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Reddit Starts One-Sided Censorship

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Unstoppable Empire of Doom
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:14 pm

Ya! Lets all go cyber bully Han chinese people!


...what?

Thats not the majority?

Ohhhhh this is another white people bad thing isnt it?
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The Two Jerseys
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:18 pm

They must be using the Merriam-Webster definition of "hate speech"...
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Uiiop
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Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Uiiop » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:32 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:They must be using the Merriam-Webster definition of "hate speech"...

What reddit is doing is way dumber and actually has the unfortunate implications whatever Merriam's doing lacks.

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Bear Stearns
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:45 pm

More alarming has been the simultaneous purge conducted by YouTube.
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Cekoviu
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Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:50 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:More alarming has been the simultaneous purge conducted by YouTube.

oh no stefan molyneux can't post his plagiarized powerpoints about how feeemales destroyed rome anymore, what a tragic loss of a cultural institution, literally shaking & crying rn
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The Alma Mater
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Alma Mater » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:59 pm

So what is the majority of reddit users - and how will they respond if due to these rules that majority changes ?

Example: say that currently the majority is gay. Would gaybashing then be fine until the influx of enthusiastic gaybashers has caused the balance to shift?
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Diarcesia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Diarcesia » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:01 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:So what is the majority of reddit users - and how will they respond if due to these rules that majority changes ?

Example: say that currently the majority is gay. Would gaybashing then be fine until the influx of enthusiastic gaybashers has caused the balance to shift?

Congratulations. They just played themselves.
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The Two Jerseys
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:02 pm

Diarcesia wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:So what is the majority of reddit users - and how will they respond if due to these rules that majority changes ?

Example: say that currently the majority is gay. Would gaybashing then be fine until the influx of enthusiastic gaybashers has caused the balance to shift?

Congratulations. They just played themselves.

Nah, Reddit will just move the goalposts to "we meant the majority in society, not on Reddit!".
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
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The Alma Mater
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Alma Mater » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:04 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Diarcesia wrote:Congratulations. They just played themselves.

Nah, Reddit will just move the goalposts to "we meant the majority in society, not on Reddit!".

So if one uses a vpn to pretend one lives in Indonesia, muslimbashing would be fine ?
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Aureumterra
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby Aureumterra » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:05 pm

"This rule does not protect people who are in the majority"

So I can be racist to straight Christian Han Chinese Women without consequence?
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Galloism
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:06 pm

Diarcesia wrote:We live in a society

The rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority


It also means it doesn't protect the Chinese against discrimination (since they're the most populous country).

And males as well? Galloism, take note.

I’d say since men are the minority and women are the majority, this is ripe for a misstep and a lawsuit turning on the definition of “majority”.

They did ban r/gendercritical though, most likely because of their blatant hatred of trans folk, so it’s not 100% bad.
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Purgatio
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Purgatio » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:07 pm

Its honestly ridiculous that the Gender Critical sub-reddit and Right-Wing LGBT sub-reddit were banned. There was absolutely nothing on either subreddit that could even plausibly described as 'hateful', unless the argument is being right-wing and LGBT, or being a gender-critical feminist, is now somehow an inherently 'hateful' thing to do. Reddit is really just single-handedly banning entire political opinions altogether under the guise of preventing 'hate speech'. But really, if you hold certain political opinions, there's no respectful and civil way for you to express it without Reddit deeming it to be 'hate speech'.
An Introduction to Purgatio

Results
Work, Liberty, Order
Essentialism - 57%
Punitive Justice - 93%
Progressivism - 71%
Nationalism - 64%
Capitalism - 100%
Laissez-faire - 100%
Productivism - 93%
Reformism - 86%
Other Values - Monarchism

Results
Fanatic Unitary - 94%
Fanatic Authoritarian - 94%
Moderate Isolationist - 62%
Militarist - 78%
Extreme Security - 86%
Fanatic Markets - 98%
Moderate Religious - 62%
Progressive - 58%
Fanatic Assimilationist - 90%

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Cekoviu
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Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:08 pm

Purgatio wrote:Its honestly ridiculous that the Gender Critical sub-reddit and Right-Wing LGBT sub-reddit were banned. There was absolutely nothing on either subreddit that could even plausibly described as 'hateful', unless the argument is being right-wing and LGBT, or being a gender-critical feminist, is now somehow an inherently 'hateful' thing to do. Reddit is really just single-handedly banning entire political opinions altogether under the guise of preventing 'hate speech'. But really, if you hold certain political opinions, there's no respectful and civil way for you to express it without Reddit deeming it to be 'hate speech'.

the """"""gender critical"""""" subreddit was chock-full of hate speech against transgenders, wtf are you on about
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The Two Jerseys
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:09 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:Nah, Reddit will just move the goalposts to "we meant the majority in society, not on Reddit!".

So if one uses a vpn to pretend one lives in Indonesia, muslimbashing would be fine ?

-"I don't understand this, the level of traffic we're getting from Indonesia would only be possible if the country's population jumped by 500 million overnight!"
-"Hmm, this seems suspicious..."
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
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Purgatio
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Founded: May 18, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Purgatio » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:11 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Purgatio wrote:Its honestly ridiculous that the Gender Critical sub-reddit and Right-Wing LGBT sub-reddit were banned. There was absolutely nothing on either subreddit that could even plausibly described as 'hateful', unless the argument is being right-wing and LGBT, or being a gender-critical feminist, is now somehow an inherently 'hateful' thing to do. Reddit is really just single-handedly banning entire political opinions altogether under the guise of preventing 'hate speech'. But really, if you hold certain political opinions, there's no respectful and civil way for you to express it without Reddit deeming it to be 'hate speech'.

the """"""gender critical"""""" subreddit was chock-full of hate speech against transgenders, wtf are you on about


It really wasn't. At all. Its not 'hate speech' to simply disagree with something. r/GenderCritical simply promoted a differing view of feminism, one that defined "women" (the class deemed to be oppressed by patriarchy and in need of liberation) based on biological sex, rather than gender identity.

That's not a hateful opinion. Its an opinion trans people understandably vociferously disagree with, but that doesn't make it 'hate speech'. There ought to be room for a free and diverse marketplace of ideas on views like this, including whether feminism and women's liberation movements are better defined around biological sex or gender identity. Rather than banning an entire position on that controversial issue as 'hate speech', which stifles discussion and discourse in feminist circles.
An Introduction to Purgatio

Results
Work, Liberty, Order
Essentialism - 57%
Punitive Justice - 93%
Progressivism - 71%
Nationalism - 64%
Capitalism - 100%
Laissez-faire - 100%
Productivism - 93%
Reformism - 86%
Other Values - Monarchism

Results
Fanatic Unitary - 94%
Fanatic Authoritarian - 94%
Moderate Isolationist - 62%
Militarist - 78%
Extreme Security - 86%
Fanatic Markets - 98%
Moderate Religious - 62%
Progressive - 58%
Fanatic Assimilationist - 90%

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The Alma Mater
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Founded: May 23, 2004
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Alma Mater » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:11 pm

Purgatio wrote:Its honestly ridiculous that the Gender Critical sub-reddit and Right-Wing LGBT sub-reddit were banned. There was absolutely nothing on either subreddit that could even plausibly described as 'hateful', unless the argument is being right-wing and LGBT, or being a gender-critical feminist, is now somehow an inherently 'hateful' thing to do. Reddit is really just single-handedly banning entire political opinions altogether under the guise of preventing 'hate speech'. But really, if you hold certain political opinions, there's no respectful and civil way for you to express it without Reddit deeming it to be 'hate speech'.


Which is ofc fine. Reddit is a private company after all, if they dislike a certain speech in their home they can toss the speakers out. Just like the mods here can do.

But they should just outright say that instead of using silly implications like "it is fine to be racist against the majority".
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It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Founded: May 23, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:13 pm

Wallenburg wrote:Ah yes, shutting down harassment and hate groups is so awful. In fact, it's just as bad as Nazi Germany.

Its a bad argument, but OP does have a point about this being applied inconsistently.
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Galloism
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Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:13 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Purgatio wrote:Its honestly ridiculous that the Gender Critical sub-reddit and Right-Wing LGBT sub-reddit were banned. There was absolutely nothing on either subreddit that could even plausibly described as 'hateful', unless the argument is being right-wing and LGBT, or being a gender-critical feminist, is now somehow an inherently 'hateful' thing to do. Reddit is really just single-handedly banning entire political opinions altogether under the guise of preventing 'hate speech'. But really, if you hold certain political opinions, there's no respectful and civil way for you to express it without Reddit deeming it to be 'hate speech'.


Which is ofc fine. Reddit is a private company after all, if they dislike a certain speech in their home they can toss the speakers out. Just like the mods here can do.

But they should just outright say that instead of using silly implications like "it is fine to be racist against the majority".

Honesty isn’t woke enough.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Purgatio
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Purgatio » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:13 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Purgatio wrote:Its honestly ridiculous that the Gender Critical sub-reddit and Right-Wing LGBT sub-reddit were banned. There was absolutely nothing on either subreddit that could even plausibly described as 'hateful', unless the argument is being right-wing and LGBT, or being a gender-critical feminist, is now somehow an inherently 'hateful' thing to do. Reddit is really just single-handedly banning entire political opinions altogether under the guise of preventing 'hate speech'. But really, if you hold certain political opinions, there's no respectful and civil way for you to express it without Reddit deeming it to be 'hate speech'.


Which is ofc fine. Reddit is a private company after all, if they dislike a certain speech in their home they can toss the speakers out. Just like the mods here can do.

But they should just outright say that instead of using silly implications like "it is fine to be racist against the majority".


Of course Reddit is legally allowed to do it, no questions about that. But it irks me the way they are framing this, the whole 'Remember the Human' and 'Rule 1' and going on and on about how you cannot 'promote hate' on a 'vulnerable community'. Its nonsense. Nothing in r/GenderCritical or r/RightWingLGBT preyed on or attacked vulnerable communities or minorities, they just promoted views that some in those communities disagree with. Has it become hateful now to just express differing opinions on an issue, where some in a minority community might disgaree or take issue?

I think the biggest issue is Reddit hasn't given us a coherent definition of what counts as 'hate speech', or a failure to 'Remember the Human' as they would put it. The people on r/LGBDropTheT are already starting to get worried about their subreddit getting banned, and I don't blame them, because its impossible to follow the rules when its thoroughly unclear what the rules even are. 'Remember the Human' is not a useful rule or even a useful guideline.
An Introduction to Purgatio

Results
Work, Liberty, Order
Essentialism - 57%
Punitive Justice - 93%
Progressivism - 71%
Nationalism - 64%
Capitalism - 100%
Laissez-faire - 100%
Productivism - 93%
Reformism - 86%
Other Values - Monarchism

Results
Fanatic Unitary - 94%
Fanatic Authoritarian - 94%
Moderate Isolationist - 62%
Militarist - 78%
Extreme Security - 86%
Fanatic Markets - 98%
Moderate Religious - 62%
Progressive - 58%
Fanatic Assimilationist - 90%

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Galloism
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Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:15 pm

Purgatio wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Which is ofc fine. Reddit is a private company after all, if they dislike a certain speech in their home they can toss the speakers out. Just like the mods here can do.

But they should just outright say that instead of using silly implications like "it is fine to be racist against the majority".


Of course Reddit is legally allowed to do it, no questions about that. But it irks me the way they are framing this, the whole 'Remember the Human' and 'Rule 1' and going on and on about how you cannot 'promote hate' on a 'vulnerable community'. Its nonsense. Nothing in r/GenderCritical or r/RightWingLGBT preyed on or attacked vulnerable communities or minorities, they just promoted views that some in those communities disagree with. Has it become hateful now to just express differing opinions on an issue, where some in a minority community might disgaree or take issue?

I think the biggest issue is Reddit hasn't given us a coherent definition of what counts as 'hate speech', or a failure to 'Remember the Human' as they would put it. The people on r/LGBDropTheT are already starting to get worried about their subreddit getting banned, and I don't blame them, because its impossible to follow the rules when its thoroughly unclear what the rules even are. 'Remember the Human' is not a useful rule or even a useful guideline.

r/leftwingmaleadvocates is also nervous.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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The Lone Alliance
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Lone Alliance » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:16 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:More alarming has been the simultaneous purge conducted by YouTube.

So Collusion by the tech industry?
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Purgatio
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Founded: May 18, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Purgatio » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:16 pm

Galloism wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
Of course Reddit is legally allowed to do it, no questions about that. But it irks me the way they are framing this, the whole 'Remember the Human' and 'Rule 1' and going on and on about how you cannot 'promote hate' on a 'vulnerable community'. Its nonsense. Nothing in r/GenderCritical or r/RightWingLGBT preyed on or attacked vulnerable communities or minorities, they just promoted views that some in those communities disagree with. Has it become hateful now to just express differing opinions on an issue, where some in a minority community might disgaree or take issue?

I think the biggest issue is Reddit hasn't given us a coherent definition of what counts as 'hate speech', or a failure to 'Remember the Human' as they would put it. The people on r/LGBDropTheT are already starting to get worried about their subreddit getting banned, and I don't blame them, because its impossible to follow the rules when its thoroughly unclear what the rules even are. 'Remember the Human' is not a useful rule or even a useful guideline.

r/leftwingmaleadvocates is also nervous.


Siiiiiighs....

This is Kafkesque in the extreme. When subreddits aren't even sure what kind of content is or is not against the new 'Rule 1', vibrant speech and discourse on controversial topics becomes basically impossible. What are moderators even supposed to do to prevent their subreddits from getting banned? Literally no one knows. That's the problem.
An Introduction to Purgatio

Results
Work, Liberty, Order
Essentialism - 57%
Punitive Justice - 93%
Progressivism - 71%
Nationalism - 64%
Capitalism - 100%
Laissez-faire - 100%
Productivism - 93%
Reformism - 86%
Other Values - Monarchism

Results
Fanatic Unitary - 94%
Fanatic Authoritarian - 94%
Moderate Isolationist - 62%
Militarist - 78%
Extreme Security - 86%
Fanatic Markets - 98%
Moderate Religious - 62%
Progressive - 58%
Fanatic Assimilationist - 90%

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Cekoviu
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Posts: 16076
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:16 pm

Purgatio wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:the """"""gender critical"""""" subreddit was chock-full of hate speech against transgenders, wtf are you on about


It really wasn't. At all. Its not 'hate speech' to simply disagree with something. r/GenderCritical simply promoted a differing view of feminism, one that defined "women" (the class deemed to be oppressed by patriarchy and in need of liberation) based on biological sex, rather than gender identity.

That's not a hateful opinion. Its an opinion trans people understandably vociferously disagree with, but that doesn't make it 'hate speech'. There ought to be room for a free and diverse marketplace of ideas on views like this, including whether feminism and women's liberation movements are better defined around biological sex or gender identity. Rather than banning an entire position on that controversial issue as 'hate speech', which stifles discussion and discourse in feminist circles.

there is a difference between holding a differing view of feminism and constantly spewing vile vitriol about trans women. /r/GenderCritical did the latter, not just the former.
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New Bremerton
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby New Bremerton » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:18 pm

I live in a Malay, Muslim-majority country. Does that mean I can be racist and bigoted toward Malays and Muslims now? I have a feeling the answer is NO, but blacks and Muslims in the West are free to be as bigoted and disgusting as they wish to Jews and white people. I was recently considering setting up a Reddit account, but this right here rules it out now.

Let it also be known that Reddit previously accepted funding from CCP-linked company Tencent.

Fuck Reddit.
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Purgatio
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Posts: 6304
Founded: May 18, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Purgatio » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:18 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
It really wasn't. At all. Its not 'hate speech' to simply disagree with something. r/GenderCritical simply promoted a differing view of feminism, one that defined "women" (the class deemed to be oppressed by patriarchy and in need of liberation) based on biological sex, rather than gender identity.

That's not a hateful opinion. Its an opinion trans people understandably vociferously disagree with, but that doesn't make it 'hate speech'. There ought to be room for a free and diverse marketplace of ideas on views like this, including whether feminism and women's liberation movements are better defined around biological sex or gender identity. Rather than banning an entire position on that controversial issue as 'hate speech', which stifles discussion and discourse in feminist circles.

there is a difference between holding a differing view of feminism and constantly spewing vile vitriol about trans women. /r/GenderCritical did the latter, not just the former.


When did they "spew vile vitriol about trans women"? They sometimes raised awareness about the violence perpetrated by some trans women, like Tara Wolf, Katie Dolatowski, Jessica Yaniv, and Karen White, but that's not the same as spewing "vile vitriol" about all trans women. Its perfectly legitimate for the people on r/GenderCritical to be both concerned about VAW, and advocate policies on sex-segregated spaces that trans rights advocates might disagree with. There's simply no way of doing that without it being deemed 'hate speech' or 'transphobic', when all you're really doing is advocating a policy position that trans people disagree with.
An Introduction to Purgatio

Results
Work, Liberty, Order
Essentialism - 57%
Punitive Justice - 93%
Progressivism - 71%
Nationalism - 64%
Capitalism - 100%
Laissez-faire - 100%
Productivism - 93%
Reformism - 86%
Other Values - Monarchism

Results
Fanatic Unitary - 94%
Fanatic Authoritarian - 94%
Moderate Isolationist - 62%
Militarist - 78%
Extreme Security - 86%
Fanatic Markets - 98%
Moderate Religious - 62%
Progressive - 58%
Fanatic Assimilationist - 90%

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