What should Silesia do?

[Reverend Norv]

If you want to leave Poland, go ahead, and hope that the Silesians also have the same view as you, or Poland and Czechia decides to give you the green light.

My race/people(Karen people, search that up) were horribly treated(genocide, war) by the Burmese during the 1940s-80s. We created a liberation army. Our first goal was to gain independence, or join Thailand. We realised that that was too unrealistic, because you know the Burmese. So, we changed our goal to gaining autonomy, or world recognition.

It may or may not have worked, but hey, we tried. If your dreams of independence are too far fetched, aim for autonomy.

I assumed from your sig that you meant Karen as in the meme and your Discord name sounds Korean. My bad. Your people could try rocking the political boat in Myanmar by demanding a Myanmar for all ethnicities to the point where Yangon decides to expel your homeland like what happened to Singapore in 1965 when UMNO grew tired of the PAP's rabble-rousing.

To the OP, I say it's entirely up to you. Your people's right to self-determination is absolute and sacrosanct. Don't ever let anyone else tell you otherwise. I did not answer the poll because it's not for me to say as I don't have a personal beef in this fight as I do with HK, Taiwan, and Sarawak.

Generally speaking, the more persecuted the inhabitants of a region are, the stronger their case for independence is.

The KNU has been literally fighting for an independent Kawthoolei since 1949. Since the 1970s, it has been instrumental in building multiethnic coalitions to demand federalism and respect for the rights of all nationalities. Tens of thousands have died. The Union military has made it quite clear that it would rather drag the country to wrack and ruin than permit the nationalities self-determination. Even under current conditions of quasi-civilian government, if Nay Pyi Taw ever voluntarily tried to expel Kawthoolei, the Tatmadaw would simply stage another coup like in 1962.

As applied to Silesia - the lesson is as our Karen friend pointed out. The right of self-determination may indeed be sacrosanct. But there is a difference between possessing a right, and possessing the power to assert it successfully. Especially for a relatively small region like Silesia, political strategy will count for more than the moral high ground.

[Latvijas Otra Republika]

Form a union with Northumbria.

grog think gregg tribe best? Pony tribe bestest. Grog is small head-berry picker

[Outer Sparta]

I'm not sure if Silesian separatism has as much support as other separatist movements in Basque Country, Catalonia, Scotland, and Flanders. Maybe if you provide links or polling, then we can see the bigger picture.

[KingFerdinand1]

IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, Silesia Should Be Independent If They Want To, Mr Donald Trump As An All American Man Would Believe In People Determining There Own Faiths And Help Them.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

If you want to leave Poland, go ahead, and hope that the Silesians also have the same view as you, or Poland and Czechia decides to give you the green light.

My race/people(Karen people, search that up) were horribly treated(genocide, war) by the Burmese during the 1940s-80s. We created a liberation army. Our first goal was to gain independence, or join Thailand. We realised that that was too unrealistic, because you know the Burmese. So, we changed our goal to gaining autonomy, or world recognition.

It may or may not have worked, but hey, we tried. If your dreams of independence are too far fetched, aim for autonomy.

I assumed from your sig that you meant Karen as in the meme and your Discord name sounds Korean. My bad. Your people could try rocking the political boat in Myanmar by demanding a Myanmar for all ethnicities to the point where Yangon decides to expel your homeland like what happened to Singapore in 1965 when UMNO grew tired of the PAP's rabble-rousing.

To the OP, I say it's entirely up to you. Your people's right to self-determination is absolute and sacrosanct. Don't ever let anyone else tell you otherwise. I did not answer the poll because it's not for me to say as I don't have a personal beef in this fight as I do with HK, Taiwan, and Sarawak.

Generally speaking, the more persecuted the inhabitants of a region are, the stronger their case for independence is.

I mean, their nation name is Twicetagram and JYPE, Twicetagram being the name of an album of a K-Pop group and JYPE being JYP Entertainment. So I think you are spot on guessing the discord name was Korean, unless I’m wrong.

As for my opinion on Silesia, I’m going to wait for the opinion polls for more thoughts. But seeing as we have a pretty big ethnic group of our own that was demanding more autonomy (the Bangsamoros, their movement succeeded), I do think that granting the Silesians greater autonomy would be the best path unless a significant majority of Silesians wish to leave Poland.

[Major-Tom]

Whatever y'all want to do.

[Nuroblav]

If they wish to be independent, then they should be.

[Rhein-Zollverein]

Silesia is ethnically German, recent Polish anti-German activities have changed the demographic however.

[Katovice]

Silesia is ethnically German, recent Polish anti-German activities have changed the demographic however.

Lower Silesia was more thoroughly Germanised, and thus lacks any native non-German population (pre-1945). But Upper Silesia (Horní Slezsko) and much of Opole has always been Slavic, i.e. non-German. Even if not a majority everywhere, then a significant minority. Remember that Germans (from Prussia/German Empire) were relative newcomers (after 1742).

Let’s clarify that we ethnic Silesians are not Poles, whom we call „gorole” meaning “outsiders”. We’re a distinct Slavic-speaking group. And Poland has done some terrible things against our Silesian culture (especially after 1945), so we too despise what the Poles did after 1945. But the whole reason that pro-Polish sentiment gained traction during the end of the XIX and beginning of the XX century was our treatment at the hands of the Germans, which included the suppression of native Slavic (Silesian) cultural tendencies, etc. The problem was that Poland turned out no better from the prior German situation (for us Silesians).

The lesson to be taken away from all of this (at least for those who sympathise with Silesia/ethnic Silesians) is that BOTH Germany and Poland are horrible options, because both countries (albeit differently), undermined/undermine our culture, our independence, our land, etc.

The only existing Slavic state (IRL) that appears to acknowledge Silesia as a distinct nation/ethnicity is… Czechia. I don’t need to go on about the historical connection between Silesia and the Czech crown (Bohemia), Czech cultural influences in our speech, etc.
Let me just present 1 very obvious contemporary example of Czech-Silesian compatibility: The fact is that the Czechs acknowledge „Sleszko” as one of the 3 historical components of the Czech state, along with Čechy (Bohemia in Latin/English) and Morava (Moravia).

I'm personally against Silesian autonomy within either Poland or Germany, because neither state will ever give it to us. Trying the same old thing and hoping for a different result, well that’s just crazy. It’s time to try something new.

Separatism won’t work because we Silesians don’t want sovereignty, just autonomy within a friendly state.

Finally, lots of Silesians sympathise with Czechs and Czech mentality. Ask any of us. Silesian and Czech temperaments are similar. We like peace and quiet, orderly towns, and we prefer to avoid conflict. We live and let live, similar to the Czechs. We don’t engage in rural religious superstition. All of what I described starkly contrasts with the confrontational, loud, religiously fanatical, disorderly Poles, whose greatest attribute is their numerous kamikaze-like, failed uprisings.

So, any new Silesian movement would simply need to capitalise on the Czechophile sentiments, opposition to Polish exploitation, and a desire to avoid Germanisation. That’s neither a difficult formula nor a complex message.

Over 847000 persons declared Silesian nationality during the last Polish census (2011), an increase from 173000 (2002). That’s a significant number of people who already declare themselves as a separate nationality from Poland. Add to the mix the current political mess within Poland, and you just need to make the message clear, appealing, and organised.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

Over 847000 persons declared Silesian nationality during the last Polish census (2011), an increase from 173000 (2002). That’s a significant number of people who already declare themselves as a separate nationality from Poland. Add to the mix the current political mess within Poland, and you just need to make the message clear, appealing, and organised.

Did Silesia vote majority against PiS?

[The Islands of Versilia]

If Silesia is more culturally and ethnically similar to its Czech neighbours, then Polish Silesia should become part of Czechia. Neither Poland, nor especially Germany, have any real claim to Silesia without the consent of the Silesian nation. If the Silesian people deserve more autonomy, then they deserve more autonomy. If they wish to become part of another state that they believe will more respect their ways of life and customs, then who is Warsaw to reject their wishes?

[Liburia]

Silesia is ethnically German, recent Polish anti-German activities have changed the demographic however.

Lower Silesia was more thoroughly Germanised, and thus lacks any native non-German population (pre-1945). But Upper Silesia (Horní Slezsko) and much of Opole has always been Slavic, i.e. non-German. Even if not a majority everywhere, then a significant minority. Remember that Germans (from Prussia/German Empire) were relative newcomers (after 1742).

Let’s clarify that we ethnic Silesians are not Poles, whom we call „gorole” meaning “outsiders”. We’re a distinct Slavic-speaking group. And Poland has done some terrible things against our Silesian culture (especially after 1945), so we too despise what the Poles did after 1945. But the whole reason that pro-Polish sentiment gained traction during the end of the XIX and beginning of the XX century was our treatment at the hands of the Germans, which included the suppression of native Slavic (Silesian) cultural tendencies, etc. The problem was that Poland turned out no better from the prior German situation (for us Silesians).

The lesson to be taken away from all of this (at least for those who sympathise with Silesia/ethnic Silesians) is that BOTH Germany and Poland are horrible options, because both countries (albeit differently), undermined/undermine our culture, our independence, our land, etc.

The only existing Slavic state (IRL) that appears to acknowledge Silesia as a distinct nation/ethnicity is… Czechia. I don’t need to go on about the historical connection between Silesia and the Czech crown (Bohemia), Czech cultural influences in our speech, etc.
Let me just present 1 very obvious contemporary example of Czech-Silesian compatibility: The fact is that the Czechs acknowledge „Sleszko” as one of the 3 historical components of the Czech state, along with Čechy (Bohemia in Latin/English) and Morava (Moravia).

I'm personally against Silesian autonomy within either Poland or Germany, because neither state will ever give it to us. Trying the same old thing and hoping for a different result, well that’s just crazy. It’s time to try something new.

Separatism won’t work because we Silesians don’t want sovereignty, just autonomy within a friendly state.

Finally, lots of Silesians sympathise with Czechs and Czech mentality. Ask any of us. Silesian and Czech temperaments are similar. We like peace and quiet, orderly towns, and we prefer to avoid conflict. We live and let live, similar to the Czechs. We don’t engage in rural religious superstition. All of what I described starkly contrasts with the confrontational, loud, religiously fanatical, disorderly Poles, whose greatest attribute is their numerous kamikaze-like, failed uprisings.

So, any new Silesian movement would simply need to capitalise on the Czechophile sentiments, opposition to Polish exploitation, and a desire to avoid Germanisation. That’s neither a difficult formula nor a complex message.

Over 847000 persons declared Silesian nationality during the last Polish census (2011), an increase from 173000 (2002). That’s a significant number of people who already declare themselves as a separate nationality from Poland. Add to the mix the current political mess within Poland, and you just need to make the message clear, appealing, and organised.

Personally I don't have a problem with the transfer of Silesia to Czechia. Even if a majority of Silesians want that you said that Poland wouldn't even give you autonomy so they would definitely not give the land to another country. Also, would Czechia even want this transfer? In the end the situation would stay the same.

[Purpelia]

Out of curiosity just what if any wrongs and atrocities are being committed by the poles right now? I mean, things must be pretty horrible right this instant if you want to leave.
I am asking because reading this thread all I saw was listings of past wrongs and historical things as opposed to any demonstrable example of why things are bad right this moment in the here and now.

[Katovice]

Out of curiosity just what if any wrongs and atrocities are being committed by the poles right now? I mean, things must be pretty horrible right this instant if you want to leave.
I am asking because reading this thread all I saw was listings of past wrongs and historical things as opposed to any demonstrable example of why things are bad right this moment in the here and now.

Would you say that the English are committing any atrocities against the Scots right now (or for the last 50 years or so)? And yet Scottish nationalism/separatism from the UK is a big thing over there.

To put it simply, post-1990 Poland continues to pursue policies that are designed against Silesian autonomy and Silesian culture. Not in the form of atrocities or some egregious wrongs. But the whole picture remains the same: Poland uses us for resource extraction, opening and closing coal mines and other industry on a whim. If a new industry is to be opened, then damn the ecological consequence. If a coal mine or other industrial establishment is to be closed, who cares how many people will be out of work. The point is that we Silesians have no say. It’s all in the hands of Warsaw and gorole (non-Silesians, i.e. Poles).

100 years ago, it appeared that Polish and Silesian interests could converge (liberation from Germany). Nowadays, Silesian and Polish interests are as disparate as ever. Something has to change, and we need to be free of Poland.

[Sundiata]

Generally speaking, I oppose independence movements but do not oppose devolution.

[Endem]

Well, personally I can tell you, if Silesians want it then why not give them autonomy.

however, looking at it realistically Poland will never let go of Silesia since it is the highly industrialized region of Poland, if the Polish government ceded it to Czechia or Germany it would be as if a person decided to chop off his leg and then stand up, he'd fall, and that is besides PiS leadership taking steps towards dictatorship.

As a last note, I was personally to Katowice twice, and I haven't saw any cultural supression, furthermore, there are museums dedicated to preserving and celebrating Silesian culture.


Post Scriptum, Hi from Mazovia

[Katovice]

Well, personally I can tell you, if Silesians want it then why not give them autonomy.

however, looking at it realistically Poland will never let go of Silesia since it is the highly industrialized region of Poland, if the Polish government ceded it to Czechia or Germany it would be as if a person decided to chop off his leg and then stand up, he'd fall, and that is besides PiS leadership taking steps towards dictatorship.

As a last note, I was personally to Katowice twice, and I haven't saw any cultural supression, furthermore, there are museums dedicated to preserving and celebrating Silesian culture.


Post Scriptum, Hi from Mazovia

Museums are like tombs for the dead. It’s part of the effort to turn Silesian identity into a fun novelty for visitors.

As for (Upper) Silesia leaving Poland. Well, if Poland suffers because of this, that suffering is well-deserved. In fact, if the Polish state would collapse because of the loss of Silesia, then good riddance to a historical dumpster fire.

[Luziyca]

I'll admit to knowing nothing about this, but as a general rule I think anyone who wants independence should have it, and as Poland is becoming increasingly illiberal, I can definitely sympathize with Silesia if they want something better.

Ditto. If the people want independence, who am I to judge?

[The Bright Hand Imperium]

Silesia is ethnically German, recent Polish anti-German activities have changed the demographic however.

Most of Poland belongs to Germany anyways, and the Polish population in rightful German lands should be all given the boot before being ceded over to Germany.

[The Islands of Versilia]

Silesia is ethnically German, recent Polish anti-German activities have changed the demographic however.

Most of Poland belongs to Germany anyways, and the Polish population in rightful German lands should be all given the boot before being ceded over to Germany.

Nah.

[The Blaatschapen]

Silesia is ethnically German, recent Polish anti-German activities have changed the demographic however.

Most of Poland belongs to Germany anyways, and the Polish population in rightful German lands should be all given the boot before being ceded over to Germany.

Germany signed away all claims to the area back in 1990. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2 ... der_Treaty

It was part of the deal for a German reunification of West and East Germany.

[Purpelia]

Would you say that the English are committing any atrocities against the Scots right now (or for the last 50 years or so)? And yet Scottish nationalism/separatism from the UK is a big thing over there.

I would say that if they don't than the whole thing is rather silly. Trading a golden cage for a mud hut is newer a good trade irregardless of if the hut is all yours.

To put it simply, post-1990 Poland continues to pursue policies that are designed against Silesian autonomy and Silesian culture. Not in the form of atrocities or some egregious wrongs. But the whole picture remains the same: Poland uses us for resource extraction, opening and closing coal mines and other industry on a whim. If a new industry is to be opened, then damn the ecological consequence. If a coal mine or other industrial establishment is to be closed, who cares how many people will be out of work. The point is that we Silesians have no say. It’s all in the hands of Warsaw and gorole (non-Silesians, i.e. Poles).

Isn't that what every capitalist government does anyway? That literally does not sound worse than anything you normally expect in a normal country.

100 years ago, it appeared that Polish and Silesian interests could converge (liberation from Germany). Nowadays, Silesian and Polish interests are as disparate as ever. Something has to change, and we need to be free of Poland.

But again, what are they actually doing to you that an independent government wouldn't do as well? Following a capitalist economic policy is hardly an atrocity.

[Endem]

Well, personally I can tell you, if Silesians want it then why not give them autonomy.

however, looking at it realistically Poland will never let go of Silesia since it is the highly industrialized region of Poland, if the Polish government ceded it to Czechia or Germany it would be as if a person decided to chop off his leg and then stand up, he'd fall, and that is besides PiS leadership taking steps towards dictatorship.

As a last note, I was personally to Katowice twice, and I haven't saw any cultural supression, furthermore, there are museums dedicated to preserving and celebrating Silesian culture.


Post Scriptum, Hi from Mazovia

Museums are like tombs for the dead. It’s part of the effort to turn Silesian identity into a fun novelty for visitors.

As for (Upper) Silesia leaving Poland. Well, if Poland suffers because of this, that suffering is well-deserved. In fact, if the Polish state would collapse because of the loss of Silesia, then good riddance to a historical dumpster fire.

Then you are accusing every nation on Earth who decided to make a museum for their history, culture, or a minority culture in the country, or of, I dunno, archeology, of making that thing a "fun novelty for visitors"

And that is also the reason, realistically, why Poland will not let go of Silesia, because it would be shooting yourself in the foot.

[Ansarre]

Leave. Now. My advice to all Polish. The elections have damned you all to years of hell.

Almost half of Silesias voted for Duda and PiS have 22 seats in the Silesian legislature.

[Cisairse]

selesia should become independent and then invade poland