Washington & Jefferson Statue Get Pulled Down

[Ethel mermania]

And your absolute naivety about how life works and thinking Friendship and magic will carry the day , I find more a bit more disconcerning.

If you were right and people could be deterred from a given action by seeing examples of the painful consequences that follow those actions then there would have been one night of protests after George Floyd's death and then the whole nation would have been cowed by the violent response of the cops. But if anything the opposite has happened. The more the cops try to violently suppress dissent, the more people protest that violent suppression. People are putting their bodies and their very lives on the line to try and bring about a more just society, and you seem to think they're pigs who are just rioting and looting because they can get away with it.

I am sorry what looting was shut down after the floyd protests?


Peaceful protest is ok and a right in this country, peaceful protest should never be shut down.

Burning and looting is not peaceful. There is a difference.

[The Reformed American Republic]

If you were right and people could be deterred from a given action by seeing examples of the painful consequences that follow those actions then there would have been one night of protests after George Floyd's death and then the whole nation would have been cowed by the violent response of the cops. But if anything the opposite has happened. The more the cops try to violently suppress dissent, the more people protest that violent suppression. People are putting their bodies and their very lives on the line to try and bring about a more just society, and you seem to think they're pigs who are just rioting and looting because they can get away with it.

I am sorry what looting was shut down after the floyd protests?


Peaceful protest is ok and a right in this country, peaceful protest should never be shut down.

Burning and looting is not peaceful. There is a difference.

This ^^ And our main document that protects free expression says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[Fedel]

Unfortunately, what most people don't realize is that in a couple hundred years 99.9% of us will be considered "backwards" and "bigoted" in some way with the .1% that aren't being the people we consider to be deviants, freaks and the insane nowadays.

[Kowani]

Unfortunately, what most people don't realize is that in a couple hundred years 99.9% of us will be considered "backwards" and "bigoted" in some way with the .1% that aren't being the people we consider to be deviants, freaks and the insane nowadays.

…Yeah, that’s kinda a feature, not a bug. There’s a metric fuckton of prejudices and bigotry that even those of us who are considered progressives have subconsciously absorbed, and a perceptive set modeled through the eyes of the default economic system, as well as the general cultural worldview.

As such, to quote Proudhon: “My ideal of a society is one in which I would be guillotined as a Conservative.”

[Picairn]

As such, to quote Proudhon: “My ideal of a society is one in which I would be guillotined as a Conservative.”

Guillotining people for having different political views is not my ideal of a society at all. In fact, it sounds like a dystopia.

[Ifreann]

If you were right and people could be deterred from a given action by seeing examples of the painful consequences that follow those actions then there would have been one night of protests after George Floyd's death and then the whole nation would have been cowed by the violent response of the cops. But if anything the opposite has happened. The more the cops try to violently suppress dissent, the more people protest that violent suppression. People are putting their bodies and their very lives on the line to try and bring about a more just society, and you seem to think they're pigs who are just rioting and looting because they can get away with it.

I am sorry what looting was shut down after the floyd protests?


Peaceful protest is ok and a right in this country, peaceful protest should never be shut down.

Burning and looting is not peaceful. There is a difference.

Not a relevant one. Your stated belief is that if people are seen to be punished for doing a certain thing, you were talking about vandalism but I am talking about protesting, then other people will be deterred from doing that thing. You think that vandalism would stop happening if people were harshly punished for vandalism. Did you miss the weeks of cops attacking protesters with tear gas and rubber bullets and batons and cars? If the real world worked the way you say it does, that would have happened once and then there wouldn't be any more protests. Why did punishing protesters not deter them from further protest? It can't be because some piece of paper somewhere says that one of those things is legal and one isn't, that's ridiculous.

[Ethel mermania]

I am sorry what looting was shut down after the floyd protests?


Peaceful protest is ok and a right in this country, peaceful protest should never be shut down.

Burning and looting is not peaceful. There is a difference.

Not a relevant one. Your stated belief is that if people are seen to be punished for doing a certain thing, you were talking about vandalism but I am talking about protesting, then other people will be deterred from doing that thing. You think that vandalism would stop happening if people were harshly punished for vandalism. Did you miss the weeks of cops attacking protesters with tear gas and rubber bullets and batons and cars? If the real world worked the way you say it does, that would have happened once and then there wouldn't be any more protests. Why did punishing protesters not deter them from further protest? It can't be because some piece of paper somewhere says that one of those things is legal and one isn't, that's ridiculous.

In nyc anyway the bail reform laws put most of the folks arrested back on the streets in less than 24 hours. So they kept doing it.

A piece of paper says murder is illegal yet 178 people were killed in NYC so far this year through June 30th, last year a 21 point increase. Shootings up 46%

20 people were shot and killed since july 1. So since people get killed anyway we should do away with 5hat piece of paper with murder laws.

[Aureumterra]

Unfortunately, what most people don't realize is that in a couple hundred years 99.9% of us will be considered "backwards" and "bigoted" in some way with the .1% that aren't being the people we consider to be deviants, freaks and the insane nowadays.

…Yeah, that’s kinda a feature, not a bug. There’s a metric fuckton of prejudices and bigotry that even those of us who are considered progressives have subconsciously absorbed, and a perceptive set modeled through the eyes of the default economic system, as well as the general cultural worldview.

As such, to quote Proudhon: “My ideal of a society is one in which I would be guillotined as a Conservative.”

I disagree, I don’t think guillotining people for being conservative is an ideal society. If you disagree, feel free to debate

[Ifreann]

Not a relevant one. Your stated belief is that if people are seen to be punished for doing a certain thing, you were talking about vandalism but I am talking about protesting, then other people will be deterred from doing that thing. You think that vandalism would stop happening if people were harshly punished for vandalism. Did you miss the weeks of cops attacking protesters with tear gas and rubber bullets and batons and cars? If the real world worked the way you say it does, that would have happened once and then there wouldn't be any more protests. Why did punishing protesters not deter them from further protest? It can't be because some piece of paper somewhere says that one of those things is legal and one isn't, that's ridiculous.

In nyc anyway the bail reform laws put most of the folks arrested back on the streets in less than 24 hours. So they kept doing it.

In NYC two cop cars just straight up ran over protesters. Despite this, people kept protesting. Why were they not deterred by the cops trying to fucking kill them?

A piece of paper says murder is illegal yet 178 people were killed in NYC so far this year through June 30th, last year a 21 point increase. Shootings up 46%

20 people were shot and killed since july 1. So since people get killed anyway we should do away with 5hat piece of paper with murder laws.

Please try to engage with the point I am actually making, which is that human psychology does not give a shit about government paperwork and legal technicalities. If punishing people is a deterrent, as you claim, then punishing people is a deterrent regardless of what the law says. If it is true, as you say, that harsh punishments for vandalism will put a stop to vandalism then logically the same should hold true for any action, legal or illegal.

[Rojava Free State]

All the broken windows policing you've done so far hasn't protected your statues. Honestly, I don't know how you can say that your current policing policies work when you have nationwide protests against the police, to which the police are responding with disproportionate, brutal, and often criminals violence.

Well, you see, American culture glorifies violence and rebellion against Authority figures. Always has.

Hence why mass murder is PG-13, and every cop movie has the hero as a loose cannon who doesn't follow the rules or respect his superiors.

Giving the middle finger to authority figures is pretty much hardwired into the American ideal of Heroism.

I wish that was actually the case. Americans like to fight authority they know they can easily win against, but real tyranny has been increasing for the last god knows how many years and I can't tell you how many people said "the surveillance is there to keep us safe." No, it's there to protect certain powerful people. Not you or me. There are many rebellious americans but i don't think it's most of us.

[Rojava Free State]

…Yeah, that’s kinda a feature, not a bug. There’s a metric fuckton of prejudices and bigotry that even those of us who are considered progressives have subconsciously absorbed, and a perceptive set modeled through the eyes of the default economic system, as well as the general cultural worldview.

As such, to quote Proudhon: “My ideal of a society is one in which I would be guillotined as a Conservative.”

I disagree, I don’t think guillotining people for being conservative is an ideal society. If you disagree, feel free to debate

It may be figurative. Idk.

[Saiwania]

It is a huge betrayal and setback but similar to those statues getting taken down, the Washington Redskins name is being changed. Chances are, the new name for the NFL team will be much inferior to what it was.

[The Reformed American Republic]

It is a huge betrayal and setback but similar to those statues getting taken down, the Washington Redskins name is being changed. Chances are, the new name for the NFL team will be much inferior to what it was.

Despite the fact that most Native Americans are not really offended by the name. If we want to help Natives, we should invest in their communities, not do name changes for the sake of grandstanding.

[Ethel mermania]

In nyc anyway the bail reform laws put most of the folks arrested back on the streets in less than 24 hours. So they kept doing it.

In NYC two cop cars just straight up ran over protesters. Despite this, people kept protesting. Why were they not deterred by the cops trying to fucking kill them?

A piece of paper says murder is illegal yet 178 people were killed in NYC so far this year through June 30th, last year a 21 point increase. Shootings up 46%

20 people were shot and killed since july 1. So since people get killed anyway we should do away with 5hat piece of paper with murder laws.

Please try to engage with the point I am actually making, which is that human psychology does not give a shit about government paperwork and legal technicalities. If punishing people is a deterrent, as you claim, then punishing people is a deterrent regardless of what the law says. If it is true, as you say, that harsh punishments for vandalism will put a stop to vandalism then logically the same should hold true for any action, legal or illegal.

Sweetie I am engaging your points.


Jail time keeps vandals off the streets and slows vandalism. If you catch and release the lesson learned is the act committed is OK.

Our idiot mayor has told the cops not to arrest people for vandalism. So we get this




You know cause the surrogates court is such a symbol of oppression

[Ifreann]

In NYC two cop cars just straight up ran over protesters. Despite this, people kept protesting. Why were they not deterred by the cops trying to fucking kill them?


Please try to engage with the point I am actually making, which is that human psychology does not give a shit about government paperwork and legal technicalities. If punishing people is a deterrent, as you claim, then punishing people is a deterrent regardless of what the law says. If it is true, as you say, that harsh punishments for vandalism will put a stop to vandalism then logically the same should hold true for any action, legal or illegal.

Sweetie I am engaging your points.


Jail time keeps vandals off the streets and slows vandalism. If you catch and release the lesson learned is the act committed is OK.

Our idiot mayor has told the cops not to arrest people for vandalism. So we get this

You know cause the surrogates court is such a symbol of oppression

So keeping people in custody until their trial, at which point they may be found not guilty and released, will teach them that vandalism is wrong and prevent vandalism.

But gassing and shooting and beating and running over protesters won't teach them anything, because when they're arrested without charge and held in close quarters with other people without regard for the on-going pandemic, they're released after a few hours.

But it's me who doesn't understand the real world and you who does.

[The Emerald Legion]

I am sorry what looting was shut down after the floyd protests?


Peaceful protest is ok and a right in this country, peaceful protest should never be shut down.

Burning and looting is not peaceful. There is a difference.

Not a relevant one. Your stated belief is that if people are seen to be punished for doing a certain thing, you were talking about vandalism but I am talking about protesting, then other people will be deterred from doing that thing. You think that vandalism would stop happening if people were harshly punished for vandalism. Did you miss the weeks of cops attacking protesters with tear gas and rubber bullets and batons and cars? If the real world worked the way you say it does, that would have happened once and then there wouldn't be any more protests. Why did punishing protesters not deter them from further protest? It can't be because some piece of paper somewhere says that one of those things is legal and one isn't, that's ridiculous.

This argument is ridiculous. Yes, a punishment attached to doing something acts as a deterrent. Not a 100% effective one, because that punishment is only enforced by people, and so can be subverted.

But you can bet your ass that if attempting to steal things activated a taser built into your spine with a 100% success rate, theft would disappear.

[The Alma Mater]

Not a relevant one. Your stated belief is that if people are seen to be punished for doing a certain thing, you were talking about vandalism but I am talking about protesting, then other people will be deterred from doing that thing. You think that vandalism would stop happening if people were harshly punished for vandalism. Did you miss the weeks of cops attacking protesters with tear gas and rubber bullets and batons and cars? If the real world worked the way you say it does, that would have happened once and then there wouldn't be any more protests. Why did punishing protesters not deter them from further protest? It can't be because some piece of paper somewhere says that one of those things is legal and one isn't, that's ridiculous.

This argument is ridiculous. Yes, a punishment attached to doing something acts as a deterrent. Not a 100% effective one, because that punishment is only enforced by people, and so can be subverted.

But you can bet your ass that if attempting to steal things activated a taser built into your spine with a 100% success rate, theft would disappear.

Would it ? Priests believe with 100% certainty that they will be judged by an allknowing being and end up in an unpleasant place for all eternity if they are bad.
Did not stop them, now did it ?

[The Emerald Legion]

This argument is ridiculous. Yes, a punishment attached to doing something acts as a deterrent. Not a 100% effective one, because that punishment is only enforced by people, and so can be subverted.

But you can bet your ass that if attempting to steal things activated a taser built into your spine with a 100% success rate, theft would disappear.

Would it ? Priests believe with 100% certainty that they will be judged by an allknowing being and end up in an unpleasant place for all eternity if they are bad.
Did not stop them, now did it ?

... No. Priests believe that every single person on earth is a horrible person, and that as long as you feel bad and confess to a priest who's not allowed to tell anyone what you told him you get to go to heaven.

Waving away bad behavior is a key part of Christian faith.

[Kowani]

As such, to quote Proudhon: “My ideal of a society is one in which I would be guillotined as a Conservative.”

Guillotining people for having different political views is not my ideal of a society at all. In fact, it sounds like a dystopia.

…Yeah, that’s kinda a feature, not a bug. There’s a metric fuckton of prejudices and bigotry that even those of us who are considered progressives have subconsciously absorbed, and a perceptive set modeled through the eyes of the default economic system, as well as the general cultural worldview.

As such, to quote Proudhon: “My ideal of a society is one in which I would be guillotined as a Conservative.”

I disagree, I don’t think guillotining people for being conservative is an ideal society. If you disagree, feel free to debate

It’s figurative.

[Kragholm Free States]

Guillotining people for having different political views is not my ideal of a society at all. In fact, it sounds like a dystopia.

I disagree, I don’t think guillotining people for being conservative is an ideal society. If you disagree, feel free to debate

It’s figurative.

Right up until it isn't.

[Salus Maior]

Guillotining people for having different political views is not my ideal of a society at all. In fact, it sounds like a dystopia.

I disagree, I don’t think guillotining people for being conservative is an ideal society. If you disagree, feel free to debate

It’s figurative.

How so? What exactly are you supposed to be saying with that?

And regardless, I'd rather not live in a totalitarian society where we have to toe one specific ideological line.

[Kowani]

It’s figurative.

Right up until it isn't.

Your fearmongering aside…

It’s figurative.

How so? What exactly are you supposed to be saying with that?

…That a society which has excised all the archaic holdovers from the past is a desirable end goal.

And regardless, I'd rather not live in a totalitarian society where we have to toe one specific ideological line.

That’s literally every society, you just disagree on what the line is.

[Salus Maior]

That’s literally every society, you just disagree on what the line is.

Lol, no it's not.

Unless you think China and the USSR are literally the same as the U.S as it stands. Those are totalitarian states based on a single ideology, if I lived there I would probably be in prison for what I post here.

[Proctopeo]

That’s literally every society, you just disagree on what the line is.

Lol, no it's not.

Unless you think China and the USSR are literally the same as the U.S as it stands. Those are totalitarian states based on a single ideology, if I lived there I would probably be in prison for what I post here.

And if the US was in any way like that, being a communist would still be social suicide.

[Ifreann]

Not a relevant one. Your stated belief is that if people are seen to be punished for doing a certain thing, you were talking about vandalism but I am talking about protesting, then other people will be deterred from doing that thing. You think that vandalism would stop happening if people were harshly punished for vandalism. Did you miss the weeks of cops attacking protesters with tear gas and rubber bullets and batons and cars? If the real world worked the way you say it does, that would have happened once and then there wouldn't be any more protests. Why did punishing protesters not deter them from further protest? It can't be because some piece of paper somewhere says that one of those things is legal and one isn't, that's ridiculous.

This argument is ridiculous. Yes, a punishment attached to doing something acts as a deterrent. Not a 100% effective one, because that punishment is only enforced by people, and so can be subverted.

But you can bet your ass that if attempting to steal things activated a taser built into your spine with a 100% success rate, theft would disappear.

Running protesters over with a car is not easy to subvert yet did not deter protesters from protesting.