NationStates

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Thursday that much of eastern Oklahoma (including Tulsa) is located on an Indian reservation.

In a 5-4 ruling, the justices declared that Congress never diminished or disestablished the land as a reservation and that the stae lacks the authority to prosecute tribal members for major crimes committed in the area, instead they must be prosecuted by the federal government in accordance with the Major Crimes Act.

In a joint statement, the State of Oklahoma, Muscogee (Creek), Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, and Seminole Nations said they will work together to move forward after the Supreme Court’s decision. “The Nations and the State are committed to implementing a framework of shared jurisdiction that will preserve sovereign interests and rights to self-government while affirming jurisdictional understandings, procedures, laws, and regulations that support public safety, our economy, and private property rights,” the statement read. “We will continue our work, confident that we can accomplish more together than any of us could alone.”

The majority opinion points out assistance with homeland security, historical preservation, schools, highways, clinics, housing, and nutrition programs, as possible changes from the perspective of State law.

The dissenting opinion was that decision would destabilise Oklahomas governance and that Congress by making Indians citizens had effecticely disestablished the Reservation by intent.

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) had a more direct statement of opposition to the opinion ― making clear that he viewed the decision as taking away land from Oklahoma, rather than an acknowledgment that it wasn’t Oklahoma’s to begin with.

So what do you all think wagon trainers of NSG, I think that this is a truely historic moment and that the original promise of the Civilised Tribes living in partnership with the new settlers might now be achievable if everyone is willing to work together and the US Government is able to keep the promises it made and honour its treaties.

Oooh now do the rest of the continent.

So…what does this mean, exactly?

The ruling is good. Ted Cruz is a piece of shit.

Soiled fruit roll ups wrote:Oooh now do the rest of the continent.

That is not feasable.

Kowani wrote:So…what does this mean, exactly?

We're not exactly sure.
It does mean, at the very least, that there's jurisdiction issues with law enforcement. Everything else is up in the air, and it could turn into a giant clusterfuck really easily. Depends on whether the government of Oklahoma and the tribes involved try to deal with each other honestly in good faith, or not.

Kowani wrote:So…what does this mean, exactly?

It means in areas that either by treaty or congressional act were declared Indian country, are still Indian country for the purposes of criminal prosecution of tribal citizens until congress or another treaty explicitly says otherwise.

For those wondering who the issue arose there was a reservation in the area and then congress passed the allotment act which gave the land to individual Indian families who definitely weren't scammed out of their land by white people. Ok maybe they were. Does this drastically change anything ? No though some tribal citizens in those areas will be able to insist on a federal rather than state trial for certain criminal charges.

In this case a man who raped a 4 year old has his conviction thrown out.

Diopolis wrote:

Kowani wrote:So…what does this mean, exactly?

We're not exactly sure.
It does mean, at the very least, that there's jurisdiction issues with law enforcement. Everything else is up in the air, and it could turn into a giant clusterfuck really easily. Depends on whether the government of Oklahoma and the tribes involved try to deal with each other honestly in good faith, or not.

Hmm. That’s worrisome.

Kowani wrote:

Diopolis wrote:We're not exactly sure.
It does mean, at the very least, that there's jurisdiction issues with law enforcement. Everything else is up in the air, and it could turn into a giant clusterfuck really easily. Depends on whether the government of Oklahoma and the tribes involved try to deal with each other honestly in good faith, or not.

Hmm. That’s worrisome.

The good news is that they can't redistribute all the land in Oklahoma.
The bad news is, well, the jurisdiction with law enforcement.
My gut feeling leans pretty strongly on the "nothing meaningful happens except native criminals get sent to a separate court".

Kowani wrote:So…what does this mean, exactly?

Well, legally what it means is that basically everywhere in Eastern Ok except maybe Tulsa is a Native American Reservation/Land and subject to all the rules and policies that most reservations have and/or abide under.

Realistically? Nothing much, probably just that Amerindian criminals get sent to seperate jails, or that a lot of Amerindians in the area now get a bigger cut of the tribal earnings than they did before. Other than that this is more symbolic than anything.

Diopolis wrote:

Kowani wrote:So…what does this mean, exactly?

We're not exactly sure.
It does mean, at the very least, that there's jurisdiction issues with law enforcement. Everything else is up in the air, and it could turn into a giant clusterfuck really easily. Depends on whether the government of Oklahoma and the tribes involved try to deal with each other honestly in good faith, or not.

Oh, no worries then. The United States have a long history of dealing with indigenous people in good faith.


...wait.

Quick Oklahomans, open up some casinos while you can!

Cannot think of a name wrote:

Diopolis wrote:We're not exactly sure.
It does mean, at the very least, that there's jurisdiction issues with law enforcement. Everything else is up in the air, and it could turn into a giant clusterfuck really easily. Depends on whether the government of Oklahoma and the tribes involved try to deal with each other honestly in good faith, or not.

Oh, no worries then. The United States have a long history of dealing with indigenous people in good faith.


...wait.

At least nobody appears terribly incentivized to try to change the current setup overly much.

Diopolis wrote:

Kowani wrote:Hmm. That’s worrisome.

The good news is that they can't redistribute all the land in Oklahoma.
The bad news is, well, the jurisdiction with law enforcement.
My gut feeling leans pretty strongly on the "nothing meaningful happens except native criminals get sent to a separate court".

I suspect long term congress may act.

so what no does that mean Tulsa is now infringing upon sovereign native american land?

Catsfern wrote:so what no does that mean Tulsa is now infringing upon sovereign native american land?

Hey I know, make the Tulsans sign a treaty with the tribe, they could sell the city for some glass beads and move to a reservation somewhere.

Soiled fruit roll ups wrote:Oooh now do the rest of the continent.

Start with the Paha Sapa.

US-SSR wrote:

Catsfern wrote:so what no does that mean Tulsa is now infringing upon sovereign native american land?

Hey I know, make the Tulsans sign a treaty with the tribe, they could sell the city for some glass beads and move to a reservation somewhere.

I can just imagine... the mayor gets a letter from a lawyer claiming they're on the hook for a century of back taxes...

Let's all go to East Oklahoma and indian dance around a campfire to Come and get your love by Redbone.

The pipeline ruling, this, the Washington Redskins name change...you think there's a Native American somewhere going, "Goddamn, apparently dealing with the black issue in America is so uncomfortable they went and cleared up some of our shit just to feel like they did something..."

So instead of more integration,.. this. Oh and it was all over letting a child rapist walk... lovely. Still a lot of questions though.

Also. This whole mess opened up here, could get politically... ugly.

Cannot think of a name wrote:The pipeline ruling, this, the Washington Redskins name change...you think there's a Native American somewhere going, "Goddamn, apparently dealing with the black issue in America is so uncomfortable they went and cleared up some of our shit just to feel like they did something..."

Lmao.

So the Supreme Court just gave away half your state without consent or a care that you've lived there for 100+ years? Don't worry your new Native American Overlords will treat you well. Ignore the fact they make up less than 15% of the population in the new reservation, and the fact they didn't care before now or anything.

Not like the governor won't send the national guard to retake his state's rightful territory, or other States joining them. This is all going to end well for everyone involved!

Christian Confederation wrote:So the Supreme Court just gave away half your state without consent or a care that you've lived there for 100+ years? Don't worry your new Native American Overlords will treat you well. Ignore the fact they make up less than 15% of the population in the new reservation, and the fact they didn't care before now or anything.

You probably didn't...not quite the same.

Christian Confederation wrote:Not like the governor won't send the national guard to retake his state's rightful territory, or other States joining them. This is all going to end well for everyone involved!

Hahaha...fucking what?

Christian Confederation wrote:So the Supreme Court just gave away half your state without consent or a care that you've lived there for 100+ years? Don't worry your new Native American Overlords will treat you well. Ignore the fact they make up less than 15% of the population in the new reservation, and the fact they didn't care before now or anything.

Not like the governor won't send the national guard to retake his state's rightful territory, or other States joining them. This is all going to end well for everyone involved!

It's not like they split off East Oklahoma to create the independent native ethnostate of Sequoyah.

Cannot think of a name wrote:

Christian Confederation wrote:So the Supreme Court just gave away half your state without consent or a care that you've lived there for 100+ years? Don't worry your new Native American Overlords will treat you well. Ignore the fact they make up less than 15% of the population in the new reservation, and the fact they didn't care before now or anything.

You probably didn't...not quite the same.

Christian Confederation wrote:Not like the governor won't send the national guard to retake his state's rightful territory, or other States joining them. This is all going to end well for everyone involved!

Hahaha...fucking what?

Newsflash buddy The citizens of Oklahoma aren't just going to take this. There will be backlash and there will be a response and it won't be pretty