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Reddit Starts One-Sided Censorship

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Posts: 33565
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:43 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Priveat owned business does privevit business things. Why do you hate the free market? :^)

r/the donald was a toxic wasteland anyway. Good riddance.


And yet Sigmarxism remains.

wha

anyway, good on reddit for flushing away toxic right wing echo chambers.

Any and all echo chambers are pure garabage cancer on our democracy no mater the alignment. Fuck echo chambers.

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Dawn Denac
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Founded: Jun 22, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dawn Denac » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:44 am

Purgatio wrote:
Dawn Denac wrote:
Okay, I can see your point and the viewpoint you yourself are coming from and speaking from this position on. I'm going to say here and now that both sides have their issues, but this sub was more than likely not for that explicit purpose of simply criticising transgender people and the language used to do such judging by the ban and the ban put on other threads. There are still ways to make an active difference, Reddit isn't the only one way that this can be discussed or to make an active difference in the world.


But that is what r/GenderCritical was about, at its core. They are radical feminists who support the abolition of gender, and believe women are oppressed for their biological sex, and should be liberated on that basis. Hence, they object to any attempts to obscure that goal, including the use of gendered pronouns divorced from biological sex, or trans-inclusive language that erases the concept of biological sex, and in particular, biological female-ness from everyday lingo. That's not hateful, and it sounds based on your post that you agree that that's not an inherently hateful, bigoted, or transphobic worldview for people to have. It's a fair, reasonable position to take, and whether you or I agree with it at the end of the day, it certainly doesn't warrant or necessitate a total ejection from Reddit and the elimination of the online platform at issue.


It took me a bit to get where you were coming from, and how the post itself was worded. I was never on r/GenderCritical, I can only take your word and the word of news outlets at face value. I can't speak for what it was like from a personal standpoint, and you know, looking back it wasn't appropriate for me to attempt to. It is a fair position to take, you're right. Reddit itself does not care however, they only care for the money. They will only ever care for money and for people to use their site. So push back and boycott their site in your own way. Make a Discord server for it, make anything for it to make a difference. I'd be willing to help you with such even, if you want to send me a TG on it and start a Discord server or whatever for people to debate this issue without the chance of the site in charge smacking it away cause it'd be profitable to do so.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Posts: 18660
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:45 am

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
And yet Sigmarxism remains.

wha

anyway, good on reddit for flushing away toxic right wing echo chambers.

Any and all echo chambers are pure garabage cancer on our democracy no mater the alignment. Fuck echo chambers.

Reddit is designed to create echo chambers.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Dawn Denac
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Founded: Jun 22, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dawn Denac » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:45 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:wha

anyway, good on reddit for flushing away toxic right wing echo chambers.

Any and all echo chambers are pure garabage cancer on our democracy no mater the alignment. Fuck echo chambers.

Reddit is designed to create echo chambers.


The Internet* :P
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Gravlen
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Gravlen » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:46 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Gravlen wrote:We are not allowed to debate the ethics of zoophilia on NSG. If you didn't know, now you know; so will you now create a thread in moderation asking for that rule to change? Since it would be pretty hypocritical if you support the right of one to speak and not all?

I criticised it pretty vocally back when that rule was put in place, I criticised the deletion of the person who was the catalyst for that rule. I'm pretty sure I was about 16 at the time though.

This isn't an issue you can play the consistency game with me and win on. I don't support the removal of any viewpoints, so long as there are people who wish to express them.

Fair enough, points for consistency.

Personally, I think there are lines. The question is just where they should be drawn - and that is something we can disagree on.
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Crockerland
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crockerland » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:46 am

Gormwood wrote:
Crockerland wrote:Because the gender-critical are not advocating for genocide or celebrating rampage killers going on mass shootings.

Just treating transpeople as mentally ill at best and legislating the attack helicopter meme as a rationale for denying gender recognition and associated rights. Denying transwomen access to abuse shelters or restrooms on the assumption that the point of them transitioning is to gain easy sexual access to women?

It's not even surprising at this point that you don't see the issue with conflating that with Stormfront posters actually murdering people and wanting a systematic, worldwide mass extermination campaign against all Jews.
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:46 am

Dawn Denac wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Reddit is designed to create echo chambers.


The Internet* :P


Tbh yes.

But geting rid of these ones is one step in the right direction. Echo chambers are trash.

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Purgatio
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Posts: 6309
Founded: May 18, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Purgatio » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:46 am

Dawn Denac wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
But that is what r/GenderCritical was about, at its core. They are radical feminists who support the abolition of gender, and believe women are oppressed for their biological sex, and should be liberated on that basis. Hence, they object to any attempts to obscure that goal, including the use of gendered pronouns divorced from biological sex, or trans-inclusive language that erases the concept of biological sex, and in particular, biological female-ness from everyday lingo. That's not hateful, and it sounds based on your post that you agree that that's not an inherently hateful, bigoted, or transphobic worldview for people to have. It's a fair, reasonable position to take, and whether you or I agree with it at the end of the day, it certainly doesn't warrant or necessitate a total ejection from Reddit and the elimination of the online platform at issue.


It took me a bit to get where you were coming from, and how the post itself was worded. I was never on r/GenderCritical, I can only take your word and the word of news outlets at face value. I can't speak for what it was like from a personal standpoint, and you know, looking back it wasn't appropriate for me to attempt to. It is a fair position to take, you're right. Reddit itself does not care however, they only care for the money. They will only ever care for money and for people to use their site. So push back and boycott their site in your own way. Make a Discord server for it, make anything for it to make a difference. I'd be willing to help you with such even, if you want to send me a TG on it and start a Discord server or whatever for people to debate this issue without the chance of the site in charge smacking it away cause it'd be profitable to do so.


No worries, and thanks for the kind offer, and for being so reasonable. The people on r/GenderCritical have migrated onto saidit, where I expect their site will prosper. All I'm trying to do is raise awareness about how unreasonable Reddit's application of its latest policy has been, and the unpredictable and capricious outcomes that policy has produced, and r/GenderCritical is just an example or illustration of that caprice.
An Introduction to Purgatio

Results
Work, Liberty, Order
Essentialism - 57%
Punitive Justice - 93%
Progressivism - 71%
Nationalism - 64%
Capitalism - 100%
Laissez-faire - 100%
Productivism - 93%
Reformism - 86%
Other Values - Monarchism

Results
Fanatic Unitary - 94%
Fanatic Authoritarian - 94%
Moderate Isolationist - 62%
Militarist - 78%
Extreme Security - 86%
Fanatic Markets - 98%
Moderate Religious - 62%
Progressive - 58%
Fanatic Assimilationist - 90%

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Major-Tom
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Posts: 12276
Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:46 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:wha

anyway, good on reddit for flushing away toxic right wing echo chambers.

Any and all echo chambers are pure garabage cancer on our democracy no mater the alignment. Fuck echo chambers.

Reddit is designed to create echo chambers.


Yuppppp and? So is NS, arguably, so are a host of other sites. People getting outraged about private social media platforms dictating how they want their site/platform to look baffles me, not only because they're within their right to, but because there are far bigger things to get pissed about on a day to day basis.
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Dawn Denac
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Founded: Jun 22, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dawn Denac » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:47 am

Ifreann wrote:
Dawn Denac wrote:
Like Bear and I have pointed out earlier in this thread: It's not. About. Politics. It's never been about politics. If Max Barry wanted to make money off this site and silence anyone he didn't agree with, what would you people do?

I would simply abolish capitalism and private property. :P
Nothing, because it is his private organization and he can do whatever he wants to do with it. Corporations like Reddit only care for the money, and they're entirely fine with you complaining about politics to keep the attention off of them and continue to use their site.

Yep. It benefits capital for us to wage our culture wars among ourselves rather than recognise that they are the problem and we could take their power away from them. Whether it's trivial nonsense like people arguing about which console is better or actually important shit like trans rights.


I'm not entirely sure on my stance regarding capitalism and private property itself, but I've been told I'm a "conservative libretarian" by people I know. Regardless, this. This. This. If we're all so fired up discussing trans rights, guess who gets to not be talked about? Reddit. The very core of why this thread was started. Look at how quickly this thread was derailed multiple times and how fiercely people argued about it. It's not about the politics, guys.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:48 am

Major-Tom wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Reddit is designed to create echo chambers.


Yuppppp and? So is NS, arguably, so are a host of other sites. People getting outraged about private social media platforms dictating how they want their site/platform to look baffles me, not only because they're within their right to, but because there are far bigger things to get pissed about on a day to day basis.

The thing is, I have a getting pissed off quota and I've had a good day.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Dawn Denac
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Founded: Jun 22, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dawn Denac » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:48 am

Purgatio wrote:
Dawn Denac wrote:
It took me a bit to get where you were coming from, and how the post itself was worded. I was never on r/GenderCritical, I can only take your word and the word of news outlets at face value. I can't speak for what it was like from a personal standpoint, and you know, looking back it wasn't appropriate for me to attempt to. It is a fair position to take, you're right. Reddit itself does not care however, they only care for the money. They will only ever care for money and for people to use their site. So push back and boycott their site in your own way. Make a Discord server for it, make anything for it to make a difference. I'd be willing to help you with such even, if you want to send me a TG on it and start a Discord server or whatever for people to debate this issue without the chance of the site in charge smacking it away cause it'd be profitable to do so.


No worries, and thanks for the kind offer, and for being so reasonable. The people on r/GenderCritical have migrated onto saidit, where I expect their site will prosper. All I'm trying to do is raise awareness about how unreasonable Reddit's application of its latest policy has been, and the unpredictable and capricious outcomes that policy has produced, and r/GenderCritical is just an example or illustration of that caprice.


Well I appreciate you for patiently making your point again and again. Continue making strides against sites like Reddit and the larger corporations. They'll lovingly make sure we kill eachother arguing over human rights if they get to have people using their site and making money.
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Purgatio
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6309
Founded: May 18, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Purgatio » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:49 am

Dawn Denac wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
No worries, and thanks for the kind offer, and for being so reasonable. The people on r/GenderCritical have migrated onto saidit, where I expect their site will prosper. All I'm trying to do is raise awareness about how unreasonable Reddit's application of its latest policy has been, and the unpredictable and capricious outcomes that policy has produced, and r/GenderCritical is just an example or illustration of that caprice.


Well I appreciate you for patiently making your point again and again. Continue making strides against sites like Reddit and the larger corporations. They'll lovingly make sure we kill eachother arguing over human rights if they get to have people using their site and making money.


Agreed, alas that's the sad reality of the world we live in :(
An Introduction to Purgatio

Results
Work, Liberty, Order
Essentialism - 57%
Punitive Justice - 93%
Progressivism - 71%
Nationalism - 64%
Capitalism - 100%
Laissez-faire - 100%
Productivism - 93%
Reformism - 86%
Other Values - Monarchism

Results
Fanatic Unitary - 94%
Fanatic Authoritarian - 94%
Moderate Isolationist - 62%
Militarist - 78%
Extreme Security - 86%
Fanatic Markets - 98%
Moderate Religious - 62%
Progressive - 58%
Fanatic Assimilationist - 90%

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Stellar Colonies
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Founded: Mar 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stellar Colonies » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:49 am

What irritates me about this new rule is how it literally says that "the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority".
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:49 am

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Dawn Denac wrote:
The Internet* :P


Tbh yes.

But geting rid of these ones is one step in the right direction. Echo chambers are trash.

So you may as well get rid of reddit. I'm subscribed to the new York giants subreddit, is that an evil anti-eagles echo chamber, or are the people there just correct?
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Dawn Denac
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Founded: Jun 22, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dawn Denac » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:50 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Tbh yes.

But geting rid of these ones is one step in the right direction. Echo chambers are trash.

So you may as well get rid of reddit. I'm subscribed to the new York giants subreddit, is that an evil anti-eagles echo chamber, or are the people there just correct?


Going to preface this with I don't watch sports so I don't know the dynamic between the two fanbases, but:

It's an evil anti-Eagles echo chamber that's plotting on the utter destruction of the Eagles!
Last edited by Dawn Denac on Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dawn Denac
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Founded: Jun 22, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dawn Denac » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:51 am

Stellar Colonies wrote:What irritates me about this new rule is how it literally says that "the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority".


Now how many people do you think read that, that currently actively use the site itself?
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Major-Tom
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Posts: 12276
Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:51 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
Yuppppp and? So is NS, arguably, so are a host of other sites. People getting outraged about private social media platforms dictating how they want their site/platform to look baffles me, not only because they're within their right to, but because there are far bigger things to get pissed about on a day to day basis.

The thing is, I have a getting pissed off quota and I've had a good day.


Pissed off quotas, I oughta try that.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am

Dawn Denac wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:So you may as well get rid of reddit. I'm subscribed to the new York giants subreddit, is that an evil anti-eagles echo chamber, or are the people there just correct?


Going to preface this with I don't watch sports so I don't know the dynamic between the two fanbases, but:

It's an evil anti-Eagles echo chamber that's plotting on the utter destruction of the New York Giants!

You don't need to destroy the new York giants, the new York giants do that for you.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am

Purgatio wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You keep trying to force an argument about gender when this is a thread about Reddit. Your "gender critical" beliefs aren't at all relevant here. And I don't mean this as a personal criticism of you, obviously none of us would be on this website if we didn't like arguing. My point is that the intellectual or philosophical validity of your beliefs is entirely beside the point. TERFs weren't allowed to have a subreddit in the first instance because your beliefs are sufficiently valid to be worthy of debate in the free marketplace of ideas, and you haven't had your subreddit deleted because Reddit thinks your beliefs are invalid. Reddit has only ever cared about making money. There was money in advertising to you. Now there's money giving you the boot. The problem for you is not, as you seem to believe, that your enemies have suborned Reddit with their duplicitous and underhanded tactics, the problem for you is capitalism. You don't get your rational online discourse because of capitalism.


Well they are relevant, because Reddit's basis for kicking r/GenderCritical off its site is violating its 'Remember the Human' policies, in other words, accusing the subreddit of dehumanising a vulnerable community, or posts that "promote hate based on identity or vulnerability", and I'm here questioning that assessment, scrutinising the view that radical feminism and women's liberation, based on sex rather than gender, is somehow an inherently hateful or bigoted thing to believe, worthy of being deemed dehumanising in the eyes of Reddit.

Reddit's lying, man, they couldn't give a single molecule of a fuck about "the Human" or whether your TERF shit is dehumanising. That's just PR. It's advertising. They want people to think they care about their users because their management thinks that that's the best way to keep the ad revenue rolling in. Remember when Reddit was all about free speech? That was advertising too. Do you believe Carlsberg when they tell you they're probably the best lager in the world? I doubt you do. Apply that same scepticism to everything Reddit says.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am

Dawn Denac wrote:
Stellar Colonies wrote:What irritates me about this new rule is how it literally says that "the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority".


Now how many people do you think read that, that currently actively use the site itself?

Most active subreddit mods probably read reddit rules updates.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Dawn Denac
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Founded: Jun 22, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dawn Denac » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Dawn Denac wrote:
Going to preface this with I don't watch sports so I don't know the dynamic between the two fanbases, but:

It's an evil anti-Eagles echo chamber that's plotting on the utter destruction of the New York Giants!

You don't need to destroy the new York giants, the new York giants do that for you.


I realized my mistake in typing NYG when regarding an anti-Eagles echo chamber.

Wheee

On a serious note, not every community on Reddit is bad. But if it greases Reddit's palms to whack a few, they'll gladly do it.
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Crockerland
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Founded: Oct 15, 2015
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crockerland » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:53 am

Gravlen wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I'm pretty sure everyone has been missing the point for the past 3 pages or so.

The argument isn't whether gender critical ideology hates trans people, that's irrelevant. The argument is whether it should be banned from online platforms.
I don't think I can argue in good faith that anything should be unbanned if it's been banned on hate grounds if I don't also argue that things I disagree with that have been banned on hate grounds should also be unbanned. Folding to mob mentality, like online platforms have recently been doing is what I'm against, I don't really support the groups that have been banned but you're pretty hypocritical if you support the right of one to speak and not all.

We are not allowed to debate the ethics of zoophilia on NSG. If you didn't know, now you know; so will you now create a thread in moderation asking for that rule to change? Since it would be pretty hypocritical if you support the right of one to speak and not all?

I doubt asking the moderators to change the rule would have much effect. But yes, that's an absurd rule to have on a forum where we discuss things like murder and genocide.
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Stellar Colonies
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Founded: Mar 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stellar Colonies » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:54 am

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Dawn Denac wrote:
The Internet* :P


Tbh yes.

But geting rid of these ones is one step in the right direction. Echo chambers are trash.

Unfortunately, banning echo chambers on Reddit will just result in them migrating to sites like Voat or those of their own creation.

For example, r/femaledatingstrategy, which specifically tries to block a certain half of the population from coming in and is undoubtedly a huge echo chamber because of that, has created a new website to move to with a sign-up process designed to more efficiently screen out male users if their subreddit is banned.

It's just creating even more isolated echo chambers.
Day 188 of 'Stay-At-Home Order'

Native of The East Pacific and Northern California


Stellar Colonies / the Confederation of Human Systems is a confederation which loosely unites a third of the Milky Way galaxy.

The WA embassy within the Confederacy is at Ida Station (243 Ida in the Sol System), a Confederate member state which joined the WA to represent Confederate interests.

An Incomplete List of Ida's Interpretations of WA Resolutions

Add 3000 years for the date I use.

If you want a mental image of me: Straight, white male.

I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.

Also, I'm diagnosed as a high-functioning autistic.

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Posts: 33565
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:54 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Tbh yes.

But geting rid of these ones is one step in the right direction. Echo chambers are trash.

So you may as well get rid of reddit. I'm subscribed to the new York giants subreddit, is that an evil anti-eagles echo chamber, or are the people there just correct?


Sport fandoms are fine and are separate things. Echo chambers turn political decisions into sport fandoms where the object is to get the other team as pissed off as possible, not to solve social and economic problems.

Nukeing reddit is not the answer, nukeing toxic sub reddits where political echo chambers form is.

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