Kosovo president indicted as war criminal, resists

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

Kosovo is NOT Serbia.

Yes, it belongs to the republic of yugoslavia.

[MGTOWia]

Kosovo, culturally important to Serbs, now settled primarily by Albanian Muslims: It must be independent!

Israel, culturally important to Arabs, now settled primarily by Israeli Jews: IT’S OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN LAND!

Hypocrites.

[Vassenor]

And what NATO air-dropped weapons use DU penetrators? Last time I checked it was only really used for tank shells and aircraft cannon rounds intended for tank hunting.

Also general munitions really. You'd be surprised. Anything shot at a bunker, tank, mobile AA or any other military target harder than a soft top truck is likely to have DU in it.

For the record:



Cited Source: Depleted Uranium in Serbia and Montenegro: Post-Conflict Environmental Assessment in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

As much as I would like to point the obvious flaw in citing a source with .us in the name as proof that the US did no wrong there is also the fact that realistically unless you get DU fragments lodging inside your body (which might present higher concerns to your health than cancer or heavy metal toxicity 20 years from now) or they end up in the water supply or something DU isn't really that toxic. Like it's nasty if you are say in a tank that's set on fire and you breathe it in or if it lands in a water reservoir or something. If you generally ingest it or inject it or get it into your body or if you like carry it in your pocket. But ultimately it's just a slightly radioactive toxic heavy metal. The fact it's called Uranium does not mean it's going to turn everything it touches into Chernobyl. And like if a DU bomb explodes in your back yard nobody is going to be poisoned the next village over. And thus conversely not finding any evidence of mass toxicity isn't really proof of anything.

So a Swiss source saying there was no environmental damage is untrustworthy? Also this wouldn't have come up had the poster in question not asserted that the use of DU made the bombing campaign extra heinous.

[Major-Tom]

Are you fucking kidding? What happened, pray tell, the last time we tried to split the Balkan states into entities where it's inhabitants hated one another? Did that go well? I can't seem to recall...

To be fair there probably is a case to be made for splitting it up along ethnic lines as opposed to leaving it a mixed ethnicity mess like bosnia. Assuming such a split could be made both sides would probably be better off for it. Not that I know many details about the issue. But given the regions history I'd say it's likely.

Edit: I'm sure the charges against the Kosovoan President are legitimate, just as they've been legitimate for every single fucking Balkan leader that ever served during the armed conflicts of the 1990s. That alone doesn't undermine Kosovo's rightful sovereignty and right to remain independent from Serbia.

I have no real stake in this game but I must say that I feel somewhat uneasy about the prospect of supporting a nation whose independence is built on a foundation of war crimes. So yes, I would actually say that should these allegations be proven it somewhat does.

I'll even concede that from what I know about Kosovo, it's demographics are so overwhelmingly Muslim and Non-Serb, that any sort of partition would just be way messier than the situation now.

In addition, just about every post-Yugoslav state is built on war crimes. Croatia, for instance, had Tudman as it's first leader post-Yugoslav wars, and he was a prolific war criminal as well. And that's just one example, and I doubt anybody would question Croatia's sovereignty. The point I'm trying to make is that if we want lasting peace in that otherwise volatile region, the best course of action is to let the citizenry of each respective country decide their sovereignty and their future for themselves. I in no way condone the incumbent President of Kosovo, but that also doesn't mean I would want to wreck the regional stability by trying to re-negotiate Kosovo's land, it's institutional structures, etc etc.

Kosovo, culturally important to Serbs, now settled primarily by Albanian Muslims: It must be independent!

Israel, culturally important to Arabs, now settled primarily by Israeli Jews: IT’S OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN LAND!

Hypocrites.

I have the feeling that a lot of Pro-Kosovo folk, myself included, are also quite Pro-Israel.

[Gravlen]

I have no real stake in this game but I must say that I feel somewhat uneasy about the prospect of supporting a nation whose independence is built on a foundation of war crimes. So yes, I would actually say that should these allegations be proven it somewhat does.

Your choices are to support a nation whose leaders may have built their independence on a foundation of war crimes, or a nation which is guilty of war crimes. Choose wisely.

[Rojava Free State]

Kosovo, culturally important to Serbs, now settled primarily by Albanian Muslims: It must be independent!

Israel, culturally important to Arabs, now settled primarily by Israeli Jews: IT’S OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN LAND!

Hypocrites.

Except there were always Albanians in Kosovo outside the alternate universe of bullshit mountain. But lemme guess, you think Kosovo is basically all the stuff you saw in the film Taken.

[Rojava Free State]

Kosovo is NOT Serbia.

Yes, it belongs to the republic of yugoslavia.

Which currently is gone.

[Kubra]

Hottest take: Serbia is Kosovo, and Kosovo should annex it.

[Rojava Free State]

Hottest take: Serbia is Kosovo, and Kosovo should annex it.

An army of Big Albanians invading by land, air and sea screaming the battle cry of "Kosovo Serbia is take ours for."

[Purpelia]

So a Swiss source saying there was no environmental damage is untrustworthy? Also this wouldn't have come up had the poster in question not asserted that the use of DU made the bombing campaign extra heinous.

As I explained, the issue is not if there was any environmental damage as that wouldn't happen anyway because DU weapons don't work that way unless people literally lick bomb fragments or you deliberately shoot one off into a well or something.

Your choices are to support a nation whose leaders may have built their independence on a foundation of war crimes, or a nation which is guilty of war crimes. Choose wisely.

Or you know, neither. Honestly that whole region was last stable back when Communist Yugoslavia was a thing.

[MGTOWia]

Kosovo, culturally important to Serbs, now settled primarily by Albanian Muslims: It must be independent!

Israel, culturally important to Arabs, now settled primarily by Israeli Jews: IT’S OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN LAND!

Hypocrites.

Except there were always Albanians in Kosovo outside the alternate universe of bullshit mountain. But lemme guess, you think Kosovo is basically all the stuff you saw in the film Taken.

Except that apparently you don't know about The Alexiad of Anna Comnena, in which the author notes the presence of Serbs in the area prior to the 12th century. Or about the Battle of Kosovo, 1389, which Serbs consider a turning point in their history. Or about the region being the center of the medieval Serbian state and the seat of the Serbian Orthodox Church from the 14th century on.

But lemme guess, you think commenting on topics you lack knowledge of is no problem.

[Stellar Colonies]

Kosovo is NOT Serbia.

Yes, it belongs to the republic of yugoslavia.

Yugoslavia died in the 90's.

It does not exist anymore.

[Rojava Free State]

Except there were always Albanians in Kosovo outside the alternate universe of bullshit mountain. But lemme guess, you think Kosovo is basically all the stuff you saw in the film Taken.

Except that apparently you don't know about The Alexiad of Anna Comnena, in which the author notes the presence of Serbs in the area prior to the 12th century. Or about the Battle of Kosovo, 1389, which Serbs consider a turning point in their history. Or about the region being the center of the medieval Serbian state and the seat of the Serbian Orthodox Church from the 14th century on.

But lemme guess, you think commenting on topics you lack knowledge of is no problem.

Wow a minority serb presence? Oh boy better give it to serbia. I mean how many serbs are there anyways? In what clownworld do you reside where a place that is a majority Albanian should be part of Serbia?

While we're at it let's give America to the Chinese since we have had Chinese people here in some quantity since the 1800s. Better pack your bags friendo.

Kosovo, culturally important to Serbs, now settled primarily by Albanian Muslims: It must be independent!

Israel, culturally important to Arabs, now settled primarily by Israeli Jews: IT’S OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN LAND!

Hypocrites.

Btw that link between Palestine and Kosovo is awfully strange. And the link between Albanian and muslim despite there being many non Muslim albanians. Its almost like you have a bit of an Islamophobia problem. But ill let you make it clear where you stand, I'm just pointing out how suspect this is.

[Loben The 2nd]

This could’ve been avoided had have been avoided had our leaders not be obsessed with wanting to barge in on the internal affairs of other countries.

[Loben The 2nd]

Kosovo is NOT Serbia.

Yes, it belongs to the republic of yugoslavia.

There is no republic of Yugoslavia.

[Rojava Free State]

In October 1912 the First Balkan War began and some four hundred years of Ottoman rule in Albania ended (Eastern Europe and the Commonwealth of Independent States 1997 1996, 109). An independent state of Albania was declared on 28 November 1912 and was recognized in May 1913 by the Treaty of London which ended the First Balkan War (ibid., 109, 111; Yugoslavia: A Country Study 1992, 27). However, the subsequent August 1913 Bucharest Treaty redrew Albania's boundaries, leaving more than 50 per cent of all Albanians, mostly those living in Kosovo and Macedonia, outside its boundaries (Albania: A Country Study 1994, 21-22; Larrabee 1994, 296). Kosovo was ceded to Serbia at this time[2]2 (ibid.; Hall 1994, 200). In 1918, following the end of World War I, all Albanian-language schools in Kosovo, Macedonia and Montenegro were closed and the region's 400,000 ethnic Albanians were denied "nation status" (History Today 1 Dec. 1991; Hall 1994, 201; The Financial Times 29 June 1989). According to Hall.

But Kosovo should be part of Serbia, despite being majority Albanian for quite a long time? https://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6a80c0.html

[Loben The 2nd]

In October 1912 the First Balkan War began and some four hundred years of Ottoman rule in Albania ended (Eastern Europe and the Commonwealth of Independent States 1997 1996, 109). An independent state of Albania was declared on 28 November 1912 and was recognized in May 1913 by the Treaty of London which ended the First Balkan War (ibid., 109, 111; Yugoslavia: A Country Study 1992, 27). However, the subsequent August 1913 Bucharest Treaty redrew Albania's boundaries, leaving more than 50 per cent of all Albanians, mostly those living in Kosovo and Macedonia, outside its boundaries (Albania: A Country Study 1994, 21-22; Larrabee 1994, 296). Kosovo was ceded to Serbia at this time[2]2 (ibid.; Hall 1994, 200). In 1918, following the end of World War I, all Albanian-language schools in Kosovo, Macedonia and Montenegro were closed and the region's 400,000 ethnic Albanians were denied "nation status" (History Today 1 Dec. 1991; Hall 1994, 201; The Financial Times 29 June 1989). According to Hall.

But Kosovo should be part of Serbia, despite being majority Albanian for quite a long time? https://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6a80c0.html

They should’ve protested louder, heard that’s more effective then the gun.

Waitaminute.

[Rusozak]

I miss Tito...

[The Islands of Versilia]

Kosovo isn’t lawfully owned nor controlled Serbian territory, and since the country fought for its own independence, Serbia has lost Kosovar consent to govern Kosovo. If Serbia truly wanted to govern Kosovo as its own once more, it’ll have to give up the Serbocentric mindset and start being much more cosmopolitan and tolerant of non-Serbs and their rights.

That being said, I would not reject a redrawing of Balkan borders along ethnocultural and religious lines. It would ideally bring some degree of stability in the Powderkeg of Europe. If not that, then population exchanges are the only way in my opinion.

Edit: Oh, I should probably mention that I applaud the president’s integrity. Even if he’s found guilty, at least he isn’t cowering away from prosecution.

[Goldeneye Regi0n]

Well, isn’t this controversial, I (disregarding politics, to a point) believe that there isn’t a reason that, if Kosovo can sustain itself as a nation, it should be. Then again I’m English and a firm believer in Scottish independence and (while I’m at it) Irish unification. I’m firmly of the opinion in the idea of smaller states held together in miniture UNs (I do love being controversial!)

Also, can we note that “protecting a minority” was Mr Hilters excuse for annexing the Sudentenland in Czechoslovakia

[Vivolkha]

So a Swiss source saying there was no environmental damage is untrustworthy? Also this wouldn't have come up had the poster in question not asserted that the use of DU made the bombing campaign extra heinous.

As I explained, the issue is not if there was any environmental damage as that wouldn't happen anyway because DU weapons don't work that way unless people literally lick bomb fragments or you deliberately shoot one off into a well or something.

Your choices are to support a nation whose leaders may have built their independence on a foundation of war crimes, or a nation which is guilty of war crimes. Choose wisely.

Or you know, neither. Honestly that whole region was last stable back when Communist Yugoslavia was a thing.

It was stability based on repression (and a questionably functioning economy). Was it worth it?

Except there were always Albanians in Kosovo outside the alternate universe of bullshit mountain. But lemme guess, you think Kosovo is basically all the stuff you saw in the film Taken.

Except that apparently you don't know about The Alexiad of Anna Comnena, in which the author notes the presence of Serbs in the area prior to the 12th century. Or about the Battle of Kosovo, 1389, which Serbs consider a turning point in their history. Or about the region being the center of the medieval Serbian state and the seat of the Serbian Orthodox Church from the 14th century on.

But lemme guess, you think commenting on topics you lack knowledge of is no problem.

Give all of America to Native Americans, they were there first.

Kosovo isn’t lawfully owned nor controlled Serbian territory, and since the country fought for its own independence, Serbia has lost Kosovar consent to govern Kosovo. If Serbia truly wanted to govern Kosovo as its own once more, it’ll have to give up the Serbocentric mindset and start being much more cosmopolitan and tolerant of non-Serbs and their rights.

This. But then again, ethnonationalism is not exclusively Serb and it is a problem in the entire Balkan area...

That being said, I would not reject a redrawing of Balkan borders along ethnocultural and religious lines. It would ideally bring some degree of stability in the Powderkeg of Europe. If not that, then population exchanges are the only way in my opinion.

...which is the reason I think this wouldn't work out.

Well, isn’t this controversial, I (disregarding politics, to a point) believe that there isn’t a reason that, if Kosovo can sustain itself as a nation, it should be. Then again I’m English and a firm believer in Scottish independence and (while I’m at it) Irish unification. I’m firmly of the opinion in the idea of smaller states held together in miniture UNs (I do love being controversial!)

Also, can we note that “protecting a minority” was Mr Hilters excuse for annexing the Sudentenland in Czechoslovakia

Or Russia with basically all post-Soviet frozen conflicts.

[SD_Film Artists]

Hottest take: Serbia is Kosovo, and Kosovo should annex it.

Just like how Argentina loves to point out how close it is to the Falklands; if we fellow their own logic the Falklands government should annex Buenos Aires because "it's close".

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Both Kosovo and Serbia fucking suck.

They may as well suck together as the Autonomous Republic of Kosovo in the Republic of Serbia.

[Page]

I don't know a whole lot about about Kosovo and Serbia politics, but a quick google search shows that the vast majority of Kosovo's population are Albanians, not Serbs, and I do know the vast majority of the world has recognized Kosovo's independence, and that is enough for me to dismiss "Kosovo is Serbia" as irredentist nonsense.

As for whether their leader should be tried for crimes by the ICC, maybe. A whole lot of world leaders should be indicted for something or other - Trump, Bolsonaro, Winnie the Xi, Putin, Erdogan, Duterte, Netenyahu, the king of Saudi Arabia, fucking scumbags the lot of them.

[Anatoliyanskiy]

The Balkan Wars: Revenge of the Serbs coming your way October 2020.