US won’t expel foreign students whose universities go online

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Since you may consider "the citizens of the People's Republic of China are spies blah blah blah". Many of these foreign students are a great asset to education and the money it injects into the economy is acceptable. Given she's from China, and her friend who is currently studying in the United States who is also from China should be removed from the United States?

Is money worth the risk that they could be spying for a hostile foreign power?

There's a difference between accepting travel from friendly countries and accepting travel from hostile countries.

[Organized States]

Since you may consider "the citizens of the People's Republic of China are spies blah blah blah". Many of these foreign students are a great asset to education and the money it injects into the economy is acceptable. Given she's from China, and her friend who is currently studying in the United States who is also from China should be removed from the United States?

Is money worth the risk that they could be spying for a hostile foreign power?

There's a difference between accepting travel from friendly countries and accepting travel from hostile countries.

There's also a difference between coloring an entire group of people as spies and debating responsible immigration and education policy.

First off,
China is not a hostile country using the formal definitions of the US Government. They are a near-peer competitor that acts upon a revisionist approach to the current global security order. Translation for those not familiar with the language of the USIC, DoD, and DoS: China is our competitor, but they don't seek to completely engage us in a full-scale conflict. They are not actively attempting to destroy the United States. They seek to upend the global security order and US influence (particularly in regards to hotspots such as Africa and East Asia) in order to gain an economic advantage. When we consider this reality, it does make sense that Chinese students should be barred from participating in certain research done by US universities at the behest of the US Government (specifically programs funded by NASA, DoD, USIC, etc). In fact, due to the fact that many of these students are not US citizens and cannot attain a security clearance, they are banned like many other foreign nationals from participating in these projects to begin with.

However, the influence that the Chinese Government holds over many Chinese students is wildly overstated. According to The Trans-Pacific Experiment by Matt Sheehan (excellent book, anyone interested in China needs to read it), most of the ties between Chinese Student Organizations on American Universities and the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs are on the periphery. Most of these ties are largely related to normal consular functions (help with visa renewals, cultural exchanges, etc).

Does China pose a significant espionage threat to the United States? Yes, but Mainland Chinese students are most certainly not the only people targeted in the United States by Chinese intelligence authorities and the US has a robust enough security infrastructure to deal with it.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Does China pose a significant espionage threat to the United States? Yes, but Mainland Chinese students are most certainly not the only people targeted in the United States by Chinese intelligence authorities and the US has a robust enough security infrastructure to deal with it.

The same security infrastructure that claimed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction? Why should they be trusted?

The precautionary principle should tell us, when in doubt, keep them out. It's unfortunate for those who had no intentions of spying for China, sure, but it's better to screw over a few people than to screw over 7 billion people.

[Organized States]

Does China pose a significant espionage threat to the United States? Yes, but Mainland Chinese students are most certainly not the only people targeted in the United States by Chinese intelligence authorities and the US has a robust enough security infrastructure to deal with it.

The same security infrastructure that claimed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction? Why should they be trusted?

The precautionary principle should tell us, when in doubt, keep them out. It's unfortunate for those who had no intentions of spying for China, sure, but it's better to screw over a few people than to screw over 7 billion people.

The Security infrastructure involved with counter-intelligence was not involved in the Iraq decision making process. The FBI has a very limited foreign intelligence mission (related to its counter-intelligence mission) and didn't produce any of the analysis regarding the War in Iraq. So please, keep bringing up a non-sequitur regarding Iraq to drive home an argument tinged with xenophobia regarding Chinese students.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Does China pose a significant espionage threat to the United States? Yes, but Mainland Chinese students are most certainly not the only people targeted in the United States by Chinese intelligence authorities and the US has a robust enough security infrastructure to deal with it.

The same security infrastructure that claimed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction? Why should they be trusted?

Well for one thing, major reports are cross checked with all the agencies now. And there's a standardized lexicon for how sure each one is of the intelligence being reported.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Does China pose a significant espionage threat to the United States? Yes, but Mainland Chinese students are most certainly not the only people targeted in the United States by Chinese intelligence authorities and the US has a robust enough security infrastructure to deal with it.

The same security infrastructure that claimed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction? Why should they be trusted?

The precautionary principle should tell us, when in doubt, keep them out. It's unfortunate for those who had no intentions of spying for China, sure, but it's better to screw over a few people than to screw over 7 billion people.

7 billion people. So is the national security of the US the security of all people on earth?

[Cetacea]

Whatever. It is still an idea that should go fuck itself. Discriminating against people because they come from a nation we don't like is a ridiculous proposal.

Despite the fact that citizens of that nation are actively involved in spying and intellectual property theft? I am perfectly fine with discriminating against people who come from enemies of the United States, same as I would be back in the Cold War with admitting "students" from the Soviet Union.

So you’d ban Israeli students too then?

From December 2019 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/ ... es-1491351
“The U.S. government concluded within the past two years that Israel was most likely behind the placement of cellphone surveillance devices that were found near the White House and other sensitive locations around Washington, according to three former senior U.S. officials with knowledge of the matter.”

[KingFerdinand1]

America And Americans FIRST.

[Nuroblav]

America And Americans FIRST.

"What? You mean to tell me that you WEREN'T spawned in MY strip of land? And now you want MY education? HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO US? I clearly have more value than you - my place of birth proves it!"

[KingFerdinand1]

America And Americans FIRST.

"What? You mean to tell me that you WEREN'T spawned in MY strip of land? And now you want MY education? HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO US? I clearly have more value than you - my place of birth proves it!"

I Dont Care About Your Communist Opinion.

[Shazbotdom]

Seeing as these students add an extra few billion dollars in business revenue every year, I would think that he wouldn't want to harm any businesses.

But what do I know....

[Estanglia]

I don't see what the problem here is. If their classes can be done online without them being present in person why should they be there in person as opposed to going home? It makes sense.

Well, time zone differences would probably make it easier to be in the US and take online classes than to be in another country with a significant time zone difference and do the online classes. There are also potentially personal circumstances that would make staying in the US better for them (e.g if their quality of life would be better remaining in the US compared to going to their home country).

If one can do their work in their home country as well as in the US, then sending them home sounds like a waste of time to me. At best, you're needlessly inconveniencing people.

[Kowani]

Update: The Policy has since been rescinded.

[Aeritai]

Update: The Policy has since been rescinded.

Wonderful news!

[Greed and Death]

Dont worry he is keeping the Xenophobes happy by announcing new sanctions on China.

[Kubra]

America And Americans FIRST.

tuition paid by foreign students is usually funnelled into the research and infrastructure of their respective institutions, man.
Foreigners having to go to school at home are gonna be funneling money to their respective National research institutions, and all of a sudden western education ain't the holy grail it used to be.

[Shazbotdom]

Update: The Policy has since been rescinded.

I guess he finally realized that these foreign students spend a lot of money here and he'd be losing out on a lot of taxable revenue.