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by Broader Confederate States » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:51 pm
by Plzen » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:20 pm
Broader Confederate States wrote:However, Sweden in the 1990s showed that when actually confronted with it on a national scale, most people don't actually enjoy living under it.
by Nilrahrarfan » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:27 pm
by Broader Confederate States » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:54 pm
Plzen wrote:Broader Confederate States wrote:However, Sweden in the 1990s showed that when actually confronted with it on a national scale, most people don't actually enjoy living under it.
First, at no point did Sweden run a socialist economy, and second, if you’re referring to Swedish social democracy as socialism then Sweden was doing very well until the right-wing started winning elections and liberalising the economy in 1976.
by Plzen » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:34 am
Broader Confederate States wrote:Why would they burn their own meal ticket if it was working, giving them a high quality of life and happiness? It was their own decision, nobody forced them into it.
by The Bio-Regional Cooperative of States » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:45 am
by Broader Confederate States » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:46 am
Plzen wrote:Broader Confederate States wrote:Why would they burn their own meal ticket if it was working, giving them a high quality of life and happiness? It was their own decision, nobody forced them into it.
For the 1976 election in particular I’d argue the oil shock. The 1970s were an economically difficult time for pretty much every western country, whether left-leaning or right-leaning, and Sweden was no exception.
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:05 am
Broader Confederate States wrote:Plzen wrote:For the 1976 election in particular I’d argue the oil shock. The 1970s were an economically difficult time for pretty much every western country, whether left-leaning or right-leaning, and Sweden was no exception.
Seems like things are gearing up to be even worse for the left then by around the middle of this century. A source that's been proven to be reliable in his prediction so far (as in, off only by a year or two) has suggested our supply of conventional oil should run just about dry by 2060; other predictions say oil will become insanely expensive by 2035 or 2040. Nobody's taking it the least bit seriously, at least not anyone who can actually change things. That oil thing I put importance in my nation on, that's not a sci fi scenario, that's all based on real experts' real predictions.
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:14 am
Nilrahrarfan wrote:Simply put, Socialism works better in places richer in natural resources.
It would work in somewhere like Australia, but not somewhere like Japan.
by Plzen » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:17 am
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Nationalize BHP, Rio Tinto and Telstra for starters.
by Aureumterra » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:02 am
Nilrahrarfan wrote:Simply put, Socialism works better in places richer in natural resources.
It would work in somewhere like Australia, but not somewhere like Japan.
by Broader Confederate States » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:27 am
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Broader Confederate States wrote:Seems like things are gearing up to be even worse for the left then by around the middle of this century. A source that's been proven to be reliable in his prediction so far (as in, off only by a year or two) has suggested our supply of conventional oil should run just about dry by 2060; other predictions say oil will become insanely expensive by 2035 or 2040. Nobody's taking it the least bit seriously, at least not anyone who can actually change things. That oil thing I put importance in my nation on, that's not a sci fi scenario, that's all based on real experts' real predictions.
So much citation of sources ... so little source.
by Federation of American States » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:22 pm
by Mirjt » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:57 pm
Federation of American States wrote:The first thing socalists should do is Reject Antifa. And remove them from your movement.
Associations with Antifa and the SJWs community makes you look like toddlers throwing a tantrum demanding things be given to you for free. ( Medicare and college) to the non socialist American.
Second thing you should do is stop comparing America to Europe or Americans to Europeans
Most self respecting Americans hate that.
by Federation of American States » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:57 pm
by New Rogernomics » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:50 pm
by Broader Confederate States » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:04 pm
New Rogernomics wrote:As far as the US is concerned, you can't have socialism by believing in the Democratic Party, you need a third party system that splits the vote both for Republicans and Democrats. If the US had a more left party i.e. a green party or progressive party, and another right party i.e. a libertarian party or a more social conservative party, then you could probably see a resurgence in the US left. That said, both the GOP and Dems have manipulated the system to stop meaningful reform, and use the election system to prevent third parties ever winning a seat or getting a minute on TV to state their policies.
Mirjt wrote:Federation of American States wrote:The first thing socalists should do is Reject Antifa. And remove them from your movement.
Associations with Antifa and the SJWs community makes you look like toddlers throwing a tantrum demanding things be given to you for free. ( Medicare and college) to the non socialist American.
Second thing you should do is stop comparing America to Europe or Americans to Europeans
Most self respecting Americans hate that.
I am sorry, but I must disagree with everything you just said.
1. Antifa is not an organization, its an ideological position. It means anti-fascism (fascism in general is hard to define and this is not the thread for it). Saying remove antifa from our movements has the same ridiculousness as saying remove specific ideology (anarchism, communism, green politics, etc...) from our movements. However, given that socialism stands for everything fascism is against, and vice versa, socialists are naturally anti-fascist. Explicit opposition to fascism (also known as antifa) has been a part of socialist movements since fascism first emerged in the 1930s.
by Mirjt » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:13 pm
Broader Confederate States wrote:New Rogernomics wrote:As far as the US is concerned, you can't have socialism by believing in the Democratic Party, you need a third party system that splits the vote both for Republicans and Democrats. If the US had a more left party i.e. a green party or progressive party, and another right party i.e. a libertarian party or a more social conservative party, then you could probably see a resurgence in the US left. That said, both the GOP and Dems have manipulated the system to stop meaningful reform, and use the election system to prevent third parties ever winning a seat or getting a minute on TV to state their policies.
We have both of those, a Green party and a Libertarian party, both being the runners-up in terms of popularity. The last time a state voted for a third party was in 1968. In total, the Green and Libertarian parties only drum up about 4.4% of people to vote for them instead of the two parties that actually have any chance of winning.Mirjt wrote:I am sorry, but I must disagree with everything you just said.
1. Antifa is not an organization, its an ideological position. It means anti-fascism (fascism in general is hard to define and this is not the thread for it). Saying remove antifa from our movements has the same ridiculousness as saying remove specific ideology (anarchism, communism, green politics, etc...) from our movements. However, given that socialism stands for everything fascism is against, and vice versa, socialists are naturally anti-fascist. Explicit opposition to fascism (also known as antifa) has been a part of socialist movements since fascism first emerged in the 1930s.
First off, antifa is (or at least was) an actual organization, which is what I'm assuming you were referring to.
First and a halfly, unless I missed the memo I'm pretty sure like half the things in Adi-boy's 25-point plan were things socialists would totally agree with like punishing the military-industrial complex, offering social services to children and the elderly, and regulating the loan market... or totally nationalizing it, as it suggested they wanted to do to any major industry. Even if it's not true fascism or whatever, it's still branched off of it.
Secondly, even if it wasn't, someone has to be the one to start lobbing molotov cocktails at cars with people inside or mobbing some random person while they're trying to drive past, right? And more often than not, they put "antifa" on their twitter bio. Even if that's 100% not true, that's the public view of what antifa is.
by Broader Confederate States » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:26 pm
Mirjt wrote:Broader Confederate States wrote:We have both of those, a Green party and a Libertarian party, both being the runners-up in terms of popularity. The last time a state voted for a third party was in 1968. In total, the Green and Libertarian parties only drum up about 4.4% of people to vote for them instead of the two parties that actually have any chance of winning.
First off, antifa is (or at least was) an actual organization, which is what I'm assuming you were referring to.
First and a halfly, unless I missed the memo I'm pretty sure like half the things in Adi-boy's 25-point plan were things socialists would totally agree with like punishing the military-industrial complex, offering social services to children and the elderly, and regulating the loan market... or totally nationalizing it, as it suggested they wanted to do to any major industry. Even if it's not true fascism or whatever, it's still branched off of it.
Secondly, even if it wasn't, someone has to be the one to start lobbing molotov cocktails at cars with people inside or mobbing some random person while they're trying to drive past, right? And more often than not, they put "antifa" on their twitter bio. Even if that's 100% not true, that's the public view of what antifa is.
1. The Wikipedia page you linked to literally has the following text:
"In the postwar era, the historical Antifaschistische Aktion inspired a variety of different movements, groups and individuals in Germany as well as other countries which widely adopted variants of its aesthetics and some of its tactics. Known as the wider Antifa movement, the modern Antifa groups have no direct organisational connection to the historical Antifaschistische Aktion."...
"In the United States, Antifa of the early 21st-century has drawn its aesthetics and some of its tactics from the original German organization."
1.5. It is historical revisionism to try to imply that socialists are not opposed to fascists.
2. The violence is being started by the police. Impeding traffic is not violence. The public view is being manipulated by the President, the media, and the discourse - and by that logic it does not matter what aesthetics we use because it will always be redemonized by the capitalists.
by Alcala-Cordel » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:33 pm
by Alcala-Cordel » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:35 pm
Federation of American States wrote:The first thing socalists should do is Reject Antifa. And remove them from your movement.
Associations with Antifa and the SJWs community makes you look like toddlers throwing a tantrum demanding things be given to you for free. ( Medicare and college) to the non socialist American.
Second thing you should do is stop comparing America to Europe or Americans to Europeans
Most self respecting Americans hate that.
by Aureumterra » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:55 pm
by Alcala-Cordel » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:24 am
Aureumterra wrote:Maybe stop saying the Nordic countries are socialist?
Oh and not associating with the clowns who came up with the whole CHAZ/CHOP thing
by Hellslayer » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:31 am
by South Odreria 2 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:39 am
Valrifell wrote:
Disregard whatever this poster says
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