similar.

Something that would help us form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity? Something like that?

I'm not saying we throw out the Constitution, but change how the government runs. The fact that the two-party system still exists makes this impossible, considering neither party would endorse something that would hurt their own power.

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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:38 pm

Poltica wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Something that would help us form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity? Something like that?

I'm not saying we throw out the Constitution, but change how the government runs. The fact that the two-party system still exists makes this impossible, considering neither party would endorse something that would hurt their own power.

I don't know, "a total overhaul of the American government is needed" kind of tells me you do think we should throw out the Constitution.
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:43 pm

Poltica wrote:
Ansarre wrote:America is going down the drain sadly, thanks in part to the disastrous foreign policies of the Obama and Trump administrations. A Federal Europe is now necessary more than ever to fill the liberal void that will be opened up when America goes full isolationist in the coming decades.
Unless the Neoconservatives see an unlikely resurgence in the next few presidential elections, it is over for America.

My belief is that a total overhaul of the American government is needed. Not a communist or capitalist system, but one more akin to the EU, with each member of our Union having an official voice in the governance of the country. Not like the Articles of Confederation, but something similar.


Not really no. What needs an overhaul is our attitude towards corporations, nationalism, and most importantly our educational system.
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Postby Nilokeras » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:45 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:America's foreign policy could definitely use work but at least we don't make journalists disappear, poison dissidents, commit literal ethnic cleansing and brainwashing, or harass critics with spies and hackers.


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Postby Sundiata » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:50 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:The U.S. has been in a slow decline as a superpower for some time now, and it's great! We've been terrorizing the world with impunity for far too long.

That being said, I'm sure some other nation will take our place.

The United States government is not morally equivalent to a terrorist organization.
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Poltica
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Postby Poltica » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:50 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Poltica wrote:I'm not saying we throw out the Constitution, but change how the government runs. The fact that the two-party system still exists makes this impossible, considering neither party would endorse something that would hurt their own power.

I don't know, "a total overhaul of the American government is needed" kind of tells me you do think we should throw out the Constitution.

The freedoms outlined in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution is fine. What the Constitution doesn't say is that we should be divided into two parties. Either split the senate into several parties, or eliminate the system all together. The electoral college is also useless. What it does is make it so that small, country towns end up with more votes than the large cities if there are a large amount of counties with only a few towns in it, as their delegates go to whoever those small town voters chose, instead of the majority in the city.

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Poltica
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Postby Poltica » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:52 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:The U.S. has been in a slow decline as a superpower for some time now, and it's great! We've been terrorizing the world with impunity for far too long.

That being said, I'm sure some other nation will take our place.

The United States government is not morally equivalent to a terrorist organization.

Ask the people living in the ME who we've bombed for the last decade. Or the citizens of the South and Central American nations who's governments we toppled because their way of life did not suit our needs. Our "freedom" that we bring to nations often throws them into chaos, while we wipe our hands and say, "good job."

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Postby Tokora » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:53 pm

I think we should've waited until either Europe or India to be strong enough to pass the torch to. Not looking forward to Pax Xinping.

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Latvijas Otra Republika
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Postby Latvijas Otra Republika » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:54 pm

Ansarre wrote:America is going down the drain sadly, thanks in part to the disastrous foreign policies of the Obama and Trump administrations. A Federal Europe is now necessary more than ever to fill the liberal void that will be opened up when America goes full isolationist in the coming decades.
Unless the Neoconservatives see an unlikely resurgence in the next few presidential elections, it is over for America.

Since you un-ironically a neocon, do you even live in Europe?
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