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Somerville, Mass to recognize polyamorous partnerships

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What do you think of this?

I'm not poly, but good for them
78
42%
I'm gonna tell my wife and her boyfriend, so we can start planning the move
14
7%
Meh/undecided
20
11%
This is no bueno
75
40%
 
Total votes : 187

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Grenartia
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Somerville, Mass to recognize polyamorous partnerships

Postby Grenartia » Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:43 pm

https://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/20200701/somerville-votes-to-recognize-polyamorous-domestic-partnerships-it-is-one-of-first-in-nation

The Somerville City Council unanimously approved an ordinance with language inclusive to polyamorous domestic partnerships.

On June 29, Somerville quietly became one of the first cities in the nation – if not the first – to recognize polyamorous domestic partnerships.

The historic move was a result of a few subtle language shifts. For example, instead of being defined as an “entity formed by two persons,” Somerville’s ordinance defines a domestic partnership as an “entity formed by people,” replaces “he and she” with “they,” replaces “both” with “all,” and contains other inclusive language.

On June 25, the City Council passed the ordinance recognizing domestic partnerships unanimously, and on June 29 Mayor Joe Curtatone signed it into municipal law. The city is in the process of changing the application to include space for more than two partners, but polyamorous partners will be able to file soon.


So, what say ye, NSG? Personally, as a polyamorous person, I think this is a great step forward, and hope more jurisdictions follow suit.

EDIT: Since people keep asking what the benefits are:

Last edited by Grenartia on Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:50 pm

This is going to end in a massive dumpster fire. Though the lawyers will be happy
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Postby Cekoviu » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:20 pm

eurgh, horrible idea on so many levels. thank god it's only one city.
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:22 pm

Cekoviu wrote:eurgh, horrible idea on so many levels. thank god it's only one city.

We surprisingly agree here.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:23 pm

*Joseph Joestar voice* NIIIIICE Huehuehuehue
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Postby Grenartia » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:25 pm

Thermodolia wrote:This is going to end in a massive dumpster fire. Though the lawyers will be happy


Cekoviu wrote:eurgh, horrible idea on so many levels. thank god it's only one city.


Elaborate.
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Postby Liriena » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:26 pm

Reactionaries and fascists are probably going to milk this and treat it like a catalyst for a second civil war or the collapse of all western civilization or something, as they usually do. But in and of itself... meh, it's fine. Polyamorous relationships aren't inherently bad or anything.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:27 pm

Liriena wrote:Reactionaries and fascists are probably going to milk this and treat it like a catalyst for a second civil war or the collapse of all western civilization or something, as they usually do. But in and of itself... meh, it's fine. Polyamorous relationships aren't inherently bad or anything.


Conservative Christians will. Fascists will see it as an opportunity to "preserve the white race," since more wives=more kids.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Postby Loben The 2nd » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:27 pm

i advocate for mass investigations on the entire city council to see who has the most child sized skeletons in their closet.
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:27 pm

poly civil unions with no legal meaning that you're allowed to call marriage = okay.

poly relationships causing legal bluescreens = no.

I don't support the normalization of poly relationships. I think society functions best without them, or with them on the fringes.

So the question is, does a mass recognizing them normalize them. I suppose i'm torn. If it came from a request from the couples, I feel like we're in Loving V Virginia territory where they're asking us to respect their love and we're villains if we deny that recognition they are requesting. If it came from the organizers, it feels like a stunt.

I guess I want poly relationships in the closet, to some extent. I don't want them to cause problems for the legal system. I'm fine with them being "Married" and that marriage being recognized as marriage in social terms and as *on the level of love* equal to other forms of relationship. I don't want them pretending this is normal or a functional thing to happen in society.

I'd guess i'd put it at the level of consensual incest frankly. I get that some poly people might think that's an awful comparison and find it offensive, but i'd ask them to consider that *I genuinely do not view this as lesser in terms of love and so on if someone genuinely feels that way.*. I'm not judging you. I am not saying your love is invalid or that you should not be respected in that regard. I simply do not think a society can survive if it becomes normalized.

With incest there's the genetic complications. With poly relationships there are the social fabric ones.
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Postby Necroghastia » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:28 pm

Cool beans.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:28 pm

Real talk, why should we even care? The worst that happens is horrible divorce proceedings involving 8 people and not two. Overall we will be fine. The sun will still rise in the east and gravity will continue to function.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Postby Liriena » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:30 pm

Loben The 2nd wrote:i advocate for mass investigations on the entire city council to see who has the most child sized skeletons in their closet.

???

Extremely normal conspiracy mindset
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:31 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:Real talk, why should we even care? The worst that happens is horrible divorce proceedings involving 8 people and not two. Overall we will be fine. The sun will still rise in the east and gravity will continue to function.


Because social norms are not as firm as we might like to pretend, and poly relationships can and have been normalized and mainstreamed in other societies, and it usually doesn't end well when you reach them being prevalent and the norm. That's separate to them being tolerated with this understanding in mind.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cekoviu » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:32 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:This is going to end in a massive dumpster fire. Though the lawyers will be happy


Cekoviu wrote:eurgh, horrible idea on so many levels. thank god it's only one city.


Elaborate.

this normalizes polyamorous relationships and opens the door to legally recognizing them - big social problem for reasons we have been over previously. this may also complicate legal procedures for those in polyamorous "relationships" and require a lot of bureaucratic reorganization, and now is not really the time for that.
Rojava Free State wrote:Real talk, why should we even care? The worst that happens is horrible divorce proceedings involving 8 people and not two. Overall we will be fine. The sun will still rise in the east and gravity will continue to function.

if your baseline for whether you should care about something is whether it will affect where the sun rises, i think you're going to have trouble functioning like a normal human
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Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:32 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:Real talk, why should we even care? The worst that happens is horrible divorce proceedings involving 8 people and not two. Overall we will be fine. The sun will still rise in the east and gravity will continue to function.


Because social norms are not as firm as we might like to pretend, and poly relationships can and have been normalized and mainstreamed in other societies, and it usually doesn't end well when you reach them being prevalent and the norm. That's separate to them being tolerated with this understanding in mind.


So we should tell people how msny people they can and cannot be miserable with?

Maximum freedom my friend. Let them have their ten thousand wives.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Postby Necroghastia » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:33 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:Real talk, why should we even care? The worst that happens is horrible divorce proceedings involving 8 people and not two. Overall we will be fine. The sun will still rise in the east and gravity will continue to function.


Because social norms are not as firm as we might like to pretend, and poly relationships can and have been normalized and mainstreamed in other societies, and it usually doesn't end well when you reach them being prevalent and the norm. That's separate to them being tolerated with this understanding in mind.

normalized and mainstream =/= prevalent
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Postby Cekoviu » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:34 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Because social norms are not as firm as we might like to pretend, and poly relationships can and have been normalized and mainstreamed in other societies, and it usually doesn't end well when you reach them being prevalent and the norm. That's separate to them being tolerated with this understanding in mind.


So we should tell people how msny people they can and cannot be miserable with?

Maximum freedom my friend. Let them have their ten thousand wives.

why is maximizing freedom a good thing?
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Postby Mestovakia » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:34 pm

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Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:34 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Because social norms are not as firm as we might like to pretend, and poly relationships can and have been normalized and mainstreamed in other societies, and it usually doesn't end well when you reach them being prevalent and the norm. That's separate to them being tolerated with this understanding in mind.


So we should tell people how msny people they can and cannot be miserable with?

Maximum freedom my friend. Let them have their ten thousand wives.


I outlined my perspective above, and it's one i'm conflicted on. Their love for eachother must be respected and recognized. I would treat it like consensual incest relationships.

We're not going to put you in prison. We're not going to pretend you don't love eachother.

But this is *not functional.*.

This is not a thing society can do at a high rate.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:35 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Grenartia wrote:


Elaborate.

this normalizes polyamorous relationships and opens the door to legally recognizing them - big social problem for reasons we have been over previously. this may also complicate legal procedures for those in polyamorous "relationships" and require a lot of bureaucratic reorganization, and now is not really the time for that.
Rojava Free State wrote:Real talk, why should we even care? The worst that happens is horrible divorce proceedings involving 8 people and not two. Overall we will be fine. The sun will still rise in the east and gravity will continue to function.

if your baseline for whether you should care about something is whether it will affect where the sun rises, i think you're going to have trouble functioning like a normal human


If you can't tell when I'm joking or using hyperbole, you're gonna have a hard time here.

Please explain to me how this one city allowing polygamy affects you and is super dangerous. I'm not saying I suport polygamous marriage (I don't support marriage at all), but I'm not too worked up about this.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Postby Liriena » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:36 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:Real talk, why should we even care? The worst that happens is horrible divorce proceedings involving 8 people and not two. Overall we will be fine. The sun will still rise in the east and gravity will continue to function.


Because social norms are not as firm as we might like to pretend, and poly relationships can and have been normalized and mainstreamed in other societies, and it usually doesn't end well when you reach them being prevalent and the norm. That's separate to them being tolerated with this understanding in mind.

Your concerns are historically valid (and I shudder to think what a poly divorce would look like), but I'm not entirely sure we'd be looking at the same negative outcomes, depending on the kind of poly relationships we're talking about. Traditional polyamory, as seen in many religious communities, has a ton of widespread and well-documented problems. But a lot of contemporary poly relationships don't come from those communities nor are structured like traditional polyamory. The dynamics are often very different and I'm not sure we can expect the consequences of their normalization to be the same.
Last edited by Liriena on Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:36 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Because social norms are not as firm as we might like to pretend, and poly relationships can and have been normalized and mainstreamed in other societies, and it usually doesn't end well when you reach them being prevalent and the norm. That's separate to them being tolerated with this understanding in mind.

normalized and mainstream =/= prevalent


If we can thread that needle, then that's what i'm aiming at. I want their love and rights respected and for them to not be treated like shit over this.

I do not want these relationships prevalent and will fight against that happening because of the consequences to society if that happens.

If forced to choose between the two, i'll choose a functional society over individual rights.
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Postby Tinfect » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:37 pm

About fucking time.
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Postby Liriena » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:37 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:normalized and mainstream =/= prevalent


If we can thread that needle, then that's what i'm aiming at. I want their love and rights respected and for them to not be treated like shit over this.

I do not want these relationships prevalent and will fight against that happening because of the consequences to society if that happens.

If forced to choose between the two, i'll choose a functional society over individual rights.

[nods in Confucius]
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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