How to save socialism in the US (and other western countries

[Mirjt]

Few. Got that sorted out. Ok, discussion can being again. (sorry about the changed title, but it's what I had to do. If any of you are disappointed, sorry, it's the rules of the mods. Nothing I can do about it.

I also wish we could have a thread for a general conversation regarding socialism, but discussing "how to save socialism in "western" countries" is also a great prompt for discussion. I consider it to be a natural extension of that to discuss how we plan to grow socialism, political strategy (such as electoral strategy or a discussion over peaceful direct action tactics), etc...

I will say that a lot of people seem misinformed or uninformed about socialism (both economic socialism, and the various ethics, philosophies, and ideologies that socialists have adopted or associated themselves with).

[Eurasies]

socialism in the west need not survive it is to be destroyed.

Amen

[Anatoliyanskiy]

Oh boy. I am gonna lay out a few rules here, and i'll eventually add them to the topic thing.

-Rightists are discouraged from posting here, to keep the thread streamlined and not go off topic, though they are welcomed if they have something constructive to say. (the same applies to leftists as well, but they obviously aren't discouraged.)
-We will be discussing why some socialist movements are doing poorly in the west and others decently well.
-All comments made before the change are to be ignored and any debate that was going will stop immediately.
-no flaming or baiting or whatever, for obvious reasons.
-Have fun!

[Eurasies]

Few. Got that sorted out. Ok, discussion can being again. (sorry about the changed title, but it's what I had to do. If any of you are disappointed, sorry, it's the rules of the mods. Nothing I can do about it.

I also wish we could have a thread for a general conversation regarding socialism, but discussing "how to save socialism in "western" countries" is also a great prompt for discussion. I consider it to be a natural extension of that to discuss how we plan to grow socialism, political strategy (such as electoral strategy or a discussion over peaceful direct action tactics), etc...

I will say that a lot of people seem misinformed or uninformed about socialism (both economic socialism, and the various ethics, philosophies, and ideologies that socialists have adopted or associated themselves with).

How can you follow an ideology that created a guy who worked until he was 31, and a daddy and mommy keep?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Oh boy. I am gonna lay out a few rules here, and i'll eventually add them to the topic thing.

-Rightists are not allowed for obvious reasons, go post somewhere else.
-We will be discussing why some socialist movements are doing poorly in the west and others decently well.
-All comments made before the change are to be ignored and any debate that was going will stop immediately.
-no flaming or baiting or whatever, for obvious reasons.
-Have fun!

There's no thread ownership in General.

[Atheris]

Oh boy. I am gonna lay out a few rules here, and i'll eventually add them to the topic thing.

-Rightists are not allowed for obvious reasons, go post somewhere else.
-We will be discussing why some socialist movements are doing poorly in the west and others decently well.
-All comments made before the change are to be ignored and any debate that was going will stop immediately.
-no flaming or baiting or whatever, for obvious reasons.
-Have fun!

Saying rightists are not allowed does not give way for healthy political discussion. If you wish to have an avid discussion about socialism in the United States and the West, then healthy debate should be a priority.

If the rightists are trolling, then it's better to report them rather than ban them from the thread.

[Eurasies]

Oh boy. I am gonna lay out a few rules here, and i'll eventually add them to the topic thing.

-Rightists are not allowed for obvious reasons, go post somewhere else.
-We will be discussing why some socialist movements are doing poorly in the west and others decently well.
-All comments made before the change are to be ignored and any debate that was going will stop immediately.
-no flaming or baiting or whatever, for obvious reasons.
-Have fun!

Well then I'll go, it was a pleasure at least, take care, "COMRADES".

[Dominioan]

After Bernie Sanders lost the Democratic nomination for president to Joe Biden, a moderate, some concerns have arisen to the survival of socialism in western democracies. After a huge Labour defeat in the UK election, a substantial loss of seats from the NDP and a large right-wing resurgence in the EU, the general socialist ideology has suffered in the past 5 years or so in the West. What can we do to save it? And what has been the instrument of it's decline?
I do know that in some western countries, like Mexico and the Nordic Countries, socialism has prevailed to an extent, so what has kept it going there but not in other places? (sorry about having to delete the poll, but this thread needed a major makeover.)

Oops. Even though I attempted to try and make a socialist thread, I have a feeling this is just going to end up like the LWDT because some players can't behave themselves. I am going to make it clear: If you do not support socialism, then don't post hear. Thank god it hasn't been locked yet. I am going to change a few things. Please don't post here while I do that.

Note that the discussion here should be kept at least PG-13, and please, don't stray away from the topic. Please.

And finally, have fun!

The nordic countries are not socialist, they are social democratic capitalist welfare states. They have large public sectors, but they are not socialist.

[Federal Republic Of America And The Cari]

Okay, using the Mainfesto as a guide to leftist thought is…problematic at best.

Indeed. You can have leftists like me who are anti-communist, much like you can have right-wingers that are anti-fascist.

Well true

[Kubra]

Fascism is capitalism. Just illiberal, anti-market capitalism made possible by terror against the left.

Nazi Germany was a corporate paradise, right?, it is the THIRD WAY, neither left nor right, I think it is already wrong to define political trends as left or right, communism is only found in Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea .

Er, yes, it was quite a good place to be a corporation.

[Kowani]

...None of those countries are communist.

Oh no ?, in Cuba health and education are free and there is no private property,

Not what communism is.
Also, it’s untrue.

here in Venezuela the government expropriated any private company that was,

See, the first reason this isn’t communism (besides the fact that it isn’t true) is the phrase, “government did X.”

North Korea I do not have much knowledge, but they are communists.

They’re about as communist as they are democratic.

[All Countryhumans]

Communism is literally scientific socialism, Marx and Engels say it in the manifesto.

Communism is the end goal of socialism.

Socialism allows capital, and private property, and isn't fundamentally anti-capitalist; see democratic socialism.

Democracy x socialism = fascism

[Atheris]

Communism is the end goal of socialism.

Socialism allows capital, and private property, and isn't fundamentally anti-capitalist; see democratic socialism.

Democracy x socialism = fascism

It's more along the lines of "Democracy x socialism / capitalism + communism = fascism".

[Lavan Tiri]

I honestly think leftism in the US is undergoing the beginnings of a massive growth. With the combination of a massive pandemic, eye-opening uprisings against the current system, a massively popular self-proclaimed socialist running for President twice, and a generation growing up without the shadow of the USSR, I believe we'll soon be seeing a strong leftward push in America.

[Atheris]

I honestly think leftism in the US is undergoing the beginnings of a massive growth. With the combination of a massive pandemic, eye-opening uprisings against the current system, a massively popular self-proclaimed socialist running for President twice, and a generation growing up without the shadow of the USSR, I believe we'll soon be seeing a strong leftward push in America.

I don't think it'll be "massive". It may have some effects on the economy and definitely politically, especially when you factor in that the US is currently ending its militarist phase in its cycle.

[Stellar Colonies]

Oh boy. I am gonna lay out a few rules here, and i'll eventually add them to the topic thing.

-Rightists are not allowed for obvious reasons, go post somewhere else.
-We will be discussing why some socialist movements are doing poorly in the west and others decently well.
-All comments made before the change are to be ignored and any debate that was going will stop immediately.
-no flaming or baiting or whatever, for obvious reasons.
-Have fun!

You can't exclude people from a thread.

[Eurasies]

Oh no ?, in Cuba health and education are free and there is no private property,

Not what communism is.
Also, it’s untrue.

here in Venezuela the government expropriated any private company that was,

See, the first reason this isn’t communism (besides the fact that it isn’t true) is the phrase, “government did X.”

North Korea I do not have much knowledge, but they are communists.

They’re about as communist as they are democratic.

They already banned me, so I can't discuss it, but not because I have no arguments, they just don't let me, anyway, all the reds are the same, repressing the truth.

[Farnhamia]

Oh boy. I am gonna lay out a few rules here, and i'll eventually add them to the topic thing.

-Rightists are not allowed for obvious reasons, go post somewhere else.
-We will be discussing why some socialist movements are doing poorly in the west and others decently well.
-All comments made before the change are to be ignored and any debate that was going will stop immediately.
-no flaming or baiting or whatever, for obvious reasons.
-Have fun!

You can't exclude people from a thread.

Quite right.

[Eurasies]

You can't exclude people from a thread.

Quite right.

Can I continue to argue or not?

[Lavan Tiri]

I honestly think leftism in the US is undergoing the beginnings of a massive growth. With the combination of a massive pandemic, eye-opening uprisings against the current system, a massively popular self-proclaimed socialist running for President twice, and a generation growing up without the shadow of the USSR, I believe we'll soon be seeing a strong leftward push in America.

I don't think it'll be "massive". It may have some effects on the economy and definitely politically, especially when you factor in that the US is currently ending its militarist phase in its cycle.

Note the word "beginnings". Everything takes time, especially in a nation as conservative as the USA.

[Dominioan]

You can't exclude people from a thread.

Quite right.

Ooooh. Dark red.

Socialism in the US will see a growth soon-now that people aren't scared of the USSR anymore, leftism can be pushed by a younger generation. And with all these events, there is sure to be a change. Maybe not big, but a change.

[Kubra]

Quite right.

Can I continue to argue or not?

you most certainly can. No poster can bar other posters from posting.

[Anatoliyanskiy]

Dear. I am on the fence of just posting another thread, as the transition has not gone well. And rightists are not banned anymore.

[Kowani]

Quite right.

Can I continue to argue or not?

Yes.

[Eurasies]

Quite right.

Ooooh. Dark red.

Socialism in the US will see a growth soon-now that people aren't scared of the USSR anymore, leftism can be pushed by a younger generation. And with all these events, there is sure to be a change. Maybe not big, but a change.

Sadly, yes, millennials will wreck more than one nation.