Washington & Jefferson Statue Get Pulled Down

[Diarcesia]

Which means they haven't achieved true communism.

They've achieved true communism, not full communism.

I'm very curious on how you think of that, but let's do it in another thread.

[Northern Davincia]

Very well; Washington's statue should remain because he is the most perfect man I can mentally envision.

You must have a low standard if you consider a slaveowner to be anywhere near perfect.

[Salus Maior]

Which means they haven't achieved true communism.

They've achieved true communism, not full communism.

No, they haven't.

[Alcala-Cordel]

You must have a low standard if you consider a slaveowner to be anywhere near perfect.

A slaveowner who treated his slaves well and then freed them.

A slaveowner is a slaveowner is a slaveowner.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Products of their time, but they stood for something good. I'm not hiding the fact that I hate the Founding Fathers.

Can it not be said that the founding fathers where also products of their time? But that they stood for something good?

You can’t hand wave away racism that easily

Communists don't tend to value consistency. They tend to love to hold pro-western people to a higher standard, especially American figures.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Products of their time, but they stood for something good. I'm not hiding the fact that I hate the Founding Fathers.

Can it not be said that the founding fathers where also products of their time? But that they stood for something good?

You can’t hand wave away racism that easily

You're right about that last bit, it's absolutely terrible.

[Alcala-Cordel]

They've achieved true communism, not full communism.

No, they haven't.

Someone needs to read the Conquest of Bread

[Thermodolia]

Marx was also a racist. As was Debs. Yet they both deserve statues in your opinion. Maybe it’s not the racism you care about but the fact that you hate the founding fathers but don’t want to admit it

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2012/08/lincoln-and-marx

But the person that I quoted said that Lincoln shouldn’t get a statue but Marx should.

[Thermodolia]

Can it not be said that the founding fathers where also products of their time? But that they stood for something good?

You can’t hand wave away racism that easily

You're right about that last bit, it's absolutely terrible.

So will you revise your statement that Marx and Debs should get a statue because of this?

[Alcala-Cordel]

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2012/08/lincoln-and-marx

But the person that I quoted said that Lincoln shouldn’t get a statue but Marx should.

I stand by that, though I'll admit Lincoln is more deserving of a statue than most Presidents.

You're right about that last bit, it's absolutely terrible.

So will you revise your statement that Marx and Debs should get a statue because of this?

No, because of what they stood for.

[Thermodolia]

But the person that I quoted said that Lincoln shouldn’t get a statue but Marx should.

I stand by that, though I'll admit Lincoln is more deserving of a statue than most Presidents.

So will you revise your statement that Marx and Debs should get a statue because of this?

No, because of what they stood for.

But the founding fathers shouldn’t because reasons?

You are full of contradictions

[Diarcesia]

But the person that I quoted said that Lincoln shouldn’t get a statue but Marx should.

I stand by that, though I'll admit Lincoln is more deserving of a statue than most Presidents.

So will you revise your statement that Marx and Debs should get a statue because of this?

No, because of what they stood for.

Disagreements of what they stood for is the root of all this iconoclasm.
Jefferson sure was a racist and raped a young woman = valid to group A
He is instrumental in founding a country revolutionary for its time = also valid to group B

Either way, you're gonna step on someone's toes.

I stand by that, though I'll admit Lincoln is more deserving of a statue than most Presidents.


No, because of what they stood for.

But the founding fathers shouldn’t because reasons?

You are full of contradictions

It means his belief system is different. Communism to him is more deserving of remembrance than a country that by his own words embodies a lot of evil ideas.

[Xmara]

I stand by that, though I'll admit Lincoln is more deserving of a statue than most Presidents.


No, because of what they stood for.

But the founding fathers shouldn’t because reasons?

You are full of contradictions

Remember, you’re dealing with someone who is anti-America

[Alcala-Cordel]

I stand by that, though I'll admit Lincoln is more deserving of a statue than most Presidents.


No, because of what they stood for.

But the founding fathers shouldn’t because reasons?

You are full of contradictions

I don't like what the Founding Fathers stood for, I do like what these people stood for. Like Xmara said, you’re dealing with someone who is anti-America".

[The Two Jerseys]

A slaveowner who treated his slaves well and then freed them.

A slaveowner is a slaveowner is a slaveowner.

A communist ideology that killed millions is a communist ideology that killed millions is a communist ideology that killed millions.

[Thermodolia]

I stand by that, though I'll admit Lincoln is more deserving of a statue than most Presidents.


No, because of what they stood for.

Disagreements of what they stood for is the root of all this iconoclasm.
Jefferson sure was a racist and raped a young woman = valid to group A
He is instrumental in founding a country revolutionary for its time = also valid to group B

Either way, you're gonna step on someone's toes.

A country who’s revolution has been responsible for several revolutions in history. If the American revolution didn’t happen the French Revolution never would have happened meaning that our modern ideas of nationalism and socialism would never have come to light

[Alcala-Cordel]

A slaveowner is a slaveowner is a slaveowner.

A communist ideology that killed millions is a communist ideology that killed millions is a communist ideology that killed millions.

I already addressed the fact that communism hasn't killed anyone. Go dig up that post.

[Diarcesia]

But the founding fathers shouldn’t because reasons?

You are full of contradictions

I don't like what the Founding Fathers stood for, I do like what these people stood for. Like Xmara said, you’re dealing with someone who is anti-America".

But you're most likely not in America. Why would you care what statues Americans want to keep in their public property? Question not applies if you're actually from there.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Disagreements of what they stood for is the root of all this iconoclasm.
Jefferson sure was a racist and raped a young woman = valid to group A
He is instrumental in founding a country revolutionary for its time = also valid to group B

Either way, you're gonna step on someone's toes.

A country who’s revolution has been responsible for several revolutions in history. If the American revolution didn’t happen the French Revolution never would have happened meaning that our modern ideas of nationalism and socialism would never have come to light

That was inadvertent.

I don't like what the Founding Fathers stood for, I do like what these people stood for. Like Xmara said, you’re dealing with someone who is anti-America".

But you're most likely not in America. Why would you care what statues Americans want to keep in their public property? Question not applies if you're actually from there.

I am in America though, California to be specific.

[The Reformed American Republic]

A communist ideology that killed millions is a communist ideology that killed millions is a communist ideology that killed millions.

I already addressed the fact that communism hasn't killed anyone. Go dig up that post.

No true scotsman I'm sure.

[Thermodolia]

But the founding fathers shouldn’t because reasons?

You are full of contradictions

I don't like what the Founding Fathers stood for, I do like what these people stood for. Like Xmara said, you’re dealing with someone who is anti-America".

Yet the American revolution is responsible for socialism. Without the American revolution several events the world over would have been butterflied off

[Alcala-Cordel]

I already addressed the fact that communism hasn't killed anyone. Go dig up that post.

No true scotsman I'm sure.

The actions of people like Stalin directly contradict the the ideals of communism

[Alcala-Cordel]

I don't like what the Founding Fathers stood for, I do like what these people stood for. Like Xmara said, you’re dealing with someone who is anti-America".

Yet the American revolution is responsible for socialism. Without the American revolution several events the world over would have been butterflied off

Only it was inadvertent.

[Thermodolia]

A country who’s revolution has been responsible for several revolutions in history. If the American revolution didn’t happen the French Revolution never would have happened meaning that our modern ideas of nationalism and socialism would never have come to light

That was inadvertent.

It still effected several revolutions. The French Revolutionaries pointed to the US revolution when their own occurred.

If Marx and Debs while racists they are should get statues for the things they stood for then shouldn’t the founding fathers also get statues for the same reason as the ideals of the American revolution had far reaching consequences?

[Northern Davincia]

A slaveowner who treated his slaves well and then freed them.

A slaveowner is a slaveowner is a slaveowner.

Can a man not atone for his sins?

A communist ideology that killed millions is a communist ideology that killed millions is a communist ideology that killed millions.

I already addressed the fact that communism hasn't killed anyone. Go dig up that post.

People claiming to be communists have killed people, though.