Is CANZUK viable?

[Britannia Maior]

Better thread title:
CAN CANZUK work? Or would it ZUK?

I think the topic has shifted slightly since then.

I don't think we're in CANZUK anymore.

CANZUK should be kept to the countries after which the acronym is named, with the exception of territories that could be classed as Overseas Territories (Malta or Jamaica seem small enough for that designation but nothing bigger).

[Region of Dwipantara]

Better thread title:
CAN CANZUK work? Or would it ZUK?

I think the topic has shifted slightly since then.

I don't think we're in CANZUK anymore.

Maybe, but it kinda still is as "CANZUK" is a part of "CANZUKUSINJPSK"

[Godular]

I think the topic has shifted slightly since then.

I don't think we're in CANZUK anymore.

CANZUK should be kept to the countries after which the acronym is named, with the exception of territories that could be classed as Overseas Territories (Malta or Jamaica seem small enough for that designation but nothing bigger).

*sigh*

I guess the pun WAS a little esoteric.

[Stellar Colonies]

Not sure about CANZUK on its own, but I like the idea of CANZUKUS.

[Region of Dwipantara]

I think the topic has shifted slightly since then.

I don't think we're in CANZUK anymore.

CANZUK should be kept to the countries after which the acronym is named, with the exception of territories that could be classed as Overseas Territories (Malta or Jamaica seem small enough for that designation but nothing bigger).

If we're at it why don't we just form the Imperial Federation with one Imperial Parliament? Surely Washington and Beijing would both tremble in fear.

[Britannia Maior]

CANZUK should be kept to the countries after which the acronym is named, with the exception of territories that could be classed as Overseas Territories (Malta or Jamaica seem small enough for that designation but nothing bigger).

If we're at it why don't we just form the Imperial Federation with one Imperial Parliament? Surely Washington and Beijing would both tremble in fear.

I wish lol.

Not sure about CANZUK on its own, but I like the idea of CANZUKUS.

Ugh. No thanks, I’d rather not have my country be in any way integrated with the goddamned US. I’m sick of how Americanised we are already, I don’t want any more of that.

[Stellar Colonies]

CANZUK should be kept to the countries after which the acronym is named, with the exception of territories that could be classed as Overseas Territories (Malta or Jamaica seem small enough for that designation but nothing bigger).

If we're at it why don't we just form the Imperial Federation with one Imperial Parliament? Surely Washington and Beijing would both tremble in fear.

I don't know about 'trembling in fear', but I'd imagine that the US would have an interest in forming trade and security ties with such a bloc.

Just don't try to split off New England as a member of the club.

[Neanderthaland]

CANZUK should be kept to the countries after which the acronym is named, with the exception of territories that could be classed as Overseas Territories (Malta or Jamaica seem small enough for that designation but nothing bigger).

*sigh*

I guess the pun WAS a little esoteric.

I appreciated it.

[Britannia Maior]

If we're at it why don't we just form the Imperial Federation with one Imperial Parliament? Surely Washington and Beijing would both tremble in fear.

I don't know about 'trembling in fear', but I'd imagine that the US would have an interest in forming trade and security ties with such a bloc.

Just don't try to split off New England as a member of the club.

I believe RoD was being sarcastic.

[Stellar Colonies]

If we're at it why don't we just form the Imperial Federation with one Imperial Parliament? Surely Washington and Beijing would both tremble in fear.

I wish lol.

Not sure about CANZUK on its own, but I like the idea of CANZUKUS.

Ugh. No thanks, I’d rather not have my country be in any way integrated with the goddamned US. I’m sick of how Americanised we are already, I don’t want any more of that.

Okie then

Goodbye, goodbye, good friends goodbye

I don't know about 'trembling in fear', but I'd imagine that the US would have an interest in forming trade and security ties with such a bloc.

Just don't try to split off New England as a member of the club.

I believe RoD was being sarcastic.

Ah.

[Cetacea]

Not sure about CANZUK on its own, but I like the idea of CANZUKUS.

Noooo we want US to stay away from Us

CANZUK should be kept to the countries after which the acronym is named, with the exception of territories that could be classed as Overseas Territories (Malta or Jamaica seem small enough for that designation but nothing bigger).

*sigh*

I guess the pun WAS a little esoteric.

No its a good pun

[Merala]

Is CANZUK practical in the 21st century?

No, it's a wannabe Imperial Preference 2.0.

Will these countries benefit from CANZUK?

No, they benefit more from trading with China and the United States, trading amongst themselves is not big enough of a market to counter China or the United States.

Do you see CANZUK happening in the future?

No, we are more likely to witness British balkanization than this pipe dream coming true.

Should other nations be considered?

No, as it is not a viable idea in the first place. Ireland benefits more from EU trade than trade with the UK and most Indians cannot afford British/Canadian/Australian/Kiwi goods and I doubt that they are keen on hosting sweatshops for British/Canadian/Australian/Kiwi companies. This would only be reasonable if the United States were to be included, but that would be against the nature of CANZUK altogether and judging by current events, a terrible idea since the US will just slap tariffs on your goods even when you aren't China (which is why the US is losing influence and trust. They already didn't have any respect to begin with).

Does it need a better name?

It needs not to exist.

[American Pere Housh]

Not sure about CANZUK on its own, but I like the idea of CANZUKUS.

Noooo we want US to stay away from Us

*sigh*

I guess the pun WAS a little esoteric.

No its a good pun

Hmm CANZUK? Nah CANZUKUS? That is an alliance I like to see.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!

[Vedan 11]

If we're at it why don't we just form the Imperial Federation with one Imperial Parliament? Surely Washington and Beijing would both tremble in fear.

I wish lol.

Not sure about CANZUK on its own, but I like the idea of CANZUKUS.

Ugh. No thanks, I’d rather not have my country be in any way integrated with the goddamned US. I’m sick of how Americanised we are already, I don’t want any more of that.

You know what? Your right, blind xenophobic nationalism is definitely better than mutual respect and trade between two closely related countries. I geuss I should go smash all my pink floyd CDS, burn all my Harry Potter books and dvds, and smelt down all those silver Britannia's i bought from the royal mint.

[Auze]

Not sure about CANZUK on its own, but I like the idea of CANZUKUS.

Agreed. Though at that point we should just call it "The Anglosphere".

[Luziyca]

Not sure about CANZUK on its own, but I like the idea of CANZUKUS.

What is the whole point of CANZUK if you're going to just include the US in it? The USA will basically dominate the organization, and we'd basically end up being neocolonies of America.

[Forsher]

CANZUK is a fine name.

Not to put to fine a point on it, but including other nations would probably make Australia and the UK completely opposed. I'm not saying that whatever appetite there is for CANZUK here in NZ is independent on its being these four nations, just that it's Australia that has a problem with backdoor migration... not us.

Those first three questions are... pretty much the same question? And it really depends on whether we're talking about a hard or soft CANZUK (can't remember if this is my terminology or something I read). A soft CANZUK probably will happen in the sense that half the hard CANZUK already exists (via CER) and three fourths of a very soft CANZUK similarly exists via CPTPP... and if you want to call it an alliance well you've got four of the five eyes here, right?

What I'm saying is that it's not too difficult to imagine the UK trying to get a multilateral deal with some immigration alignment. That would probably mean a common translation of education standards, maybe some jargon alignment, a mutual commitment to a common points system or maybe just a relaxation of points (not sure how many of those are "allowed" by international law but whatever). Similarly, it's quite easy to see Australia trying to pulls itself out of China's orbit a bit with whatever it might get from CANZUK.

The prospect of a hard CANZUK... so freedom of movement or more... seemed unlikely before Covid and even less so now. What you have to remember is that it's actually really fucking hard for NZ to get decent FTAs because so much of our economy is wrapped up in agriculture which is pretty much the single hardest aspect of goods trade to liberalise... and the Canadians are some of the least enthusiastic agricultural liberalises. Tying your economy so tightly to NZ's dairy industry might appeal to Brits of a certain age, but literally no-one else. CER almost certainly only exists because of geographic proximity (or, rather, Australia's reluctance towards seeing itself as an Asian country) but obviously CANZUK doesn't have that at all.

So... maybe some kind of CPTPP-level FTA, maybe a tightening of military/intelligence/legal (as in jurisdiction/deportation) links and/or limited liberalisation of services trade/eased migration but much more than that? I doubt it. BUT this is the kind of proposal where you might see movement towards the holy grail of international trade, i.e. meaningful services trade liberalisation. You've got culturally similar countries (Canada less so), high levels of development, a shared language and similar indigenous rights issues (except the UK) within the context of substantial existing connections & an assertive foreign despot that's deeply unpopular with Australians.

[Bear Stearns]

CANUS is viable and ANZ is viable. Beyond that...making them part of the same state would be a bit impractical.

For the UK, just conquer Ireland again.

[Neanderthaland]

CANUS is viable and ANZ is viable. Beyond that...making them part of the same state would be a bit impractical.

For the UK, just conquer Ireland again.

Please sir. CANUSANZ some more?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

CANZUK is a fine name.

Not to put to fine a point on it, but including other nations would probably make Australia and the UK completely opposed. I'm not saying that whatever appetite there is for CANZUK here in NZ is independent on its being these four nations, just that it's Australia that has a problem with backdoor migration... not us.

Australia "has a problem with" backdoor migration, as in Australia cracks down on it. Are you saying Australia wouldn't want to join because the other countries are too permeable?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

CANUS is viable and ANZ is viable. Beyond that...making them part of the same state would be a bit impractical.

For the UK, just conquer Ireland again.

Please sir. CANUSANZ some more?

If the US is in, I want to be out.
No 400-lb gorillas in the treehouse!

[Neanderthaland]

Please sir. CANUSANZ some more?

If the US is in, I want to be out.
No 400-lb gorillas in the treehouse!

I mean, I know this is a metaphor. But, as it happens, gorillas make excellent treehouses.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

If the US is in, I want to be out.
No 400-lb gorillas in the treehouse!

I mean, I know this is a metaphor. But, as it happens, gorillas make excellent treehouses.

If any one member is so economically dominant that them leaving would collapse the agreement, that member would get their own way in pretty much everything.

"Where does a 400-pound gorilla sit?" was the reference.

[Atheris]

Don't the Commonwealth and Five Eyes already exist?

[Neanderthaland]

I mean, I know this is a metaphor. But, as it happens, gorillas make excellent treehouses.

If any one member is so economically dominant that them leaving would collapse the agreement, that member would get their own way in pretty much everything.

"Where does a 400-pound gorilla sit?" was the reference.

I get that.

But, quite literally, gorillas sleep in nests they build in trees. And they seem to share these pretty well.