NationStates

Tolopel wrote:Kosovo is NOT Serbia.

Purpelia wrote:

Vassenor wrote:And what NATO air-dropped weapons use DU penetrators? Last time I checked it was only really used for tank shells and aircraft cannon rounds intended for tank hunting.

Also general munitions really. You'd be surprised. Anything shot at a bunker, tank, mobile AA or any other military target harder than a soft top truck is likely to have DU in it.

For the record:



Cited Source: Depleted Uranium in Serbia and Montenegro: Post-Conflict Environmental Assessment in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

As much as I would like to point the obvious flaw in citing a source with .us in the name as proof that the US did no wrong there is also the fact that realistically unless you get DU fragments lodging inside your body (which might present higher concerns to your health than cancer or heavy metal toxicity 20 years from now) or they end up in the water supply or something DU isn't really that toxic. Like it's nasty if you are say in a tank that's set on fire and you breathe it in or if it lands in a water reservoir or something. If you generally ingest it or inject it or get it into your body or if you like carry it in your pocket. But ultimately it's just a slightly radioactive toxic heavy metal. The fact it's called Uranium does not mean it's going to turn everything it touches into Chernobyl. And like if a DU bomb explodes in your back yard nobody is going to be poisoned the next village over. And thus conversely not finding any evidence of mass toxicity isn't really proof of anything.

Purpelia wrote:

Major-Tom wrote:Are you fucking kidding? What happened, pray tell, the last time we tried to split the Balkan states into entities where it's inhabitants hated one another? Did that go well? I can't seem to recall...

To be fair there probably is a case to be made for splitting it up along ethnic lines as opposed to leaving it a mixed ethnicity mess like bosnia. Assuming such a split could be made both sides would probably be better off for it. Not that I know many details about the issue. But given the regions history I'd say it's likely.

Edit: I'm sure the charges against the Kosovoan President are legitimate, just as they've been legitimate for every single fucking Balkan leader that ever served during the armed conflicts of the 1990s. That alone doesn't undermine Kosovo's rightful sovereignty and right to remain independent from Serbia.

I have no real stake in this game but I must say that I feel somewhat uneasy about the prospect of supporting a nation whose independence is built on a foundation of war crimes. So yes, I would actually say that should these allegations be proven it somewhat does.

MGTOWia wrote:Kosovo, culturally important to Serbs, now settled primarily by Albanian Muslims: It must be independent!

Israel, culturally important to Arabs, now settled primarily by Israeli Jews: IT’S OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN LAND!

Hypocrites.

Purpelia wrote:I have no real stake in this game but I must say that I feel somewhat uneasy about the prospect of supporting a nation whose independence is built on a foundation of war crimes. So yes, I would actually say that should these allegations be proven it somewhat does.

MGTOWia wrote:Kosovo, culturally important to Serbs, now settled primarily by Albanian Muslims: It must be independent!

Israel, culturally important to Arabs, now settled primarily by Israeli Jews: IT’S OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN LAND!

Hypocrites.

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:

Tolopel wrote:Kosovo is NOT Serbia.

Yes, it belongs to the republic of yugoslavia.

Kubra wrote:Hottest take: Serbia is Kosovo, and Kosovo should annex it.

Vassenor wrote:So a Swiss source saying there was no environmental damage is untrustworthy? Also this wouldn't have come up had the poster in question not asserted that the use of DU made the bombing campaign extra heinous.

Gravlen wrote:Your choices are to support a nation whose leaders may have built their independence on a foundation of war crimes, or a nation which is guilty of war crimes. Choose wisely.

Rojava Free State wrote:

MGTOWia wrote:Kosovo, culturally important to Serbs, now settled primarily by Albanian Muslims: It must be independent!

Israel, culturally important to Arabs, now settled primarily by Israeli Jews: IT’S OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN LAND!

Hypocrites.

Except there were always Albanians in Kosovo outside the alternate universe of bullshit mountain. But lemme guess, you think Kosovo is basically all the stuff you saw in the film Taken.

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:

Tolopel wrote:Kosovo is NOT Serbia.

Yes, it belongs to the republic of yugoslavia.

MGTOWia wrote:

Rojava Free State wrote:
Except there were always Albanians in Kosovo outside the alternate universe of bullshit mountain. But lemme guess, you think Kosovo is basically all the stuff you saw in the film Taken.

Except that apparently you don't know about The Alexiad of Anna Comnena, in which the author notes the presence of Serbs in the area prior to the 12th century. Or about the Battle of Kosovo, 1389, which Serbs consider a turning point in their history. Or about the region being the center of the medieval Serbian state and the seat of the Serbian Orthodox Church from the 14th century on.

But lemme guess, you think commenting on topics you lack knowledge of is no problem.

MGTOWia wrote:Kosovo, culturally important to Serbs, now settled primarily by Albanian Muslims: It must be independent!

Israel, culturally important to Arabs, now settled primarily by Israeli Jews: IT’S OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN LAND!

Hypocrites.

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:

Tolopel wrote:Kosovo is NOT Serbia.

Yes, it belongs to the republic of yugoslavia.

In October 1912 the First Balkan War began and some four hundred years of Ottoman rule in Albania ended (Eastern Europe and the Commonwealth of Independent States 1997 1996, 109). An independent state of Albania was declared on 28 November 1912 and was recognized in May 1913 by the Treaty of London which ended the First Balkan War (ibid., 109, 111; Yugoslavia: A Country Study 1992, 27). However, the subsequent August 1913 Bucharest Treaty redrew Albania's boundaries, leaving more than 50 per cent of all Albanians, mostly those living in Kosovo and Macedonia, outside its boundaries (Albania: A Country Study 1994, 21-22; Larrabee 1994, 296). Kosovo was ceded to Serbia at this time[2]2 (ibid.; Hall 1994, 200). In 1918, following the end of World War I, all Albanian-language schools in Kosovo, Macedonia and Montenegro were closed and the region's 400,000 ethnic Albanians were denied "nation status" (History Today 1 Dec. 1991; Hall 1994, 201; The Financial Times 29 June 1989). According to Hall.

Rojava Free State wrote:

In October 1912 the First Balkan War began and some four hundred years of Ottoman rule in Albania ended (Eastern Europe and the Commonwealth of Independent States 1997 1996, 109). An independent state of Albania was declared on 28 November 1912 and was recognized in May 1913 by the Treaty of London which ended the First Balkan War (ibid., 109, 111; Yugoslavia: A Country Study 1992, 27). However, the subsequent August 1913 Bucharest Treaty redrew Albania's boundaries, leaving more than 50 per cent of all Albanians, mostly those living in Kosovo and Macedonia, outside its boundaries (Albania: A Country Study 1994, 21-22; Larrabee 1994, 296). Kosovo was ceded to Serbia at this time[2]2 (ibid.; Hall 1994, 200). In 1918, following the end of World War I, all Albanian-language schools in Kosovo, Macedonia and Montenegro were closed and the region's 400,000 ethnic Albanians were denied "nation status" (History Today 1 Dec. 1991; Hall 1994, 201; The Financial Times 29 June 1989). According to Hall.

But Kosovo should be part of Serbia, despite being majority Albanian for quite a long time? https://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6a80c0.html

Purpelia wrote:

Vassenor wrote:So a Swiss source saying there was no environmental damage is untrustworthy? Also this wouldn't have come up had the poster in question not asserted that the use of DU made the bombing campaign extra heinous.

As I explained, the issue is not if there was any environmental damage as that wouldn't happen anyway because DU weapons don't work that way unless people literally lick bomb fragments or you deliberately shoot one off into a well or something.

Gravlen wrote:Your choices are to support a nation whose leaders may have built their independence on a foundation of war crimes, or a nation which is guilty of war crimes. Choose wisely.

Or you know, neither. Honestly that whole region was last stable back when Communist Yugoslavia was a thing.

MGTOWia wrote:

Rojava Free State wrote:
Except there were always Albanians in Kosovo outside the alternate universe of bullshit mountain. But lemme guess, you think Kosovo is basically all the stuff you saw in the film Taken.

Except that apparently you don't know about The Alexiad of Anna Comnena, in which the author notes the presence of Serbs in the area prior to the 12th century. Or about the Battle of Kosovo, 1389, which Serbs consider a turning point in their history. Or about the region being the center of the medieval Serbian state and the seat of the Serbian Orthodox Church from the 14th century on.

But lemme guess, you think commenting on topics you lack knowledge of is no problem.

The Islands of Versilia wrote:Kosovo isn’t lawfully owned nor controlled Serbian territory, and since the country fought for its own independence, Serbia has lost Kosovar consent to govern Kosovo. If Serbia truly wanted to govern Kosovo as its own once more, it’ll have to give up the Serbocentric mindset and start being much more cosmopolitan and tolerant of non-Serbs and their rights.

The Islands of Versilia wrote:That being said, I would not reject a redrawing of Balkan borders along ethnocultural and religious lines. It would ideally bring some degree of stability in the Powderkeg of Europe. If not that, then population exchanges are the only way in my opinion.

Goldeneye Regi0n wrote:Well, isn’t this controversial, I (disregarding politics, to a point) believe that there isn’t a reason that, if Kosovo can sustain itself as a nation, it should be. Then again I’m English and a firm believer in Scottish independence and (while I’m at it) Irish unification. I’m firmly of the opinion in the idea of smaller states held together in miniture UNs (I do love being controversial!)

Also, can we note that “protecting a minority” was Mr Hilters excuse for annexing the Sudentenland in Czechoslovakia

Kubra wrote:Hottest take: Serbia is Kosovo, and Kosovo should annex it.