US won’t expel foreign students whose universities go online

[Esternial]

I don't immediately see this as an intentionally "hostile" act on ICE's part, but I could be mistaken.

This seems more like they're showing themselves incapable of straying from their previously-established procedure. I work at a company where some teams refuse to help you if you haven't filled out a form to the T.

"It's procedure."

Whomever is directing ICE should take steps to amend this procedure so all services/teams downstream can adapt to the current situation.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I don't immediately see this as an intentionally "hostile" act on ICE's part, but I could be mistaken.

This seems more like they're showing themselves incapable of straying from their previously-established procedure. I work at a company where some teams refuse to help you if you haven't filled out a form to the T.

"It's procedure."

Whomever is directing ICE should take steps to amend this procedure so all services/teams downstream can adapt to the current situation.

Statement from Trump. Statement from Cuccinelli. It's policy, not some glitch at ICE.

[The Yellow Emperor]

Sounds good to me if they are citizens of the PRC...they should never haven been allowed in anyways and should not be allowed back under any circumstances. Fire anyone in the faculty who has PRC citizenship as well.

It'd be wise to exempt friendly and democratic nations, though. Indian students in particular are a huge asset at American universities.

So my girlfriend from China doesn't meet your criteria of being a Chinese citizen from the People's Republic (of China)? Since you may consider "the citizens of the People's Republic of China are spies blah blah blah". Many of these foreign students are a great asset to education and the money it injects into the economy is acceptable. Given she's from China, and her friend who is currently studying in the United States who is also from China should be removed from the United States? Yeah, buddy, not a great thought of process you've put out. Unfortunately, my friends from China in the United States are facing this situation and you support this move? How disappointing of you. I'll be waiting for your articles without any significant research to it.

On the side note, this is a waste of money where efforts are going downhill for this idea -- I ask if it involves other foreigners from Australia or other countries around the globe than specifically the citizens of respective countries where a certain country that the US has been provoking with baseless claims, and false beliefs. As I said, deeply disappointing with the way it is going for the United States, and fairly considered as I see it, unfair for those disadvantaged.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I take a different view.

This isn't based on race, this is to discourage universities from going online only.

I agree.

Perhaps Trump fears that students and staff will prefer it once they've tried it, and it will be cheaper and more productive, and more young people will be able to afford it, and the whole country will become more educated and productive, and export education services to the world, and ... not his idea of Great.

[Rojava Free State]

Sounds good to me if they are citizens of the PRC...they should never haven been allowed in anyways and should not be allowed back under any circumstances. Fire anyone in the faculty who has PRC citizenship as well.

It'd be wise to exempt friendly and democratic nations, though. Indian students in particular are a huge asset at American universities.

So my girlfriend from China doesn't meet your criteria of being a Chinese citizen from the People's Republic (of China)? Since you may consider "the citizens of the People's Republic of China are spies blah blah blah". Many of these foreign students are a great asset to education and the money it injects into the economy is acceptable. Given she's from China, and her friend who is currently studying in the United States who is also from China should be removed from the United States? Yeah, buddy, not a great thought of process you've put out. Unfortunately, my friends from China in the United States are facing this situation and you support this move? How disappointing of you. I'll be waiting for your articles without any significant research to it.

On the side note, this is a waste of money where efforts are going downhill for this idea -- I ask if it involves other foreigners from Australia or other countries around the globe than specifically the citizens of respective countries where a certain country that the US has been provoking with baseless claims, and false beliefs. As I said, deeply disappointing with the way it is going for the United States, and fairly considered as I see it, unfair for those disadvantaged.

These foreign students are doing alot more for this country than the trailer dwellers that complain about them. They're the doctors and nurses and lawyers and scientists of the future whereas your stereotypical racist redneck just ain't.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

So my girlfriend from China doesn't meet your criteria of being a Chinese citizen from the People's Republic (of China)? Since you may consider "the citizens of the People's Republic of China are spies blah blah blah". Many of these foreign students are a great asset to education and the money it injects into the economy is acceptable. Given she's from China, and her friend who is currently studying in the United States who is also from China should be removed from the United States? Yeah, buddy, not a great thought of process you've put out. Unfortunately, my friends from China in the United States are facing this situation and you support this move? How disappointing of you. I'll be waiting for your articles without any significant research to it.

On the side note, this is a waste of money where efforts are going downhill for this idea -- I ask if it involves other foreigners from Australia or other countries around the globe than specifically the citizens of respective countries where a certain country that the US has been provoking with baseless claims, and false beliefs. As I said, deeply disappointing with the way it is going for the United States, and fairly considered as I see it, unfair for those disadvantaged.

These foreign students are doing alot more for this country than the trailer dwellers that complain about them. They're the doctors and nurses and lawyers and scientists of the future whereas your stereotypical racist redneck just ain't.

Being classist isn't a valid refutation of xenophobia.

And anyway, a pretty good proportion of them are going to be professionals in China. A better line is that the US is exporting education, it's foreign trade but some of the students will stay and become professionals. That's trade (the money to educate them came into the country) but the US doesn't have to deliver anything in exchange: some students stay and become professionals.

Now we just have to persuade ICE of that. Offer citizenship on graduation, to selected students. US 2 China 0.

[Purpelia]

I don't see what the problem here is. If their classes can be done online without them being present in person why should they be there in person as opposed to going home? It makes sense.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I don't see what the problem here is. If their classes can be done online without them being present in person why should they be there in person as opposed to going home? It makes sense.

All the college has to do is offer a short session of in-person tutoring to get the student exempted.

Maybe some students will take the option of all-online from China. Good for them I guess, though the US is losing their spending money.

[Purpelia]

I don't see what the problem here is. If their classes can be done online without them being present in person why should they be there in person as opposed to going home? It makes sense.

All the college has to do is offer a short session of in-person tutoring to get the student exempted.

Maybe some students will take the option of all-online from China. Good for them I guess, though the US is losing their spending money.

Why would they though? I mean it's not like these people are getting permanently banished. If anything it's better for them because they get to both learn AND spend time at home with their family AND not be present in america as it implodes on it self in a plague race war combo.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

All the college has to do is offer a short session of in-person tutoring to get the student exempted.

Maybe some students will take the option of all-online from China. Good for them I guess, though the US is losing their spending money.

Why would they though?

The student might be a paying resident. The college might value its reputation with foreign students. The college might want the student to do well.

I mean it's not like these people are getting permanently banished. If anything it's better for them because they get to both learn AND spend time at home with their family AND not be present in america as it implodes on it self in a plague race war combo.

I'd leave the choice to them.
I wouldn't boot anyone out of the country regardless of the effect on the education they are paying for, and tell them "you should like it because ... fuck it, just get out".

Apart from anything else, this will force colleges to change their courses, or suffer damage to their own reputations.

Google tells me 33% of foreign students are Chinese, and 17% from India.

[Purpelia]

The student might be a paying resident.

So he will be saving money too. Sounds like a win to me.

The college might value its reputation with foreign students.

Which will not be effected at all as long as the quality of their classes is not effected. So this is irrelevant.

The college might want the student to do well.

Again irrelevant. That depends entirely on the quality of their classes and not where they take them from. Unless you claim that watching a video provides different educational qualities depending on the PC you watch it from.

I'd leave the choice to them.
I wouldn't boot anyone out of the country regardless of the effect on the education they are paying for, and tell them "you should like it because ... fuck it, just get out".

And for the third time this is NOT going to be effecting their education. The classes are going to be online either way. Watching them from a computer in one place vs one in another is NOT going to effect their quality.

Apart from anything else, this will force colleges to change their courses, or suffer damage to their own reputations.

No it will not. It is not forcing them to make their classes online.

Google tells me 33% of foreign students are Chinese, and 17% from India.

And this is relevant why exactly? Their origin is utterly irrelevant unless you want to say they don't have internet where they came from.

[Qabea]

Reuters Source

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Foreign students must leave the United States if their school’s classes this fall will be taught completely online or transfer to another school with in-person instruction, the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency announced on Monday.

It was not immediately clear how many student visa holders would be affected by the move, but foreign students are a key source of revenue for many U.S. universities as they often pay full tuition.

ICE said it would not allow holders of student visas to remain in the country if their school was fully online for the fall. Those students must transfer or leave the country, or they potentially face deportation proceedings, according to the announcement.

Colleges and universities have begun to announce plans for the fall 2020 semester amid the continued coronavirus pandemic. Harvard University on Monday announced it would conduct course instruction online for the 2020-2021 academic year.

The ICE guidance applies to holders of F-1 and M-1 visas, which are for academic and vocational students. The State Department issued 388,839 F visas and 9,518 M visas in fiscal 2019, according to the agency’s data.

The guidance does not affect students taking classes in person. It also does not affect F-1 students taking a partial online course-load, as long as their university certifies the student’s instruction is not completely digital. M-1 vocational program students and F-1 English language training program students will not be allowed to take any classes online.

President Donald Trump’s administration has imposed a number of new restrictions to legal and illegal immigration in recent months as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.

In June, the administration suspended work visas for a wide swath of nonimmigrant workers that it argued compete with U.S. citizens for jobs. The administration has also effectively suspended the admission of asylum seekers at the southern border with Mexico, citing coronavirus-related health risks as justification.

I don’t see any justification for this, besides xenophobia.
Who does this help? It’s not as if they’d broken the law.
Just another day in America.

I mean, if the university is online you have no reason to be here. You can participate in your classes from your home country.

[Neutraligon]

I don't see what the problem here is. If their classes can be done online without them being present in person why should they be there in person as opposed to going home? It makes sense.

Time zones?

[Kowani]

Reuters Source

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Foreign students must leave the United States if their school’s classes this fall will be taught completely online or transfer to another school with in-person instruction, the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency announced on Monday.

It was not immediately clear how many student visa holders would be affected by the move, but foreign students are a key source of revenue for many U.S. universities as they often pay full tuition.

ICE said it would not allow holders of student visas to remain in the country if their school was fully online for the fall. Those students must transfer or leave the country, or they potentially face deportation proceedings, according to the announcement.

Colleges and universities have begun to announce plans for the fall 2020 semester amid the continued coronavirus pandemic. Harvard University on Monday announced it would conduct course instruction online for the 2020-2021 academic year.

The ICE guidance applies to holders of F-1 and M-1 visas, which are for academic and vocational students. The State Department issued 388,839 F visas and 9,518 M visas in fiscal 2019, according to the agency’s data.

The guidance does not affect students taking classes in person. It also does not affect F-1 students taking a partial online course-load, as long as their university certifies the student’s instruction is not completely digital. M-1 vocational program students and F-1 English language training program students will not be allowed to take any classes online.

President Donald Trump’s administration has imposed a number of new restrictions to legal and illegal immigration in recent months as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.

In June, the administration suspended work visas for a wide swath of nonimmigrant workers that it argued compete with U.S. citizens for jobs. The administration has also effectively suspended the admission of asylum seekers at the southern border with Mexico, citing coronavirus-related health risks as justification.

I don’t see any justification for this, besides xenophobia.
Who does this help? It’s not as if they’d broken the law.
Just another day in America.

I mean, if the university is online you have no reason to be here. You can participate in your classes from your home country.

Laughs in time zones

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Another day another stupid idea from the Trump administration.

[Esternial]

I don't immediately see this as an intentionally "hostile" act on ICE's part, but I could be mistaken.

This seems more like they're showing themselves incapable of straying from their previously-established procedure. I work at a company where some teams refuse to help you if you haven't filled out a form to the T.

"It's procedure."

Whomever is directing ICE should take steps to amend this procedure so all services/teams downstream can adapt to the current situation.

Statement from Trump. Statement from Cuccinelli. It's policy, not some glitch at ICE.

Indeed, it's a pre-established policy they're enforcing.

They should take the steps to adapt it.

[Purpelia]

I don't see what the problem here is. If their classes can be done online without them being present in person why should they be there in person as opposed to going home? It makes sense.

Time zones?

I assume that they would have recordings that they can watch when ever they like. I doubt that any university would be so bad to not record the classes and do them only live with no recording.

Statement from Trump. Statement from Cuccinelli. It's policy, not some glitch at ICE.

Indeed, it's a pre-established policy they're enforcing.

They should take the steps to adapt it.[/quote]
Why? I don't see any reason why this decision is bad.

[Vistulange]

Clearly, nobody in this thread who supports this move has tried to give or take an undergraduate class or a graduate seminar through solely Zoom. Or, they simply don't give a shit about their students, that's also a possibility.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

Time zones?

I assume that they would have recordings that they can watch when ever they like. I doubt that any university would be so bad to not record the classes and do them only live with no recording.

Statement from Trump. Statement from Cuccinelli. It's policy, not some glitch at ICE.

Indeed, it's a pre-established policy they're enforcing.

They should take the steps to adapt it.
Why? I don't see any reason why this decision is bad.

It would be much more safer for health concerns and less expensive to just not deport them.

Also, recorded classes minimise teacher-student interaction to almost zero, asides from messages. At least if live classes were used, teachers would be able to address questions immediately.

[Gormwood]

I don't see what the problem here is. If their classes can be done online without them being present in person why should they be there in person as opposed to going home? It makes sense.

Time zones?

Government censorship too. Great Firewall of China?

[Kowani]

Time zones?

I assume that they would have recordings that they can watch when ever they like. I doubt that any university would be so bad to not record the classes and do them only live with no recording.

I can’t speak for all colleges, but mine is doing that, afaik.

[Valrifell]

I assume that they would have recordings that they can watch when ever they like. I doubt that any university would be so bad to not record the classes and do them only live with no recording.

I can’t speak for all colleges, but mine is doing that, afaik.

For me, exams at least are usually held live to ensure no cheating. So timezones still factor there.

[Asle Leopolka]

My alma mater increased on-campus classes to 50% but only made it so grad students have the option to enroll in on-campus sections (thanks loopholes!). They’re also providing free legal services to international students fight deportation orders.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

All the college has to do is offer a short session of in-person tutoring to get the student exempted.

Maybe some students will take the option of all-online from China. Good for them I guess, though the US is losing their spending money.

Why would they though? I mean it's not like these people are getting permanently banished. If anything it's better for them because they get to both learn AND spend time at home with their family AND not be present in america as it implodes on it self in a plague race war combo.

It's hard to go back to the US if you leave the US now.There are very few flights. But graduates have to go back to school in the fall to prepare their thesis.

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

Yes our policy of accepting vastly more immigrants and refugees than any other country on earth.

Seriously dont understand how people think the US is xenophobic yet somehow is the most diverse country on earth.

Regardless this dumb. Why kick people out who are bettering their lives?

Re. America being the most diverse country on Earth: I am very confident that Papua New Guinea is far more diverse than America, given that more than 800 languages are spoken there, and there is no ethnic majority in the same sense America has.

But yes, I agree with most people here that this measure is pretty dumb, given that this is basically one giant "fuck you" to foreign students wishing to study in the USA. Even if it wasn't, this seems to be some sort of blackmail to try and get the universities to reopen for in-person instruction.

The US has over 300 languages spoken by significant populations. Trying to add up all the dialects and such from the 1 million immigrants the US takes in each year, including thousands from papau new guinea, is impossible. it would probably end with almost all 6500. Keep in mind that pre modern societies often had a vast array of languages. Germany had over fifty for instance but today we simply consider it one group of people. As places modernize and grow languages will die out. You see diversity is not determined by language alone. It is just one indicator.