How to save socialism in the US (and other western countries

[The Reformed American Republic]

I'd say communism hit its peak in 1945 or 1948; right after WW2.

I’d say it is still to come. Despite the real harms to the working class due to the Soviet collapse, both the revolutions bringing democracy to Eastern Europe and the revolution bringing democracy to Russia and most of the rest of the USSR were victories for the working class, precisely because they removed the fundamentally counterrevolutionary regimes that were the most effective barrier to the advance of communism.

The USSR was not democratic at all. It was a dictatorship.

[The Emerald Legion]

Okay, using the Mainfesto as a guide to leftist thought is…problematic at best.

Indeed. You can have leftists like me who are anti-communist, much like you can have right-wingers that are anti-fascist.

Fascism is left wing though.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Indeed. You can have leftists like me who are anti-communist, much like you can have right-wingers that are anti-fascist.

Fascism is left wing though.

No it's not.

[Atheris]

Indeed. You can have leftists like me who are anti-communist, much like you can have right-wingers that are anti-fascist.

Fascism is left wing though.

No it's not. It's not left or right wing. Regardless, it's closer to right-wing politics than left-wing politics, even if you can't fit it neatly on either.

[Kubra]

You digress. The topic is whether or not Venezuela is a socialist country, not whether or not the present governing party fucked the fuck up.

The ruling party is socialist, that is what my criticism of Venezuelan socialists is derived from.

The french socialist party is socialist, but we'd be a bit daft to call the mitterand years France under socialism, no?

[Kubra]

I’d say it is still to come. Despite the real harms to the working class due to the Soviet collapse, both the revolutions bringing democracy to Eastern Europe and the revolution bringing democracy to Russia and most of the rest of the USSR were victories for the working class, precisely because they removed the fundamentally counterrevolutionary regimes that were the most effective barrier to the advance of communism.

The USSR was not democratic at all. It was a dictatorship.

It was not a dictatorship. Nor was it a democracy. I mean it was *kind* of an oligarchy, but even that's not quite right.
In any case, I can emphatically say that the soviet union was complicated. Yes, it was complicated.

[Diopolis]

The USSR was not democratic at all. It was a dictatorship.

It was not a dictatorship. Nor was it a democracy. I mean it was *kind* of an oligarchy, but even that's not quite right.
In any case, I can emphatically say that the soviet union was complicated. Yes, it was complicated.

Different eras were different. The USSR under Stalin was different from the USSR under the gerontocrats.

[Kubra]

It was not a dictatorship. Nor was it a democracy. I mean it was *kind* of an oligarchy, but even that's not quite right.
In any case, I can emphatically say that the soviet union was complicated. Yes, it was complicated.

Different eras were different. The USSR under Stalin was different from the USSR under the gerontocrats.

ok well *maybe* that was a dicatorship
But as you say, different eras were different, and that was a a very peculiar time in the unions existence before it settled in to boring committee dictating to central sub-committee dictating to autonomous sub central committee's standing committee to arrange a provisional interservice committee.

[Eurasies]

The ruling party is socialist, that is what my criticism of Venezuelan socialists is derived from.

The french socialist party is socialist, but we'd be a bit daft to call the mitterand years France under socialism, no?

So do you see it normal for socialists to steal?

[Kubra]

The french socialist party is socialist, but we'd be a bit daft to call the mitterand years France under socialism, no?

So do you see it normal for socialists to steal?

I don't see it as normal for anyone to do anything in particular, apart from eat things that are salty and fried (unless they don't do that sort of thing).
Really now, do you suppose wholesale embezzlement to be peculiar political trait to peculiar ideologies?

[Eurasies]

So do you see it normal for socialists to steal?

I don't see it as normal for anyone to do anything in particular, apart from eat things that are salty and fried (unless they don't do that sort of thing).
Really now, do you suppose wholesale embezzlement to be peculiar political trait to peculiar ideologies?

All politicians steal, from the extreme left to the extreme right, your question is unrelated, we all know, the detail is that the right steals less.

[Kubra]

I don't see it as normal for anyone to do anything in particular, apart from eat things that are salty and fried (unless they don't do that sort of thing).
Really now, do you suppose wholesale embezzlement to be peculiar political trait to peculiar ideologies?

All politicians steal, from the extreme left to the extreme right, your question is unrelated, we all know, the detail is that the right steals less.

Does it? I'm afraid you'll have to substantiate that particular claim.

[Eurasies]

All politicians steal, from the extreme left to the extreme right, your question is unrelated, we all know, the detail is that the right steals less.

Does it? I'm afraid you'll have to substantiate that particular claim.

Do you really believe what governments say? poor innocent soul, an example is the Kirchner family in Argentina, who stole more money than they have the Central Bank of Argentina, SOCIALISTS.

[Kubra]

Does it? I'm afraid you'll have to substantiate that particular claim.

Do you really believe what governments say? poor innocent soul, an example is the Kirchner family in Argentina, who stole more money than they have the Central Bank of Argentina, SOCIALISTS.

I prefer not to argue by anecdotes, but by data tables
tl;dr corruption perception index is roughly about 10% higher under right-wing governments. As you say, all politicians steal, but some steal more than others.
But if we're gonna go by anecdotes, One ferdinand marcos made off with a cool 10 billion, and it'll be surprising if the court get Kirchner for even half that.

[Eurasies]

Do you really believe what governments say? poor innocent soul, an example is the Kirchner family in Argentina, who stole more money than they have the Central Bank of Argentina, SOCIALISTS.

I prefer not to argue by anecdotes, but by data tables
tl;dr corruption perception index is roughly about 10% higher under right-wing governments. As you say, all politicians steal, but some steal more than others.

And who says it ?, first look for information in impartial and professional means, even in wikipedia you can get it, master.

[Kubra]

I prefer not to argue by anecdotes, but by data tables
tl;dr corruption perception index is roughly about 10% higher under right-wing governments. As you say, all politicians steal, but some steal more than others.

And who says it ?, first look for information in impartial and professional means, even in wikipedia you can get it, master.

"who says it?" Evidently, a german professor to an academic conference at Stanford University.

[Eurasies]

And who says it ?, first look for information in impartial and professional means, even in wikipedia you can get it, master.

"who says it?" Evidently, a german professor to an academic conference at Stanford University.

It is so easy to criticize capitalism from capitalism, come to Venezuela, when you literally start eating junk, we will see if you continue supporting the left.

[Kubra]

"who says it?" Evidently, a german professor to an academic conference at Stanford University.

It is so easy to criticize capitalism from capitalism, come to Venezuela, when you literally start eating junk, we will see if you continue supporting the left.

Come to the Philippines, have our KFC leftovers scavenged out of the garbage, picked off the bone, and then recooked for a few pesos a serving.

[Eurasies]

It is so easy to criticize capitalism from capitalism, come to Venezuela, when you literally start eating junk, we will see if you continue supporting the left.

Come to the Philippines, have our KFC leftovers scavenged out of the garbage, picked off the bone, and then recooked for a few pesos a serving.

Ha, in Venezuela people literally eat dead rats and everything there is, socialism is a failure, and more with corruption.

[Kubra]

Come to the Philippines, have our KFC leftovers scavenged out of the garbage, picked off the bone, and then recooked for a few pesos a serving.

Ha, in Venezuela people literally eat dead rats and everything there is, socialism is a failure, and more with corruption.

Freshly caught rat, as I'm sure you'll understand, is somewhat safer to consume than food from a landfill.

[Eurasies]

Ha, in Venezuela people literally eat dead rats and everything there is, socialism is a failure, and more with corruption.

Freshly caught rat, as I'm sure you'll understand, is somewhat safer to consume than food from a landfill.

What an incredible argument.

THEY ARE FACTS, socialism is going to die soon, look for the most prosperous economies in the world, and then if we debate.

[Disgraces]

Peronism gang

[Kubra]

Freshly caught rat, as I'm sure you'll understand, is somewhat safer to consume than food from a landfill.

What an incredible argument.

THEY ARE FACTS, socialism is going to die soon, look for the most prosperous economies in the world, and then if we debate.

It is, isn't it?
Come now, do you think you are the only one to ever suffer? That poverty is something only you may have?

[Eurasies]

What an incredible argument.

THEY ARE FACTS, socialism is going to die soon, look for the most prosperous economies in the world, and then if we debate.

It is, isn't it?
Come now, do you think you are the only one to ever suffer? That poverty is something only you may have?

No, and I am not proud of being poor, it infuriates me, because the government does live the good life in the "imperialist" countries.

[Kubra]

It is, isn't it?
Come now, do you think you are the only one to ever suffer? That poverty is something only you may have?

No, and I am not proud of being poor, it infuriates me, because the government does live the good life in the "imperialist" countries.

Then why do you deign to monopolise it? Oughtn't those who suffer the privations of the political class be on equal footing?