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Prior false rape accusations are not-admissable as evidence

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Should prior false accusations be made admissable?

Yes
18
64%
No
4
14%
Under some circumstances
6
21%
 
Total votes : 28

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Zottistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14894
Founded: Nov 26, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Zottistan » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:25 am

Vassenor wrote:
Atheris wrote:That's home-grown pure-bread whole-wheat fucking bullshit. Words can not describe how angry I am.



Oh that's fucking bullshit. All of this is FUCKING BULLSHIT.



This man seemingly did nothing wrong and they're letting a serial liar and someone who lied about rape and sexual abuse in the past get away with it?! That's horseshit. I expected better, Australia.


So you're mad that the defence has to use actual evidence to instill reasonable doubt rather than character assassination?

Evidence against a witness' credibility is pretty important in criminal trials, and is pretty fundamental to the right to cross-examination. Statutory rules governing similar-fact evidence, i.e., prior convictions and prior misconduct, vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and I'm not at all familiar with the specifics of NSW, but at common law it's generally inadmissible unless it can be shown to be relevant - and the standard of similarity required to establish relevance is often pretty severe - and even then, it only goes to the credibility of the witness' testimony, not towards the facts or law in issue. Evidence of prior false allegations is not evidence that the allegations in issue are false, but it it could be pretty important in gauging how reliable a witness' testimony is. In general, even if the relevance condition is met, a trial judge has discretion to prevent a jury from hearing similar fact evidence where she believes that the prejudicial effect of the evidence outweighs its probative value, which is almost certainly what would happen here in the absence of the legislation in issue - depending on the specific details, evidence of false allegations made as a child has a pretty limited probative value and a pretty major prejudicial effect. But excluding relevant similar-fact evidence against the credibility of a witness' testimony as a matter of course would be a huge mistake, because it can be pretty salient to a jury.

Introducing statutory bars on evidence regarding a witness' sexual history is great, a good way to curb arguments like "she's a bit of a hoe, she was probably out for it", which are just prejudicial, but barring the introduction of similar-evidence on on prior false allegations is pretty detrimental to the right to a fair trial and looks like an unanticipated product of poorly-drafted legislation, especially considering that that bar would only apply to sex abuse cases. Looks like Australian legal authorities agree, too.
Last edited by Zottistan on Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Tekania
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21671
Founded: May 26, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Tekania » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:33 pm

Galloism wrote:Extant case seems pretty clear. 10+ years ago and a minor is probably more prejudicial than probative. It’s akin to pointing out a man accused of murder was picked up for spray painting a fence 10 years ago when he was 14, but has had a clean nose ever since. That’s probably just attempting to introduce prejudice, not get to the facts.

As they say though, bad cases make bad case law.

Someone who was found to have made false claims last year as an adult with the same motive (IE, employment reasons, or revenge, etc) would be more probative than prejudicial, but would also seem to be blocked by this ruling. And that’s a problem, because the bar appears to be so blanket justice will be undermined by blocking the defense’s ability to probe the prosecution’s witness’s credibility.

That’s a problem.


Yeah, that's the issue I see as well. You have a witness that has a history that damages the credibility of their testimony, and yet you're statutorily prohibited from raising that.
Last edited by Tekania on Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Such heroic nonsense!

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Tekania
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21671
Founded: May 26, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Tekania » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:40 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Atheris wrote:That's home-grown pure-bread whole-wheat fucking bullshit. Words can not describe how angry I am.



Oh that's fucking bullshit. All of this is FUCKING BULLSHIT.



This man seemingly did nothing wrong and they're letting a serial liar and someone who lied about rape and sexual abuse in the past get away with it?! That's horseshit. I expected better, Australia.


So you're mad that the defence has to use actual evidence to instill reasonable doubt rather than character assassination?


When the prosecution's evidence hinges on verbal testimony, that testimony is evidence, and the reliability and credibility of that testimony speaks to the evidence.
Last edited by Tekania on Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Such heroic nonsense!

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 68113
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:45 pm

Tekania wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So you're mad that the defence has to use actual evidence to instill reasonable doubt rather than character assassination?


When the prosecution's evidence hinges on verbal testimony, that testimony is evidence, and the reliability and credibility of that testimony speaks to the evidence.


Which is where we get things like the defence insisting that the victim drinking or the victim dressing a certain way proves they secretly consented and thus everything they say is unreliable.
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User avatar
Tekania
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21671
Founded: May 26, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Tekania » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:49 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Tekania wrote:
When the prosecution's evidence hinges on verbal testimony, that testimony is evidence, and the reliability and credibility of that testimony speaks to the evidence.


Which is where we get things like the defence insisting that the victim drinking or the victim dressing a certain way proves they secretly consented and thus everything they say is unreliable.


Well, that is what happens when your have a case devoid of actual evidence and are just running on supposed witness testimony. Frankly most of those cases should never have even gone to trial to begin with.
Such heroic nonsense!

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Arkhane
Diplomat
 
Posts: 909
Founded: Jul 29, 2012
Libertarian Police State

Postby Arkhane » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:43 pm

If that's the case, a person's history of credit debt, bankruptcy or fraud shouldn't be held against them when applying for a loan or credit.

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