the future of cities and centralised living

[Upper Nan]

…That’s not really evidence of what you think it is. Everyone brings their culture with them when they move. It’s how cultures mix.

That's really not what people want them to do though. Nor is it what you are supposed to do. When you move to another place you are supposed to make an effort to leave your old culture behind and assimilate into your new one so as to not ruin that place for those already living there.

How so?

Governments won't collapse. And if they do they will be replaced by new ones. Or by identically looking but differently named substitutes. Humans by their nature are a social species and thus congregate in groups. And groups naturally create hierarchical systems of power. You don't even need huge groups for this either. Just look at any group of say 20 - 30 people. Just enough for there to be subgroups. You'll immediately see cliques and a pecking order. School classes are a good example of this.

I didn't say governments would collapse, I said centralized governments would collapse--as in, large, centralized states. Of course some form of government would still exist, I'm not an idiot.

[Plzen]

I suspect it’s very unlikely that centralized government will collapse, as long as human civilisation continues to technologically and economically progress.

With the advance of technology, the ability of people to interfere in the lives of many other people far away has drastically improved. Two thousand years ago an American native farmer couldn’t possibly care less what his counterpart in Rome might be up to, but today the American office worker is directly affected by pollution from Chinese factories, ethnic disputes in the Middle East, and the European Union’s customs and tariff policies.

As technology advances, humanity is confronted with problems of larger and larger scale that will require the cooperation of larger and larger numbers of people to effectively solve. There is thus a need for social institutions of larger and larger scope to coordinate these numbers of people. Whether or not such institutions call themselves governments, that is what they would effectively be.

[Upper Nan]

I suspect it’s very unlikely that centralized government will collapse, as long as human civilisation continues to technologically and economically progress.

With the advance of technology, the ability of people to interfere in the lives of many other people far away has drastically improved. Two thousand years ago an American native farmer couldn’t possibly care less what his counterpart in Rome might be up to, but today the American office worker is directly affected by pollution from Chinese factories, ethnic disputes in the Middle East, and the European Union’s customs and tariff policies.

As technology advances, humanity is confronted with problems of larger and larger scale that will require the cooperation of larger and larger numbers of people to effectively solve. There is thus a need for social institutions of larger and larger scope to coordinate these numbers of people. Whether or not such institutions call themselves governments, that is what they would effectively be.

It'll be pretty hard for us to progress in any sense when we're all living in Thunderdome post-ecological collapse.

[San Lumen]

I suspect it’s very unlikely that centralized government will collapse, as long as human civilisation continues to technologically and economically progress.

With the advance of technology, the ability of people to interfere in the lives of many other people far away has drastically improved. Two thousand years ago an American native farmer couldn’t possibly care less what his counterpart in Rome might be up to, but today the American office worker is directly affected by pollution from Chinese factories, ethnic disputes in the Middle East, and the European Union’s customs and tariff policies.

As technology advances, humanity is confronted with problems of larger and larger scale that will require the cooperation of larger and larger numbers of people to effectively solve. There is thus a need for social institutions of larger and larger scope to coordinate these numbers of people. Whether or not such institutions call themselves governments, that is what they would effectively be.

It'll be pretty hard for us to progress in any sense when we're all living in Thunderdome post-ecological collapse.

I doubt we reach that point.

[Outer Acharet]

It'll be pretty hard for us to progress in any sense when we're all living in Thunderdome post-ecological collapse.

I doubt we reach that point.

The worst climate change scenarios have the ecosystem surviving in some form and humanity along with it. We won't need biospheres in the majority of places. However, along the equator it will likely grow too hot for humans to biologically cool themselves, thus meaning no one could survive there naturally.

[The Sherpa Empire]

Cities are not worse for the environment than the same population spread over a larger area. They just have large populations.

[Upper Nan]

I doubt we reach that point.

The worst climate change scenarios have the ecosystem surviving in some form and humanity along with it. We won't need biospheres in the majority of places. However, along the equator it will likely grow too hot for humans to biologically cool themselves, thus meaning no one could survive there naturally.

Really? What's the data on that?

[San Kalungsod Saludong]

I live in a medium sized city with close proximity to rural areas. I like it, it's not as hectically crowded and traffick chocked as metropolises yet it has all the perks of a large city plus the food is just awesome because its fresh from the farm to table.

[San Lumen]

I live in a medium sized city with close proximity to rural areas. I like it, it's not as hectically crowded and traffick chocked as metropolises yet it has all the perks of a large city plus the food is just awesome because its fresh from the farm to table.

I might move to a medium sized city soon

[Wallenburg]

Buddy, pal, cities have existed for thousands upon thousands of years in spite of one plague after another. This plague is nothing special in the utility of centralizing human labor.

[San Kalungsod Saludong]

I live in a medium sized city with close proximity to rural areas. I like it, it's not as hectically crowded and traffick chocked as metropolises yet it has all the perks of a large city plus the food is just awesome because its fresh from the farm to table.

I might move to a medium sized city soon

Oooh what city in particular?

[San Lumen]

I might move to a medium sized city soon

Oooh what city in particular?

Minneapolis or Burlington

[Novus America]

Buddy, pal, cities have existed for thousands upon thousands of years in spite of one plague after another. This plague is nothing special in the utility of centralizing human labor.

Sure cities will not disappear entirely but many may go through a decades long decline as this has happened before.
And the internet means physically centralizing labor is less essential when it can be done virtually.

Technologies available now like the internet and modern transportation systems did not exist thousands of years.

[Plzen]

And the internet means centralizing labor is less essential.

If workplaces become dependent on the internet, wouldn't that be in itself an economic motive towards geographic centralisation?

Infrastructure is not cheap. Not to mention, service industries and delivery logistics...

[Novus America]

And the internet means centralizing labor is less essential.

If workplaces become dependent on the internet, wouldn't that be in itself an economic motive towards geographic centralisation?

Infrastructure is not cheap. Not to mention, service industries and delivery logistics...

The infrastructure is already in place. Each company does not build their own internet. They already have one to use.
All you need is a place with decent internet access.
If I want to move my company from the city to the suburb I do not need to build a new internet as the suburbs already have internet access, in many cases better than the cities.

Delivery logistics has been helped by transport improvements as well.

Also what is not cheap? Land. Actually the trend in the US has been for major companies, especially in manufacturing to know be to rural areas and the outer suburbs. For example McCormick (the spice company) used to be in Baltimore but now is in a little know place called Hunt Valley some 30 minutes outside the city. Cheaper land, better highway access, (for logistics) and many people would rather live out in the suburbs (or can simply drive) anyways.

I suspect already dying cities will keep dying, and cities losing population before this will lose a lot more, at least for a decade or so if not longer. Many cities in the US never recovered from the 70s and still have populations far below their peaks. Many have seen a population of drop of about 50%.

[San Lumen]

Buddy, pal, cities have existed for thousands upon thousands of years in spite of one plague after another. This plague is nothing special in the utility of centralizing human labor.

Sure cities will not disappear entirely but many may go through a decades long decline as this has happened before.
And the internet means physically centralizing labor is less essential when it can be done virtually.

Technologies available now like the internet and modern transportation systems did not exist thousands of years.

I don't think its going to be decades long decline. Some might but it certainly will not be all of them

[Ethel mermania]

Oooh what city in particular?

Minneapolis or Burlington

to go into the riots?


Burlington Vermont is nice, Burlington NJ not so much

[San Lumen]

Minneapolis or Burlington

to go into the riots?


Burlington Vermont is nice, Burlington NJ not so much

A friend of mine lives there and he said its quieted down greatly. I was referring to Burlington, Vermont

[Ethel mermania]

to go into the riots?


Burlington Vermont is nice, Burlington NJ not so much

A friend of mine lives there and he said its quieted down greatly. I was referring to Burlington, Vermont

Seems there are jobs there

https://www.indeed.com/m/jobs?l=Burlington%2C+VT

[San Lumen]

A friend of mine lives there and he said its quieted down greatly. I was referring to Burlington, Vermont

Seems there are jobs there

https://www.indeed.com/m/jobs?l=Burlington%2C+VT

good to know, id probably try and get a job with the university

[Ethel mermania]

20 years ago Tom wolfe wrote on the changing face of NYC. I think it still has value


https://observer.com/2001/12/tom-wolfe- ... of-change/

[San Lumen]

20 years ago Tom wolfe wrote on the changing face of NYC. I think it still has value


https://observer.com/2001/12/tom-wolfe- ... of-change/

At the rate things are going there isnt going to be much left and everything that made it the greatest city in the world will be gone. It will be a shell of what it was.