How to save socialism in the US (and other western countries

[Alcala-Cordel]

Socialism doesn’t work because when the government is paying you then there is no incentive to work. Also all the companies will move because they are being taxed heavily and nobody is working. I don’t understand how people don’t get this

"I'm hungry. Let's get mammoth."

"NOT IF I DON'T GET PAID FIRST LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!"

There are other incentives besides money...

Exactly, we've been hunter-gatherers for far longer than the existence of civilization, and we didn't have hierarchies then. People did what they could and contributed what they could to whoever needed it. That right there was anarcho-primitivist communism, and it worked.

[The Emerald Legion]

"I'm hungry. Let's get mammoth."

"NOT IF I DON'T GET PAID FIRST LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!"

There are other incentives besides money...

Exactly, we've been hunter-gatherers for far longer than the existence of civilization, and we didn't have hierarchies then. People did what they could and contributed what they could to whoever needed it. That right there was anarcho-primitivist communism, and it worked.

... No they didn't. This idea is dumb. Tribes have always had leaders, and they would also frequently kill other tribes and take their stuff.

Stop projecting your communist ideals over history.

[Stellar Colonies]

Talking about a 'revolution' tends to repel people, especially since revolutions with even the most utopian ideals tend to devolve into authoritarianism or at the very least settle down to the previous status quo, but with different people in charge, once they succeed.

Exactly, that's why the United States is still a crown colony.

"...very least settle down to the previous status quo, but with different people in charge..."

[Diopolis]

"I'm hungry. Let's get mammoth."

"NOT IF I DON'T GET PAID FIRST LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!"

There are other incentives besides money...

Exactly, we've been hunter-gatherers for far longer than the existence of civilization, and we didn't have hierarchies then. People did what they could and contributed what they could to whoever needed it. That right there was anarcho-primitivist communism, and it worked.

Literally none of this is true.
Hunter gatherer groups have hierarchies- albeit less formally than civilized people. Hunter gatherers have a limited amount of inequality, but this is because there's no wealth, not because they don't have a hierarchy.

[Cisairse]

Exactly, that's why the United States is still a crown colony.

"...very least settle down to the previous status quo, but with different people in charge..."

Exactly, that's why the people of the United States still lack self-determination.

[Atheris]

"...very least settle down to the previous status quo, but with different people in charge..."

Exactly, that's why the people of the United States still lack self-determination.

Probably because a good number of us aren't old enough to vote.

[Kowani]

Exactly, that's why the people of the United States still lack self-determination.

Probably because a good number of us aren't old enough to vote.

Well, no, it’s because the government’s been hijacked by the wealthy and interest groups.

[West Leas Oros 2]

"I'm hungry. Let's get mammoth."

"NOT IF I DON'T GET PAID FIRST LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!"

There are other incentives besides money...

Exactly, we've been hunter-gatherers for far longer than the existence of civilization, and we didn't have hierarchies then. People did what they could and contributed what they could to whoever needed it. That right there was anarcho-primitivist communism, and it worked.

Maybe it worked then, but nowadays, primitivism is more of a meme. Even Marx didn’t advocate a return to what he called “primitive communism”.

[Mirjt]

While I think we can learn a lot from "primitive" human societies, and we need to understand them to understand our modern day (at least in part), we should avoid advocating for a return to "primitive" societies, like the primitivists do.

Humans need modern agricultural techniques to produce enough food for everyone (we currently produce enough food for 10 billion humans a year, though climate change may start to change that), humans need modern irrigation and water system to ensure everyone has potable water (especially with water scarcity increasing due to climate change), humans need modern sanitation infrastructure to prevent the spread of disease, humans need modern medical technology so many of us won't die to illness or injury and to accommodate disabilities, much of world is virtually uninhabitable for decent sized populations without the use of air conditioning, heating, lighting, and so on (and this is likely to get worse due to climate change), we also need our modern technology to combat the effects of climate change.

Not only does primitivism unfairly demonize all technology and modern lifestyles, but it also misunderstands how our ancestors actually lived in the first place, not to mention it would require massive genocide of the disabled, of the sick, of the food and water insecure, of those vulnerable to climate disasters, etc... It also discredits other leftist ideology by making us look ignorant and out of touch with reality, not to mention it is illogical and anti-liberatory on its face. I should mention however that primitivists are right to critique many aspects of our modern lifestyles, of our relationship to technology, of the need for nature in our lives, and of the abuse of technology by the state and capitalists.

[Farnhamia]

Exactly, we've been hunter-gatherers for far longer than the existence of civilization, and we didn't have hierarchies then. People did what they could and contributed what they could to whoever needed it. That right there was anarcho-primitivist communism, and it worked.

Maybe it worked then, but nowadays, primitivism is more of a meme. Even Marx didn’t advocate a return to what he called “primitive communism”.

Of course not. "There are not pastries in primitive communism, Fraulein Farnham," he told me. "Who would want to live in such a world?"

[West Leas Oros 2]

Maybe it worked then, but nowadays, primitivism is more of a meme. Even Marx didn’t advocate a return to what he called “primitive communism”.

Of course not. "There are not pastries in primitive communism, Fraulein Farnham," he told me. "Who would want to live in such a world?"

I’m just saying we shouldn’t exactly be looking so fondly at anarcho-primitivism, given its unfeasibility in modern society. It bothers me a little; the irrational, knee-jerk reaction towards “hierarchy” as an evil boogeyman.

[Farnhamia]

Of course not. "There are not pastries in primitive communism, Fraulein Farnham," he told me. "Who would want to live in such a world?"

I’m just saying we shouldn’t exactly be looking so fondly at anarcho-primitivism, given its unfeasibility in modern society. It bothers me a little; the irrational, knee-jerk reaction towards “hierarchy” as an evil boogeyman.

I do not disagree.

[Atheris]

Of course not. "There are not pastries in primitive communism, Fraulein Farnham," he told me. "Who would want to live in such a world?"

I’m just saying we shouldn’t exactly be looking so fondly at anarcho-primitivism, given its unfeasibility in modern society. It bothers me a little; the irrational, knee-jerk reaction towards “hierarchy” as an evil boogeyman.

Yes.

[West Leas Oros 2]

I’m just saying we shouldn’t exactly be looking so fondly at anarcho-primitivism, given its unfeasibility in modern society. It bothers me a little; the irrational, knee-jerk reaction towards “hierarchy” as an evil boogeyman.

I do not disagree.

I know. I’m just restating my point. Force of habit.

[Farnhamia]

I do not disagree.

I know. I’m just restating my point. Force of habit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-fkSYDtUY

[Atheris]

I know. I’m just restating my point. Force of habit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-fkSYDtUY

If this is a rickroll I'm going to be severely disappointed.

Edit: Bomb defused. We're clear - repeat, bomb defused. You can click on it.

[Farnhamia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-fkSYDtUY

If this is a rickroll I'm going to be severely disappointed.

Totally not.

[Rightonrighton]

Only they haven't lived under communism or socialism unless they're from the Zapatista or part of the Rojava territories, or if they're somehow old enough to remember CNT-FAI or the Paris Commune, all of which were functional.

So you're telling me that the USSR, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela aren't examples of "real communism" or "real socialism"?

USSR, N. Korea, and Cuba were/are socialist, yes (in the case of the USSR and N. Korea, though, under a counterrevolutionary regime). Venezuela is capitalist.

[Nuroblav]

"I'm hungry. Let's get mammoth."

"NOT IF I DON'T GET PAID FIRST LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!"

There are other incentives besides money...

Exactly, we've been hunter-gatherers for far longer than the existence of civilization, and we didn't have hierarchies then. People did what they could and contributed what they could to whoever needed it. That right there was anarcho-primitivist communism, and it worked.

I wouldn't exactly call it anarchist, mind you - they did have leaders on an ad hoc basis, if needed. There's definitely a lot we can learn from older hunter-gatherer societies but a complete return is probably best avoided.

[Cisairse]

Of course not. "There are not pastries in primitive communism, Fraulein Farnham," he told me. "Who would want to live in such a world?"

I’m just saying we shouldn’t exactly be looking so fondly at anarcho-primitivism, given its unfeasibility in modern society. It bothers me a little; the irrational, knee-jerk reaction towards “hierarchy” as an evil boogeyman.

Marxists don't bring up primitive protosocialism because they're anprims. They bring up primitive protocosocialism to dispel the cappie falsehood that money-markets and private property are "natural" to humanity.

[Greed and Death]

Do not save socialism. Everyone to the left of Trump must be detained and forced to work for large corporate conglomerates for minimal wage in substandard living conditions that eat up must of their minimal wage.

[Stylan]

Socialism doesn’t work because when the government is paying you then there is no incentive to work. Also all the companies will move because they are being taxed heavily and nobody is working. I don’t understand how people don’t get this

The government doesn't pay you in socialism please actually fucking read Marx before just saying what you are taught in school

[Stylan]

Only they haven't lived under communism or socialism unless they're from the Zapatista or part of the Rojava territories, or if they're somehow old enough to remember CNT-FAI or the Paris Commune, all of which were functional.

So you're telling me that the USSR, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela aren't examples of "real communism" or "real socialism"?

There are multiple branches of communism.

Venezula is not communist. The USSR and Cuba are/were Marxist-Leninist states, i.e. socialist states (and btw they didn't "fail.") DPRK follows Juche, which is a very odd branch of communist thought.

[Kowani]

I’m just saying we shouldn’t exactly be looking so fondly at anarcho-primitivism, given its unfeasibility in modern society. It bothers me a little; the irrational, knee-jerk reaction towards “hierarchy” as an evil boogeyman.

Marxists don't bring up primitive protosocialism because they're anprims. They bring up primitive protocosocialism to dispel the cappie falsehood that money-markets and private property are "natural" to humanity.

They’d have better luck bringing up the command economies of antiquity, since they’re more likely to get that one right-

[Atheris]

So you're telling me that the USSR, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela aren't examples of "real communism" or "real socialism"?

There are multiple branches of communism.

Venezula is not communist. The USSR and Cuba are/were Marxist-Leninist states, i.e. socialist states (and btw they didn't "fail.") DPRK follows Juche, which is a very odd branch of communist thought.

>the ussr didn't fail
>december 25, 1991

okay

Marxists don't bring up primitive protosocialism because they're anprims. They bring up primitive protocosocialism to dispel the cappie falsehood that money-markets and private property are "natural" to humanity.

They’d have better luck bringing up the command economies of antiquity, since they’re more likely to get that one right-

Can we bring back the Roman Triumph? I feel like that'd be pretty cool.