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Russia tried to murder US soldiers and Trump Ignored It

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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:41 pm

One part that doesn't make sense to me, though, is why would Russia offer to pay Taliban-linked fighters to kill British and American soldiers when that's what they're doing already? It's not like they need any additional motivation to do so...

In any case, it's time to get the hell out of that shithole and stop wasting any effort on it. Completely pointless and nothing more than a multi-generational money pit that will never benefit the US in any way.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:44 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I want more evidence and a better source that isn't "anonymous intelligence officials."


Maybe you should start by explaining what makes the evidence presented unacceptable.

Anonymous intelligence officials were the same source cited for there being WMDs in Iraq, of which there were none.

I want another source that isn't "anonymous intelligence officials."
Last edited by Sundiata on Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:45 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Maybe you should start by explaining what makes the evidence presented unacceptable.

Anonymous intelligence officials were the same source cited for there being WMDs in Iraq, of which there were none.

I want another source that isn't "anonymous intelligence officials."


Actually there were WMDs in Iraq. We know that for certain since the USA gave them to them.
What Iraq did with them is a scary question.
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South Odreria 2
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Postby South Odreria 2 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:48 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Anonymous intelligence officials were the same source cited for there being WMDs in Iraq, of which there were none.

I want another source that isn't "anonymous intelligence officials."


Actually there were WMDs in Iraq. We know that for certain since the USA gave them to them.
What Iraq did with them is a scary question.

Saddam had all of them destroyed in compliance with the UN while deceiving his military into thinking that he was only destroying some of them.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:39 am

South Odreria 2 wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Actually there were WMDs in Iraq. We know that for certain since the USA gave them to them.
What Iraq did with them is a scary question.

Saddam had all of them destroyed in compliance with the UN while deceiving his military into thinking that he was only destroying some of them.

The Alma Mater wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Anonymous intelligence officials were the same source cited for there being WMDs in Iraq, of which there were none.

I want another source that isn't "anonymous intelligence officials."


Actually there were WMDs in Iraq. We know that for certain since the USA gave them to them.
What Iraq did with them is a scary question.


If the intelligence was credible that there were WMDs in Iraq, then the Iraq war was just.

My opinion is changed.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:55 am

Sundiata wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Maybe you should start by explaining what makes the evidence presented unacceptable.

Anonymous intelligence officials were the same source cited for there being WMDs in Iraq, of which there were none.

I want another source that isn't "anonymous intelligence officials."


"But Iraq..."

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:09 am

Sundiata wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Maybe you should start by explaining what makes the evidence presented unacceptable.

Anonymous intelligence officials were the same source cited for there being WMDs in Iraq, of which there were none.

I want another source that isn't "anonymous intelligence officials."


A better source before urging the government to war? Certainly.

A better source to say "yeah, they probably did that" not so much.

It's basically plausible with no evidence at all, so tell us why you reject the evidence available?
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Crockerland
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Postby Crockerland » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:33 am

That's crazy, Trump should retaliate against those terrorists so that the Democrats can call him a violent warmonger and try to pass a war powers resolution to censure him for defending the country.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:45 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Anonymous intelligence officials were the same source cited for there being WMDs in Iraq, of which there were none.

I want another source that isn't "anonymous intelligence officials."


A better source before urging the government to war? Certainly.

A better source to say "yeah, they probably did that" not so much.

It's basically plausible with no evidence at all, so tell us why you reject the evidence available?

Because it wouldn't be the first time that the American public has been provided incomplete information.
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:47 am

Crockerland wrote:That's crazy, Trump should retaliate against those terrorists so that the Democrats can call him a violent warmonger and try to pass a war powers resolution to censure him for defending the country.


The only cross-sectional appeal Trump still has, is that he hasn't started a war. His other campaign-able achievements are the Wall (or virtual wall: he has cut immigration legal and illegal) and being a great entertainer.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:58 am

Sundiata wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
A better source before urging the government to war? Certainly.

A better source to say "yeah, they probably did that" not so much.

It's basically plausible with no evidence at all, so tell us why you reject the evidence available?

Because it wouldn't be the first time that the American public has been provided incomplete information.


"Lie to me once, I'll never believe you again."

That's a childish attitude, and one you can't afford to take towards a big source of information.

Intelligence does sometimes get corrupted on its way to the public. And of course most intelligence never even gets to the public. But you can't afford to dismiss it all, or even to dismiss that which doesn't suit your political beliefs. Doing so is nothing but willful ignorance.

Personally I'm putting about 20% weight on this information. If it came through government, I'd put about 50% weight. That big lie nearly twenty years ago has left its mark, but it has not destroyed the reputation of the US government with me.
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Austerlitsch
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Postby Austerlitsch » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:09 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Because it wouldn't be the first time that the American public has been provided incomplete information.


"Lie to me once, I'll never believe you again."

That's a childish attitude, and one you can't afford to take towards a big source of information.

Intelligence does sometimes get corrupted on its way to the public. And of course most intelligence never even gets to the public. But you can't afford to dismiss it all, or even to dismiss that which doesn't suit your political beliefs. Doing so is nothing but willful ignorance.

Personally I'm putting about 20% weight on this information. If it came through government, I'd put about 50% weight. That big lie nearly twenty years ago has left its mark, but it has not destroyed the reputation of the US government with me.


After 3 1/2 years of lies and "anonymous sources", I think it is justified that trust in the media is low. As another poster stated, why would you have to pay people who from an ideological stand point are already happy to kill American and British soldiers? It makes no sense and is just another attempt to revive the failed Russia narrative.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:10 am

Austerlitsch wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
"Lie to me once, I'll never believe you again."

That's a childish attitude, and one you can't afford to take towards a big source of information.

Intelligence does sometimes get corrupted on its way to the public. And of course most intelligence never even gets to the public. But you can't afford to dismiss it all, or even to dismiss that which doesn't suit your political beliefs. Doing so is nothing but willful ignorance.

Personally I'm putting about 20% weight on this information. If it came through government, I'd put about 50% weight. That big lie nearly twenty years ago has left its mark, but it has not destroyed the reputation of the US government with me.


After 3 1/2 years of lies and "anonymous sources", I think it is justified that trust in the media is low. As another poster stated, why would you have to pay people who from an ideological stand point are already happy to kill American and British soldiers? It makes no sense and is just another attempt to revive the failed Russia narrative.


Failed so hard that people went to jail for collusion with Russia that you claim never happened.
Last edited by Vassenor on Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:32 am

Austerlitsch wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
"Lie to me once, I'll never believe you again."

That's a childish attitude, and one you can't afford to take towards a big source of information.

Intelligence does sometimes get corrupted on its way to the public. And of course most intelligence never even gets to the public. But you can't afford to dismiss it all, or even to dismiss that which doesn't suit your political beliefs. Doing so is nothing but willful ignorance.

Personally I'm putting about 20% weight on this information. If it came through government, I'd put about 50% weight. That big lie nearly twenty years ago has left its mark, but it has not destroyed the reputation of the US government with me.


After 3 1/2 years of lies and "anonymous sources", I think it is justified that trust in the media is low. As another poster stated, why would you have to pay people who from an ideological stand point are already happy to kill American and British soldiers? It makes no sense and is just another attempt to revive the failed Russia narrative.


If you're going to take the credibility high ground against the media, you'd do well not to end with "failed Russia narrative"
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:34 am

Vassenor wrote:
Austerlitsch wrote:
After 3 1/2 years of lies and "anonymous sources", I think it is justified that trust in the media is low. As another poster stated, why would you have to pay people who from an ideological stand point are already happy to kill American and British soldiers? It makes no sense and is just another attempt to revive the failed Russia narrative.


Failed so hard that people went to jail for collusion with Russia that you claim never happened.


Yeah. If the Trumpsters really believed Russia did no wrong, why aren't they demanding the release of the Russian agents?

They're so not doing that, that they don't even know their names!
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Austerlitsch
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Postby Austerlitsch » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:38 am

Vassenor wrote:
Austerlitsch wrote:
After 3 1/2 years of lies and "anonymous sources", I think it is justified that trust in the media is low. As another poster stated, why would you have to pay people who from an ideological stand point are already happy to kill American and British soldiers? It makes no sense and is just another attempt to revive the failed Russia narrative.


Failed so hard that people went to jail for collusion with Russia that you claim never happened.


Failed so hard it made Soviet show trials look like an episode of Judge Judy.

You mean people going to jail for collusion like Lt. Gen. Flynn who was told he wouldn't need an attorney despite being secretly questioned by the FBI? Even more so that the agents who questioned him didn't think he was lying, but this evidence was withheld and he was charged with perjury. Thank God the DOJ is trying get his case dropped. Additionally, other than Lt. Gen. Flynn, the other people charged in the Mueller Report were for financial violations.

Also what about Democrat collusion with foreign powers? Clinton paid a British spy, to get information from the big bad Russia to get dirt on Trump and create a fake dossier. And yes it is fake, because under oath, said spy, Christopher, Steele, admitted everything in the dossier was not verified or verifiable. Yet it was that fake dossier that started this mess to begin with. Nothing wrong with that I take it? And lets not get started with Biden and his "well of a b*tch, he was fired" when talking about his interference in Ukrainian business and investigations.

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:58 am

Austerlitsch wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Failed so hard that people went to jail for collusion with Russia that you claim never happened.


Failed so hard it made Soviet show trials look like an episode of Judge Judy.


Do you remember Paul Manafort? Does seven years jail jog your memory?

It's shameful that you won't stand up for the footsoldiers who fell protecting your precious Trump. You'll just say "show trial" but you won't call for the reversal of the convictions. Nah, don't want to go digging up bodies do you?
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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:02 am

Sundiata wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Maybe you should start by explaining what makes the evidence presented unacceptable.

Anonymous intelligence officials were the same source cited for there being WMDs in Iraq, of which there were none.

I want another source that isn't "anonymous intelligence officials."

You do realize that the so called "WMD's" in Iraq was a pretext so Bush could invade right? The county was whipped up into such a frenzy, over terrorism that they would believe anything. Last time I checked, nobody wants war with Russia.

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Austerlitsch
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Postby Austerlitsch » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:08 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Austerlitsch wrote:
Failed so hard it made Soviet show trials look like an episode of Judge Judy.


Do you remember Paul Manafort? Does seven years jail jog your memory?

It's shameful that you won't stand up for the footsoldiers who fell protecting your precious Trump. You'll just say "show trial" but you won't call for the reversal of the convictions. Nah, don't want to go digging up bodies do you?


Dodging my question about Democrat foreign collusion I see. Not that I expected less, and since you are going for a personal attack rather than refuting what I said I take it I won the argument.

I also enjoy that you make a personal attack on me based on nothing other than my skepticism about a "leak", that points to Russia being the supreme evil of the world for the 1000th time. What happened about Obama's precious "Russian Reset Button"? Or how the 1960s wanted Romney's Cold War policies back. I thought things were peachy now?

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:13 am

Austerlitsch wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Do you remember Paul Manafort? Does seven years jail jog your memory?

It's shameful that you won't stand up for the footsoldiers who fell protecting your precious Trump. You'll just say "show trial" but you won't call for the reversal of the convictions. Nah, don't want to go digging up bodies do you?


Dodging my question about Democrat foreign collusion I see.


Your post was directed to Vassenor, so I feel no obligation to answer questions in it.

Not that I expected less, and since you are going for a personal attack rather than refuting what I said I take it I won the argument.

I also enjoy that you make a personal attack on me based on nothing other than my skepticism about a "leak", that points to Russia being the supreme evil of the world for the 1000th time. What happened about Obama's precious "Russian Reset Button"? Or how the 1960s wanted Romney's Cold War policies back. I thought things were peachy now?


Whatever. You're just spouting partisan talking points and heading off topic fast.

People were convicted over the "Russia hoax" and if you really thought it was a hoax you'd be calling for their release. Not desperately trying to change the subject.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:14 am

Austerlitsch wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Failed so hard that people went to jail for collusion with Russia that you claim never happened.


Failed so hard it made Soviet show trials look like an episode of Judge Judy.

You mean people going to jail for collusion like Lt. Gen. Flynn who was told he wouldn't need an attorney despite being secretly questioned by the FBI? Even more so that the agents who questioned him didn't think he was lying, but this evidence was withheld and he was charged with perjury. Thank God the DOJ is trying get his case dropped. Additionally, other than Lt. Gen. Flynn, the other people charged in the Mueller Report were for financial violations.

Also what about Democrat collusion with foreign powers? Clinton paid a British spy, to get information from the big bad Russia to get dirt on Trump and create a fake dossier. And yes it is fake, because under oath, said spy, Christopher, Steele, admitted everything in the dossier was not verified or verifiable. Yet it was that fake dossier that started this mess to begin with. Nothing wrong with that I take it? And lets not get started with Biden and his "well of a b*tch, he was fired" when talking about his interference in Ukrainian business and investigations.


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Austerlitsch
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Postby Austerlitsch » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:16 am

Vassenor wrote:
Austerlitsch wrote:
Failed so hard it made Soviet show trials look like an episode of Judge Judy.

You mean people going to jail for collusion like Lt. Gen. Flynn who was told he wouldn't need an attorney despite being secretly questioned by the FBI? Even more so that the agents who questioned him didn't think he was lying, but this evidence was withheld and he was charged with perjury. Thank God the DOJ is trying get his case dropped. Additionally, other than Lt. Gen. Flynn, the other people charged in the Mueller Report were for financial violations.

Also what about Democrat collusion with foreign powers? Clinton paid a British spy, to get information from the big bad Russia to get dirt on Trump and create a fake dossier. And yes it is fake, because under oath, said spy, Christopher, Steele, admitted everything in the dossier was not verified or verifiable. Yet it was that fake dossier that started this mess to begin with. Nothing wrong with that I take it? And lets not get started with Biden and his "well of a b*tch, he was fired" when talking about his interference in Ukrainian business and investigations.


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Everybody drink.


Do you not agree with equal enforcement of the law? Or only when it is expedient for a talking point?

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:17 am

Austerlitsch wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
#ButHillary

Everybody drink.


Do you not agree with equal enforcement of the law? Or only when it is expedient for a talking point?


I'm not the one desperately searching for whataboutisms.
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Austerlitsch
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Postby Austerlitsch » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:48 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:People were convicted over the "Russia hoax" and if you really thought it was a hoax you'd be calling for their release. Not desperately trying to change the subject.


Umm, did you miss the part where I said I was happy the DOJ was trying to get Flynn's case dropped?

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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:04 am

Austerlitsch wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:People were convicted over the "Russia hoax" and if you really thought it was a hoax you'd be calling for their release. Not desperately trying to change the subject.


Umm, did you miss the part where I said I was happy the DOJ was trying to get Flynn's case dropped?

So what about Manafort and Rudy's two mooks?
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