A Holiday Trade?(Juneteenth in Exchange for Columbus Day)

[Outer Bratorke]

What needs to be kept in mind about public holidays is that their generally about something praiseworthy and good. Columbus was an important historical figure, but his actions to natives are something we must always condemn even from the standards of the time. For example, Hitler is an extremely important person in history, but Germany doesn't have Hitler Day.

I think there needs to be a day formally celebrating the end of slavery in the US, while also we need a day for remembering the contributions and history of native peoples.

To throw my own"this should be a holiday" into the ring,we Need the a Election Day so more people can vote in the election, and not have to choose between that and going to work.

[Greed and Death]

What needs to be kept in mind about public holidays is that their generally about something praiseworthy and good. Columbus was an important historical figure, but his actions to natives are something we must always condemn even from the standards of the time. For example, Hitler is an extremely important person in history, but Germany doesn't have Hitler Day.

I think there needs to be a day formally celebrating the end of slavery in the US, while also we need a day for remembering the contributions and history of native peoples.

To throw my own"this should be a holiday" into the ring,we Need the a Election Day so more people can vote in the election, and not have to choose between that and going to work.

Columbus was no where near Hitler in evil.
You will only find Stalin, Lenin, and Mao with the level of Evil that Hitler had.

I much prefer only those with upper income salaried positions voting.

[Outer Bratorke]

What needs to be kept in mind about public holidays is that their generally about something praiseworthy and good. Columbus was an important historical figure, but his actions to natives are something we must always condemn even from the standards of the time. For example, Hitler is an extremely important person in history, but Germany doesn't have Hitler Day.

I think there needs to be a day formally celebrating the end of slavery in the US, while also we need a day for remembering the contributions and history of native peoples.

To throw my own"this should be a holiday" into the ring,we Need the a Election Day so more people can vote in the election, and not have to choose between that and going to work.

Columbus was no where near Hitler in evil.
You will only find Stalin, Lenin, and Mao with the level of Evil that Hitler had.

I much prefer only those with upper income salaried positions voting.

I never said Columbus was worse than Hitler. I concede it was a poor comparison, but it still functions a statement of keeping in mind that just because someone is important doesn't mean they should be honored.
I agree with the second line.
That last one just makes you sound like an asshole.

[Major-Tom]

Juneteenth is an admirable idea for a federal holiday, but why not just rename Columbus Day? If we wanna celebrate the supposed discovery of the Americas (which again, Columbus wasn't the first to do so, but semantics), just call it something else. Some states have opted for Indigenous People's day, one could also make an argument to just rebrand it as an inoffensive "Patriot's Day" or something.

I just want an extra holiday without having to nerf another one. I'm motivated solely by the idea of more days off work.

[Necroghastia]

Wonder if there'll also be a condition like this were we to get anywhere with making election day a federal holiday...

[Greed and Death]

Columbus was no where near Hitler in evil.
You will only find Stalin, Lenin, and Mao with the level of Evil that Hitler had.

I much prefer only those with upper income salaried positions voting.

I never said Columbus was worse than Hitler. I concede it was a poor comparison, but it still functions a statement of keeping in mind that just because someone is important doesn't mean they should be honored.
I agree with the second line.
That last one just makes you sound like an asshole.

[Greed and Death]

Columbus was no where near Hitler in evil.
You will only find Stalin, Lenin, and Mao with the level of Evil that Hitler had.

I much prefer only those with upper income salaried positions voting.

I never said Columbus was worse than Hitler. I concede it was a poor comparison, but it still functions a statement of keeping in mind that just because someone is important doesn't mean they should be honored.
I agree with the second line.
That last one just makes you sound like an asshole.

And comparing everyone you think shouldn't have a holiday to Hitler makes you look like this guy

[Free Ravensburg]

In general, I would remove Columbus Day

[Greed and Death]

Juneteenth is an admirable idea for a federal holiday, but why not just rename Columbus Day? If we wanna celebrate the supposed discovery of the Americas (which again, Columbus wasn't the first to do so, but semantics), just call it something else. Some states have opted for Indigenous People's day, one could also make an argument to just rebrand it as an inoffensive "Patriot's Day" or something.

I just want an extra holiday without having to nerf another one. I'm motivated solely by the idea of more days off work.

We say Columbus discovered America because he made it known to the wider world.

The Vikings beforehand arrived camped out for a winter, chopped down some trees and left and they did so without telling anyone. We only know about their exploits from Icelandic oral histories which also treated the exploits of Thor as fact. Other vikings didn't even know about their cousins finding a new land. We had doubts about the validity of these histories until vikings winter camps were found in the 1960's.

There is no need to rename Columbus day.

[Bienenhalde]

I think this is a very reasonable proposal. I understand Italian-Americans might be kind of disappointed, but think Italian-Americans should have a better hero or role-model than Columbus anyway. While I support some sort of official commemoration in honor of Italian-American history, I don't believe it merits a full-fledged holiday with the closure of workplaces and whatnot. Not every ethnic group in the US gets their own federal holiday anyway. I mean, slavery and its evential abolition were not just important for African-Americans; they had a decisive influence on American society as a whole.

[Outer Bratorke]

And comparing everyone you think shouldn't have a holiday to Hitler makes you look like this guy[/img]

I already agreed my comparison was flawed. It is clear you are not willing to understand that.

[Gig em Aggies]

I think this is a very reasonable proposal. I understand Italian-Americans might be kind of disappointed, but think Italian-Americans should have a better hero or role-model than Columbus anyway. While I support some sort of official commemoration in honor of Italian-American history, I don't believe it merits a full-fledged holiday with the closure of workplaces and whatnot. Not every ethnic group in the US gets their own federal holiday anyway. I mean, slavery and its evential abolition were not just important for African-Americans; they had a decisive influence on American society as a whole.

well Italian Americans had a big impact as well so why say there less important people tend to forget that Italians were treated like shit as well when they first came here so creating a new holiday just because "we had it hard" don't jive. like I said in previous posts why replace one people groups holiday for another? and as stated Juneteenth it holds more significance in Texas then the entire country so making that a national holiday wont happen most likely no new holiday will be created just to appease a small group of protestors.

[Greater Miami Shores]

[url]usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/07/02/juneteenth-would-replace-columbus-day-federal-holiday-bill-says/5362566002/[/url]

A couple of Republican Senators(James Lankford of Oklahoma and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin) have said they're in favour of allowing Juneteenth to be a federal holiday...so long as another holiday is cut from the schedule to keep costs down. Their holiday to remove? Columbus Day.

In response to bipartisan efforts to make Juneteenth a federal holiday, Republican Sens. Ron Johnson and James Lankford have proposed eliminating a different federal holiday "in exchange."

The choice?

Columbus Day.

“We support celebrating emancipation with a federal holiday but believe we should eliminate a current holiday in exchange. We chose Columbus Day as a holiday that is lightly celebrated, and least disruptive to Americans’ schedules,” Johnson, of Wisconsin, said in a statement Wednesday.

Johnson and Lankford of Oklahoma will be seeking to amend a bill making Juneteenth a federal holiday.

Johnson said adding to the number of federal holidays would give federal workers an additional day of paid leave and increase the government's costs. He called his amendment a "counter-proposal that does not put us further in debt.”

Juneteenth, celebrated on June 19, commemorates the end of slavery. The Emancipation Proclamation had outlawed slavery more than two years earlier, but enforcement largely was a function of where Union troops had advanced. On June 19, 1865, federal orders finally reached — and were proclaimed — in Texas.

Efforts to make it a federal holiday have intensified amid the protests against racial inequality in the aftermath of the killing of George Floyd by police in Minneapolis.

Columbus Day honors Christopher Columbus and has been recognized as a federal holiday since 1934. Originally, it fell on Oct. 12, but President Lyndon Johnson in 1968 moved it to the second Monday in October.

For many Italian-American groups and communities, it’s a day set aside to celebrate their heritage. But it has been a source of growing controversy in recent years because of the killing and enslavement of indigenous people in the Americas by European explorers and settlers.

Last year, Wisconsin Gov. Tony Evers by executive order designated Indigenous Peoples Day to run on the same day as the federal holiday. Earlier this year, Chicago Public Schools stopped recognizing Columbus Day entirely, instead giving students off the same day and calling it Indigenous Peoples Day, drawing objections from Italian American groups.

A spokesman for Johnson said the senator was not denigrating Christopher Columbus or making a value judgment about his legacy, only seeking to avoid increasing the number of federal holidays for cost reasons.

Their reasoning is that it's only lightly celebrated, mostly within the Italian community, and seen by many Americans as problematic and too inconvenient, so why not get rid of it?

So, NSG, what's your take on it?

Personally, i'd rather we rename Columbus Day Indigenous Peoples Day and have both of them as federal holidays, but I'll take this one for now. We can bring back the October holiday in a few years time.

I don't have a problem with making Juneteenth a national holiday, to honor the freeing of Black African American slaves, we have a Martin Luther King Day. But we should not replace or end Columbus day to be politically correct to a segment of society, we should have both. If you decide to create a good poll, I think this should be one of the options, in your own words and style.

[Australian rePublic]

Columbus wasn't genocidal or a slaver.

The record of his own crew says otherwise. Forcing the Taino to work in gold mines and killing them because there's no gold in the region and attacking villages, killing women and children while laughing about it is genocide,

Didn't all that shit happen decades after Columbus?

even if we remove all disease from the equation.

See this is where you lose all credibility. Genocide has to be intentional. Columbus lived in the 15th Century. What exactly did you want him to do about spreading Old World diseases? He had no idea that he was doing it, and couldn't stop doing it, even if he wanted to. Aside from the fact that he never intended to discover a new continent and was instead looking for a new trade route to India (a place which was already exposed to Old World diseases), aside from that, how was he supposed to know that discovering a new continent would spread disease to the natives? Seriously, how? We're talking where blood letting was considered the best form of medicine. Even if he did know about contagious diseases, there would have been no method of him knowing about Old Worler vs New Worler immunity. Unless you're refering to small pox blankets, and in that case, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they happen centuries after Columbus died? Say whatever you like about Columbus, but it would have been impossible for him to intentionally spread disease.

[Heloin]

The record of his own crew says otherwise. Forcing the Taino to work in gold mines and killing them because there's no gold in the region and attacking villages, killing women and children while laughing about it is genocide,

Didn't all that shit happen decades after Columbus?

He was recalled to Spain partially because he was so awful and partially because no one actually liked the guy. What he and his crew did was widely known in Spain and people thought it was awful even then. Columbus's reputation took a while to recover after being recalled to Spain, the honours he got after that point where more of promoting someone out of the way.

even if we remove all disease from the equation.

See this is where you lose all credibility. Genocide has to be intentional. Columbus lived in the 15th Century. What exactly did you want him to do about spreading Old World diseases? He had no idea that he was doing it, and couldn't stop doing it, even if he wanted to. Aside from the fact that he never intended to discover a new continent and was instead looking for a new trade route to India (a place which was already exposed to Old World diseases), aside from that, how was he supposed to know that discovering a new continent would spread disease to the natives? Seriously, how? We're talking where blood letting was considered the best form of medicine. Even if he did know about contagious diseases, there would have been no method of him knowing about Old Worler vs New Worler immunity. Unless you're refering to small pox blankets, and in that case, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they happen centuries after Columbus died? Say whatever you like about Columbus, but it would have been impossible for him to intentionally spread disease.

The Genocide of Indigenous peoples of the Americas was intentional even ignoring Old World diseases. Saying otherwise raises a clear point that someone doesn't actually know what early explorers and even people up into the modern day have down to the natives. Hispaniola under Columbus and later governors was akin to Leopold's rule of the Congo.


It's honestly astonishing that his reputation has recovered so well and that people have such a problem with reexamining an important but awful historical figure. The discover of America by the Old World was always going to be a shit show, history wouldn't change much if John Cabot, for whatever reason, happened to discover Newfoundland before Columbus did his thing. But then again Cabot didn't work an island's population to death after a devastating plague had already killed many of them in order to find gold.

[Rojava Free State]

What if we compromise and have Columbus memorial day? We will recognize Columbus for both his strengths and flaws as well as remembering his victims.

[Atheris]

What if we compromise and have Columbus memorial day? We will recognize Columbus for both his strengths and flaws as well as remembering his victims.

I'd be down for this.

[Neuer Deutsches Reich]

The USA is going nuts, happy I do not live there

[Heloin]

What if we compromise and have Columbus memorial day? We will recognize Columbus for both his strengths and flaws as well as remembering his victims.

Because Lee–Jackson–King Day made so much sense, let's throw another log onto that fire.

[Rojava Free State]

What if we compromise and have Columbus memorial day? We will recognize Columbus for both his strengths and flaws as well as remembering his victims.

Because Lee–Jackson–King Day made so much sense, let's throw another log onto that fire.

Christopher Columbus was very important and if it wasn't for him, there would not be a united States right now. He led to the circumstances that led me to be born, so while he did some fucked up things, I'm kinda grateful to him for making it possible for myself to come into existence.

[Luziyca]

I'd personally move Thanksgiving to where Columbus Day is now, remove Columbus from the equation, and implement Juneteenth as a national holiday.

[Heloin]

Because Lee–Jackson–King Day made so much sense, let's throw another log onto that fire.

Christopher Columbus was very important and if it wasn't for him, there would not be a united States right now. He led to the circumstances that led me to be born, so while he did some fucked up things, I'm kinda grateful to him for making it possible for myself to come into existence.

That's about as sensible as saying Irish Americans should be grateful for the Great Famine.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Juneteenth is an admirable idea for a federal holiday, but why not just rename Columbus Day? If we wanna celebrate the supposed discovery of the Americas (which again, Columbus wasn't the first to do so, but semantics), just call it something else. Some states have opted for Indigenous People's day, one could also make an argument to just rebrand it as an inoffensive "Patriot's Day" or something.

I just want an extra holiday without having to nerf another one. I'm motivated solely by the idea of more days off work.

We say Columbus discovered America because he made it known to the wider world.

The Vikings beforehand arrived camped out for a winter, chopped down some trees and left and they did so without telling anyone. We only know about their exploits from Icelandic oral histories which also treated the exploits of Thor as fact. Other vikings didn't even know about their cousins finding a new land. We had doubts about the validity of these histories until vikings winter camps were found in the 1960's.

There is no need to rename Columbus day.

Actually, parts of your post makes the case why Columbus day should be renamed Leif Erickson day, since he was the first to discover America before Columbus, despite that America wasn't settled by the Euros because of his discovery. Their are stories that they intermarried with at least a few of the natives, which might or might not have happened. But I agree with Deacarsia Columbus day should be preserved.

[Valrifell]

Christopher Columbus was very important and if it wasn't for him, there would not be a united States right now. He led to the circumstances that led me to be born, so while he did some fucked up things, I'm kinda grateful to him for making it possible for myself to come into existence.

That's about as sensible as saying Irish Americans should be grateful for the Great Famine.

"Thank God for Hitler, because if it wasn't for WW2 my grandmother would have never been born in the baby boom"

[Soiled fruit roll ups]

or give people x amount of public holidays a year and let them use them for what they want.

Want you religions holy days as a public holiday done. Want your favourite singers birthday as a public holiday, also done.

Just giving people the choice solves every issue here.