Is CANZUK viable?

[The Archbishopric of York]

Would such a thing really even need a Capitol? If I'm not mistaken the CANZUK idea is just favorable immigration and trade laws between the participating nations, it's not like they are relinquishing there sovereignty to form a new country or something.

As seen in this thread, suggestions for a CANZUK union run the gamut from a simple free trade area to a federal state.

[Britannia Maior]

Would such a thing really even need a Capitol? If I'm not mistaken the CANZUK idea is just favorable immigration and trade laws between the participating nations, it's not like they are relinquishing there sovereignty to form a new country or something.

I personally would think it would need a permanent capital. However that is due to the fact that I myself desire it in the form of an Imperial Federation federal polity. I can live with it being more like the EU, but what I want most of all from it is the economic, political and cultural counterbalance to the current and emerging superpowers.

[The Archbishopric of York]

Would such a thing really even need a Capitol? If I'm not mistaken the CANZUK idea is just favorable immigration and trade laws between the participating nations, it's not like they are relinquishing there sovereignty to form a new country or something.

I personally would think it would need a permanent capital. However that is due to the fact that I myself desire it in the form of an Imperial Federation federal polity. I can live with it being more like the EU, but what I want most of all from it is the economic, political and cultural counterbalance to the current and emerging superpowers.

CANZUK is not going to be able to provide any sort of economic and political counterbalance to the US, China, India or the EU.

[Bienenhalde]

Major arguments that I've heard against the US joining is:

1. The American healthcare system is functionally much different than that of CANZUK and would impede any sort of shared system
2. America would effectively dominate most trade talks due to their massive economy
3. US foreign policy is drastically different from the CANZUK powers

There are those arguments but there is also how much America already culturally infests the CANZUK countries. It is my belief that the UK itself is already far too Americanised, and the inclusion of the US into the CANZUK union would only further Americanise it along with Canada, Australia and New Zealand. I would never support such an idea unless the opposite becomes the case (America becoming more and more culturally British).

I sort of wish the latter would be come the case, but unfortunately it is not very likely.

[Britannia Maior]

There are those arguments but there is also how much America already culturally infests the CANZUK countries. It is my belief that the UK itself is already far too Americanised, and the inclusion of the US into the CANZUK union would only further Americanise it along with Canada, Australia and New Zealand. I would never support such an idea unless the opposite becomes the case (America becoming more and more culturally British).

I sort of wish the latter would be come the case, but unfortunately it is not very likely.

It isn’t unless it becomes organised, which can be done by raising new generations on British culture and values, or introducing it to others and thus subtly influencing them.

[Rusozak]

Would such a thing really even need a Capitol? If I'm not mistaken the CANZUK idea is just favorable immigration and trade laws between the participating nations, it's not like they are relinquishing there sovereignty to form a new country or something.

As seen in this thread, suggestions for a CANZUK union run the gamut from a simple free trade area to a federal state.

And are we talking a federation where everyone's equal or a British Empire 2.0 hegemony kind of deal?

[Novus America]

Would such a thing really even need a Capitol? If I'm not mistaken the CANZUK idea is just favorable immigration and trade laws between the participating nations, it's not like they are relinquishing there sovereignty to form a new country or something.

As seen in this thread, suggestions for a CANZUK union run the gamut from a simple free trade area to a federal state.

And this is the important thing to be answered.
I am not against the idea per se, but prefer Canada join a North American union instead, but it is ultimately up to Canada.

But what will this CANZUK be? A trade agreement, Visa free travel and military alliance? Or a full federation?

A free trade area is likely, although Canada is still going to stay in NAFTA/USMCA almost certainly as well.
A federation much less likely. Many problems exist, such as the English concept of “Parliamentary Sovereignty”, working out the details of who has how much power etc, countries fearing a loss of sovereignty.

The best time to have done something like this is past (although Canada was already given massive de facto sovereignty back on the mid 1800s). An Imperial federation idea been implemented sometime before 1960 maybe something of it could have held together. But that was 60 years ago.

An Imperial Federation of the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Aden, Papua New Guinea, maybe Sarawak and Sabah, plus some smaller Pacific Island nations like Fiji and such could have and probably should have been retained, but now they have move much farther apart and recreating such a thing very difficult.

[Britannia Maior]

As seen in this thread, suggestions for a CANZUK union run the gamut from a simple free trade area to a federal state.

And are we talking a federation where everyone's equal or a British Empire 2.0 hegemony kind of deal?

Ideally the former. The latter would only cause too much resentment and aid its opponents by driving people away from CANZUK. All citizens of the CANZUK countries need to be treated equally in the eyes of the law.

[Novus America]

I personally would think it would need a permanent capital. However that is due to the fact that I myself desire it in the form of an Imperial Federation federal polity. I can live with it being more like the EU, but what I want most of all from it is the economic, political and cultural counterbalance to the current and emerging superpowers.

CANZUK is not going to be able to provide any sort of economic and political counterbalance to the US, China, India or the EU.

True. The US and PRC economy would still massively dwarf CANZUK, and it would not be near the top of the world at all population wise, it would have a combined population less than 1/10th that of India.

It would have an economic power and population comparable to Japan, although still significant, hardly a super power.

[Cetacea]

Don't you all already have the commonwealth ?

CANZUK is the commonwealth without the embarassing bits, its proponents promote the shared Anglophile culture without wanting to appear racist.

On a purely economic and social basis it has merits and because of having the Commonwealth heritage could work but the optics of a whitewash arent good

[Kubra]

So the Commonwealth but with an army and without the brown places
So um why exclude the rest of the commonwealth

[Ostroeuropa]

Why not? London is perfectly suited as the capital and really the only one that makes sense unless we’re pulling an Australia and building an entirely new capital.

"Imperial federation" "London is perfectly suited as the capital and really the only one that makes sense"

Yeah you just want the Empire back.

So what, if it's an Empire of willing equals?

So the Commonwealth but with an army and without the brown places
So um why exclude the rest of the commonwealth

Personally, I wouldn't. But CANZUK has high support among the nations in question. The only comparable nation being Jamaica, which a few years ago had over 50% support for being annexed by the united kingdom.

If an ex-colony wanted to join the Imperial federation, i'd probably support it.

[Bienenhalde]

Not only is it viable, but CANZUK needs to happen NOW and with the set aim of future unification into a single federal political entity.

1. YES
2. YES
3. YES
4. Unlikely that Ireland would ever want back in, and I wouldn't try and push it on them, but they'd be welcome as a fellow English speaking nation with a similar culture.
5. CANZUK would do fine in the political alliance stage. But it should be changed post-unification into a single polity. Federal Anglosphere, Anglospheric Commonwealth, British Empire. Many possibilities!

We don't have much in common with the predominantly south Asian culture of the UK

Totally unfunny.

Wouldn't adding Ireland to CANZUK be a potential solution to the Northern Irish border problem?

[The Archbishopric of York]

So the Commonwealth but with an army and without the brown places
So um why exclude the rest of the commonwealth

Most other Commonwealth member states don't have a similar level of social and economic development to the CANZUK countries.

"Imperial federation" "London is perfectly suited as the capital and really the only one that makes sense"

Yeah you just want the Empire back.

So what, if it's an Empire of willing equals?

There is no such thing.

Wouldn't adding Ireland to CANZUK be a potential solution to the Northern Irish border problem?

The Republic of Ireland isn't even a member of the Commonwealth. I doubt there's any appetite in Dublin for joining a closer association of former British colonies.

[Novus America]

Not only is it viable, but CANZUK needs to happen NOW and with the set aim of future unification into a single federal political entity.

1. YES
2. YES
3. YES
4. Unlikely that Ireland would ever want back in, and I wouldn't try and push it on them, but they'd be welcome as a fellow English speaking nation with a similar culture.
5. CANZUK would do fine in the political alliance stage. But it should be changed post-unification into a single polity. Federal Anglosphere, Anglospheric Commonwealth, British Empire. Many possibilities!


Totally unfunny.

Wouldn't adding Ireland to CANZUK be a potential solution to the Northern Irish border problem?

It would, if Ireland wanted any part of it. Which is not the case.

Ireland being staunchly republican, EU, demilitarized and neoliberal means no Ireland.

[Bienenhalde]

So the Commonwealth but with an army and without the brown places
So um why exclude the rest of the commonwealth

I see no reason to exclude non-white countries in the Commonwealth, but the real question is whether or not they would want to join.

[Novus America]

So the Commonwealth but with an army and without the brown places
So um why exclude the rest of the commonwealth

Well besides racial, cultural, social and economic disparity issues, assuming any sort of fair representation on population has the problem of India having a bigger population than all the rest COMBINED.

It basically becomes mega India.

Also many countries of the Commonwealth have radically different economic, trade and foreign policy priorities, as well as political systems.

[Kazakah]

Would such a thing really even need a Capitol? If I'm not mistaken the CANZUK idea is just favorable immigration and trade laws between the participating nations, it's not like they are relinquishing there sovereignty to form a new country or something.

I personally would think it would need a permanent capital. However that is due to the fact that I myself desire it in the form of an Imperial Federation federal polity. I can live with it being more like the EU, but what I want most of all from it is the economic, political and cultural counterbalance to the current and emerging superpowers.

I'm personally not in favour of an EU-esque federation. What I want is a free trade and free travel zone. No Brit Empire 2.0 for me, the EU showed me that such a political alliance is not worth it. I'd simply prefer an agreement where us friendly nations trade and work with each other.

[Godular]

I'd like to see this, and maybe even have the US as part of it. Get some common space travel funding going on!

[Kubra]

So the Commonwealth but with an army and without the brown places
So um why exclude the rest of the commonwealth

Most other Commonwealth member states don't have a similar level of social and economic development to the CANZUK countries.

So what, if it's an Empire of willing equals?

There is no such thing.

Wouldn't adding Ireland to CANZUK be a potential solution to the Northern Irish border problem?

The Republic of Ireland isn't even a member of the Commonwealth. I doubt there's any appetite in Dublin for joining a closer association of former British colonies.

sure but a military alliance without India is the Allies without the soviets.

[Kubra]

So the Commonwealth but with an army and without the brown places
So um why exclude the rest of the commonwealth

Well besides racial, cultural, social and economic disparity issues, assuming any sort of fair representation on population has the problem of India having a bigger population than all the rest COMBINED.

It basically becomes mega India.

Also many countries of the Commonwealth have radically different economic, trade and foreign policy priorities, as well as political systems.

I fail to see the problem with mega India, at least from a meme perspective.

[Novus America]

Well besides racial, cultural, social and economic disparity issues, assuming any sort of fair representation on population has the problem of India having a bigger population than all the rest COMBINED.

It basically becomes mega India.

Also many countries of the Commonwealth have radically different economic, trade and foreign policy priorities, as well as political systems.

I fail to see the problem with mega India, at least from a meme perspective.

Make the Indian Empire great again?

While entertaining an idea, obviously from any realistic perspective I doubt the UK would be interested in becoming basically a state of India.

Although a military alliance or military cooperation agreement of between the Five Eyes, India and Japan is definitely possible. Maybe along with some sort of trade agreement covering all 7.

[Region of Dwipantara]

Are the common economic and political interests of the possible member-states really strong enough to necessitate a somekind of union? EU, ASEAN, its members are nations with strong trade and geographical links and will be benefited greatly if they can coordinate international relations together, strengthening their collective bargaining power. If there isn't really that much benefit, it'll just be another Commonwealth (which I don't really how important are they, but it clearly doesn't seem too influental).

I fail to see the problem with mega India, at least from a meme perspective.

Make the Indian Empire great again?

While entertaining an idea, obviously from any realistic perspective I doubt the UK would be interested in becoming basically a state of India.

Although a military alliance or military cooperation agreement of between the Five Eyes, India and Japan is definitely possible. Maybe along with some sort of trade agreement covering all 7.

At this point this proposed union should just be an expansion of G7 and include the rest of strong democratic states like Japan, Australia, India, and South Korea. A.k.a. the "Anti-China Alliance". Though Germany and France would probably wanna stick closer to the EU, while I dunno if those country wants the US in.

[Neanderthaland]

Better thread title:
CAN CANZUK work? Or would it ZUK?

[Godular]

Better thread title:
CAN CANZUK work? Or would it ZUK?

I think the topic has shifted slightly since then.

I don't think we're in CANZUK anymore.