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Reddit Starts One-Sided Censorship

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:05 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
I don't know how the law has changed, or if it's something about tech companies in particular, but IBM and Microsoft defended themselves just fine. As to AT&T they were in a compromised position, having operated for years as an authorized monopoly, and even so there's no saying they couldn't have fought the government.

As to nationalizing them, how much of the market value were you thinking of paying?


IBM defended itself by giving up it's monopoly on its own tech. It basically let anyone build IBM parts and such.


I suppose that's a significant concession.
Most computers were "IBM compatible" for quite a while and the clone makers sold a lot of units.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:09 am

Zapato wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
Most anti-discrimination laws like the Equality Act 2010 allow private businesses to institute policies that would be prima facie discriminatory, but which pursues a legitimate aim and comports with proportionality. For instance, having a support group for sufferers of gay conversion therapy is a policy that would include gay people and not straight people, that's prima facie discriminatory based on sexual orientation, but could be argued to be compatible with the principle of proportionality and it pursues a legitimate aim and interest. So in your example, we could just apply the test of proportionality to YouTube's policy and let a court figure out whether the argument flies. This is not a new concept. The Equality Act 2010 in the UK is based on precisely this system that I'm suggesting should be extended to discrimination based on political conscience.

If you, as a private person, want to make a website for "Jewish survivors of the Holocaust", you'll have to be prepared to spend thousands of dollars on legal fees every time you deny access to a nazi - and you might end up losing. That sounds like a great plan.


Uhm...if this website is for only 'jewish' survivors, it's already covered under the exemptions that Purgatio brought up.
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Purgatio
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Purgatio » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:15 am

Zapato wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
Most anti-discrimination laws like the Equality Act 2010 allow private businesses to institute policies that would be prima facie discriminatory, but which pursues a legitimate aim and comports with proportionality. For instance, having a support group for sufferers of gay conversion therapy is a policy that would include gay people and not straight people, that's prima facie discriminatory based on sexual orientation, but could be argued to be compatible with the principle of proportionality and it pursues a legitimate aim and interest. So in your example, we could just apply the test of proportionality to YouTube's policy and let a court figure out whether the argument flies. This is not a new concept. The Equality Act 2010 in the UK is based on precisely this system that I'm suggesting should be extended to discrimination based on political conscience.

If you, as a private person, want to make a website for "Jewish survivors of the Holocaust", you'll have to be prepared to spend thousands of dollars on legal fees every time you deny access to a nazi - and you might end up losing. That sounds like a great plan.


Lmao do you just not get how legal precedent, case law, and res judicata work? Judicial precedent exists for a reason.
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No State Here
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Anarchy

Postby No State Here » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:40 am

If your favorite subreddit got banned, consider it a badge of honor, because it means one of two things, either it hurt Steve Huffman’s feelings, or it hurt China’s feelings
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Zapato
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Zapato » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:41 am

Purgatio wrote:
Zapato wrote:If you, as a private person, want to make a website for "Jewish survivors of the Holocaust", you'll have to be prepared to spend thousands of dollars on legal fees every time you deny access to a nazi - and you might end up losing. That sounds like a great plan.


Lmao do you just not get how legal precedent, case law, and res judicata work? Judicial precedent exists for a reason.

I get how legal fees work. For every user denied who can sue to see if their particular circumstances means that their denial is justified or unjustifiable discrimination the legal fees rack up. It can be costly for the private person to defend themselves in court, and a death by a thousand cuts is still a death.


Player: "Let me make a thread about responsible reporting in the media"
Mod team: "No, because people might start discussing rape, because NSG."

*Lock*

(Meanwhile, the thread discussing rape is left open)

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No State Here
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Anarchy

Postby No State Here » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:42 am


I spammed the China copypasta on every leftist sub I could find, I’m curious to see how long until Reddit deletes my account
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
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Cekoviu
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:46 am

No State Here wrote:If your favorite subreddit got banned, consider it a badge of honor, because it means one of two things, either it hurt Steve Huffman’s feelings, or it hurt China’s feelings

no worries, i'm not a subhuman so none of my favorite subreddits were banned :^)
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Zapato
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Zapato » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:50 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Zapato wrote:If you, as a private person, want to make a website for "Jewish survivors of the Holocaust", you'll have to be prepared to spend thousands of dollars on legal fees every time you deny access to a nazi - and you might end up losing. That sounds like a great plan.


Uhm...if this website is for only 'jewish' survivors, it's already covered under the exemptions that Purgatio brought up.

But we'll have to "let a court figure out" if the exemption applies. Do you know how much that will cost in the US?

Enough that I would not want to start up such a website.


Player: "Let me make a thread about responsible reporting in the media"
Mod team: "No, because people might start discussing rape, because NSG."

*Lock*

(Meanwhile, the thread discussing rape is left open)

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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:51 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:You can nationalize tech companies and then break them up. Or you can give them the ma bell treatment


I don't know how the law has changed, or if it's something about tech companies in particular, but IBM and Microsoft defended themselves just fine. As to AT&T they were in a compromised position, having operated for years as an authorized monopoly, and even so there's no saying they couldn't have fought the government.

As to nationalizing them, how much of the market value were you thinking of paying?

Paying? Hardly. The CEOs would be lucky to not be thrown in prison
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Stylan
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Stylan » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:55 am

Tornado Queendom wrote:
Rule 1: Remember the human. Reddit is a place for creating community and belonging, not for attacking marginalized or vulnerable groups of people. Everyone has a right to use Reddit free of harassment, bullying, and threats of violence. Communities and people that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.

Marginalized or vulnerable groups include, but are not limited to, groups based on their actual and perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, immigration status, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, pregnancy, or disability. These include victims of a major violent event and their families.

While the rule on hate protects such groups, it does not protect all groups or all forms of identity. For example, the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority or who promote such attacks of hate.

It's official, Reddit is turning into a reverse Nazi Germany (which is just as bad as the real Nazi Germany). Not to mention, r/BigChungus also got banned. That ALONE is not a good idea in my opinion

I don't think a social media platform is really the same as Nazi Germany idk tho
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Kargintina the Third
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Corporate Bordello

Postby Kargintina the Third » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:57 am

Reddit is a privately owned website they can censor who they please
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The Emerald Legion
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Emerald Legion » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:58 am

Kargintina the Third wrote:Reddit is a privately owned website they can censor who they please


Giant is a privately owned Grocery Store, they can sell, or not sell, to who they please.
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Stylan
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Stylan » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:00 am

Kargintina the Third wrote:Reddit is a privately owned website they can censor who they please

wrong way to respond to this
Tankie, I guess.

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Kargintina the Third
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Founded: Dec 17, 2019
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kargintina the Third » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:00 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Kargintina the Third wrote:Reddit is a privately owned website they can censor who they please


Giant is a privately owned Grocery Store, they can sell, or not sell, to who they please.

Correct
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:05 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
I don't know how the law has changed, or if it's something about tech companies in particular, but IBM and Microsoft defended themselves just fine. As to AT&T they were in a compromised position, having operated for years as an authorized monopoly, and even so there's no saying they couldn't have fought the government.

As to nationalizing them, how much of the market value were you thinking of paying?

Paying? Hardly. The CEOs would be lucky to not be thrown in prison


Count me out. That's just vandalism.
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Holy Tedalonia
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Holy Tedalonia » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:09 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Paying? Hardly. The CEOs would be lucky to not be thrown in prison


Count me out. That's just vandalism.

I mean you do that to any monopoly and monopsony, since the economy becomes very screwed up at that rate. We're getting to a point where tech companies hold more influence and power than ever before. Some would say they are the modern robber barons of this era. Wouldn't be to bad to knock them down a few pegs.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:14 am

Holy Tedalonia wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Count me out. That's just vandalism.

I mean you do that to any monopoly and monopsony, since the economy becomes very screwed up at that rate. We're getting to a point where tech companies hold more influence and power than ever before. Some would say they are the modern robber barons of this era. Wouldn't be to bad to knock them down a few pegs.


WRA's suggestion was to break them up, a la the Bell monopoly. I'm willing to consider that.

Seizing corporations for no compensation is robbing from all the shareholders, the immediate effect is as you say, to screw up the economy. But the asset itself will rapidly depreciate because it will lose all its customers. I call that vandalism.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:20 am

Zapato wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Uhm...if this website is for only 'jewish' survivors, it's already covered under the exemptions that Purgatio brought up.

But we'll have to "let a court figure out" if the exemption applies. Do you know how much that will cost in the US?

Enough that I would not want to start up such a website.

I think that allowing discrimination against people on grounds of conscience or political affiliation does more harm than the possibility that a few small websites might have to pay a few thousand dollars in legal fees; legal fees that, if they're doing nothing wrong in the first place, they won't have to pay.
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Lanoraie II
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Lanoraie II » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:21 am

Imagine using r*ddit. These rules were written for manchildren and womenchildren who can't function as competent members of society and feel the need to blame everything wrong with their life on the majority, their scapegoat. I'm a bisexual disabled woman and the only problems in my life are from my parents and a small handful of people who failed me. Not necessarily society as a whole. There are society-wide problems for sure, but generalizing, let's see.....anywhere from the entire population of one's country to the entire world is quite a heavy handed and arrogant move.

Also, just because reddit is "privately owned" does not excuse this godawful handling of their website and userbase. They are immensely popular and have a responsibility to be fair and respectful.
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Stylan
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Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Stylan » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:24 am

Lanoraie II wrote:Imagine using r*ddit. These rules were written for manchildren and womenchildren who can't function as competent members of society and feel the need to blame everything wrong with their life on the majority, their scapegoat. I'm a bisexual disabled woman and the only problems in my life are from my parents and a small handful of people who failed me. Not necessarily society as a whole. There are society-wide problems for sure, but generalizing, let's see.....anywhere from the entire population of one's country to the entire world is quite a heavy handed and arrogant move.

Also, just because reddit is "privately owned" does not excuse this godawful handling of their website and userbase. They are immensely popular and have a responsibility to be fair and respectful.

Under capitalism (which don't get me wrong, I don't defend) they have zero resposibility to do anything.

Your personal experience doesn't outweigh facts. As a straight white man I could say I was persecuted because x y z but statistics don't back it up.

One of the gravest dangers of political discourse online is the tendency for people to take their personal experiences as the way of the world.
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Gormwood
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:29 am

Stylan wrote:Your personal experience doesn't outweigh facts. As a straight white man I could say I was persecuted because x y z but statistics don't back it up.

One of the gravest dangers of political discourse online is the tendency for people to take their personal experiences as the way of the world.

That's really not an impediment on NationStatea General, unfottunately.
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Anurial
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Anurial » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:31 am

The reason so many of your favourite subreddits were banned was that they were full of Nazis and alt-righters. Weird to see "ancaps" defend this. The only exception to that was ChapoTrapHouse which was toxic enough anyway. I dunno about you but banning Nazis from using the site as the rest of large social media platforms do seems pretty reasonable to ensure a better environment for everyone else. On a last point, it seems odd that again supposed "ancaps" have a problem with what private companies want to add to their terms of service.
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Lanoraie II
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Lanoraie II » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:32 am

Stylan wrote:
Lanoraie II wrote:Imagine using r*ddit. These rules were written for manchildren and womenchildren who can't function as competent members of society and feel the need to blame everything wrong with their life on the majority, their scapegoat. I'm a bisexual disabled woman and the only problems in my life are from my parents and a small handful of people who failed me. Not necessarily society as a whole. There are society-wide problems for sure, but generalizing, let's see.....anywhere from the entire population of one's country to the entire world is quite a heavy handed and arrogant move.

Also, just because reddit is "privately owned" does not excuse this godawful handling of their website and userbase. They are immensely popular and have a responsibility to be fair and respectful.

Under capitalism (which don't get me wrong, I don't defend) they have zero resposibility to do anything.

Your personal experience doesn't outweigh facts. As a straight white man I could say I was persecuted because x y z but statistics don't back it up.

One of the gravest dangers of political discourse online is the tendency for people to take their personal experiences as the way of the world.


That goes for both sides though. And where did I say it outweighs facts? I'm not stupid enough to blame every single male for the actions of my rapist and abuser.
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Gormwood
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:34 am

Anurial wrote:The reason so many of your favourite subreddits were banned was that they were full of Nazis and alt-righters. Weird to see "ancaps" defend this. The only exception to that was ChapoTrapHouse which was toxic enough anyway. I dunno about you but banning Nazis from using the site as the rest of large social media platforms do seems pretty reasonable to ensure a better environment for everyone else. On a last point, it seems odd that again supposed "ancaps" have a problem with what private companies want to add to their terms of service.

It's more "Just enough anarchy to let them do what they want and restrict your rights, while trying to profit off capitalism with unfair advantages."
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Stylan
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Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Stylan » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:36 am

Anurial wrote:The reason so many of your favourite subreddits were banned was that they were full of Nazis and alt-righters. Weird to see "ancaps" defend this. The only exception to that was ChapoTrapHouse which was toxic enough anyway. I dunno about you but banning Nazis from using the site as the rest of large social media platforms do seems pretty reasonable to ensure a better environment for everyone else. On a last point, it seems odd that again supposed "ancaps" have a problem with what private companies want to add to their terms of service.

WAIT WHAT THE FUCK CHAPO WAS BANNED

But yeah, i agree, this whole "omg we're being oppressed because Facebook doesn't want a giant swastika on their website" is fucking stupid.
Tankie, I guess.

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