Washington & Jefferson Statue Get Pulled Down

[Atheris]

I mean it would be better if you lot had picked your own bloody cotton. Importing 'others' to do grim and tedious work never ends well for the importer.

The United States itself never imported slaves, IIRC. Hell, even the CSA's constitution forbade the importation of slaves from Africa, and they're the slave state.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I mean it would be better if you lot had picked your own bloody cotton. Importing 'others' to do grim and tedious work never ends well for the importer.

The United States itself never imported slaves, IIRC. Hell, even the CSA's constitution forbade the importation of slaves from Africa, and they're the slave state.

Yea we did but for only a few years after the revolution.

[Atheris]

The United States itself never imported slaves, IIRC. Hell, even the CSA's constitution forbade the importation of slaves from Africa, and they're the slave state.

Yea we did but for only a few years after the revolution.

I stand corrected.

[Hrythingland]

I mean it would be better if you lot had picked your own bloody cotton. Importing 'others' to do grim and tedious work never ends well for the importer.

The United States itself never imported slaves, IIRC. Hell, even the CSA's constitution forbade the importation of slaves from Africa, and they're the slave state.

Well yes, but more historically speaking. I don't think that kind of relationship dynamic is ever solvable really. I think giving them a portion of the West Coast post civil war or earlier might not have been such a terrible idea either.

[The Reformed American Republic]

The United States itself never imported slaves, IIRC. Hell, even the CSA's constitution forbade the importation of slaves from Africa, and they're the slave state.

Well yes, but more historically speaking. I don't think that kind of relationship dynamic is ever solvable really. I think giving them a portion of the West Coast post civil war or earlier might not have been such a terrible idea either.

Giving them their own territory would be something I would support.

[Vetalia]

Let's be honest: if the Constitution banned slavery from the outset like some historical revisionists would prefer, the CSA would've formed in 1787 and would probably still be around, because there's no way the free states were going to take them down at the time.

The slave states would have had the wealth, manpower and resources necessary to overwhelm the nascent "free states" (many of whom had only recently abolished slavery) and expand slavery to them as well. People keep thinking about the relative power of the Southern states today rather than realizing just how powerful the slave states were back then. Virginia was like California on steroids.

The three-fifths compromise was a compromise made to entice the slave states to sign on to the Constitution.

[Greed and Death]

Hamilton worked on a slave ship as a young man.
He bought and sold slaves for his in laws.
While slavery was legal in New York he rented slaves from slave owners.

Now he did join the New York Manumission society but he did so after it became clear that slavery was ending in New York. Further he used his position to argue for gradual emancipation which resulted in many slaves being sold out of state.

Some of the sources are discussed here: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... -hamilton/
Honestly too tired to go into how Hamilton was an Ass.

Hamilton was more than happy to profit from the slavery and slave labor and directly assisted in the kidnapping of people of Africa to send the new world. The main reason he never owned a slave was because by the time he was rich enough to afford owning slaves it had become clear New York was outlawing Slavery.

Peoples views mature.


How hamilton is an ass? His pamphlet on his payoff money is enough.

I do not see Hamilton's viewpoints as maturing I see him realizing he could not make money of slavery in the state of New York so he opted to side with the abolitionist.

Well Hamilton is the reason we had to get a new electoral system for President because during the presidential third election and the first contested election Hamilton tried to get the Northern to vote Adams and Pinckney and he tried to get the south to vote for Jefferson and Pinckney with the goal of putting Pinckney in office and breaking Democracy for personal gain.

He had a banking monopoly in New York for the purpose of controlling who could run for office in the state.

After Burr beat him in politics to break his bank monopoly in New York, he realized between that and getting caught trying to break democracy in 1796 his hopes of a political future were gone. Afterwards he engaged in campaign of malicious libel up to and including stating that Aaron Burr had sex with his own daughter.

[Slaver Pirates of Vaas]

After Burr beat him in politics to break his bank monopoly in New York, he realized between that and getting caught trying to break democracy in 1796 his hopes of a political future were gone. Afterwards he engaged in campaign of malicious libel up to and including stating that Aaron Burr had sex with his own daughter.

Is that why he died the way he did?

[Greed and Death]

After Burr beat him in politics to break his bank monopoly in New York, he realized between that and getting caught trying to break democracy in 1796 his hopes of a political future were gone. Afterwards he engaged in campaign of malicious libel up to and including stating that Aaron Burr had sex with his own daughter.

Is that why he died the way he did?

Burr ignored Hamilton until Hamilton started telling people he was committing incest with his daughter. That is when Burr challenged Hamilton to a duel.

[Ethel mermania]

Peoples views mature.


How hamilton is an ass? His pamphlet on his payoff money is enough.

I do not see Hamilton's viewpoints as maturing I see him realizing he could not make money of slavery in the state of New York so he opted to side with the abolitionist.

Well Hamilton is the reason we had to get a new electoral system for President because during the presidential third election and the first contested election Hamilton tried to get the Northern to vote Adams and Pinckney and he tried to get the south to vote for Jefferson and Pinckney with the goal of putting Pinckney in office and breaking Democracy for personal gain.

He had a banking monopoly in New York for the purpose of controlling who could run for office in the state.

After Burr beat him in politics to break his bank monopoly in New York, he realized between that and getting caught trying to break democracy in 1796 his hopes of a political future were gone. Afterwards he engaged in campaign of malicious libel up to and including stating that Aaron Burr had sex with his own daughter.

Source on that last one please, other than Vidal's book.

[The Black Forrest]

I do not see Hamilton's viewpoints as maturing I see him realizing he could not make money of slavery in the state of New York so he opted to side with the abolitionist.

Well Hamilton is the reason we had to get a new electoral system for President because during the presidential third election and the first contested election Hamilton tried to get the Northern to vote Adams and Pinckney and he tried to get the south to vote for Jefferson and Pinckney with the goal of putting Pinckney in office and breaking Democracy for personal gain.

He had a banking monopoly in New York for the purpose of controlling who could run for office in the state.

After Burr beat him in politics to break his bank monopoly in New York, he realized between that and getting caught trying to break democracy in 1796 his hopes of a political future were gone. Afterwards he engaged in campaign of malicious libel up to and including stating that Aaron Burr had sex with his own daughter.

Source on that last one please, other than Vidal's book.

Seconded.

[Ethel mermania]

Source on that last one please, other than Vidal's book.

Seconded.

It was a good book.

[The Black Forrest]

Seconded.

It was a good book.

Ok. I admit to not having read it. I will add to my list of things to read.

[Ifreann]

Imagine pulling down the statues of the men who created the modern nation-state that is America. You don't have to like them to think that such important people ought to be held in the public space as great men of their time.

Upon the first public reading of the American Declaration of Independence in New York, colonists pulled down a statue of King George. Wrecking shit up is as ancient an American tradition as they get.

---

It's just a shame he didn't use his massive influence to free all of the slaves.

He hoped that others would follow his example as he set his own free. Early emancipation would have just accelerated the civil war's arrival.

Others did follow his example, and further expanded the Fugitive Slave Act.

[Ethel mermania]

Imagine pulling down the statues of the men who created the modern nation-state that is America. You don't have to like them to think that such important people ought to be held in the public space as great men of their time.

Upon the first public reading of the American Declaration of Independence in New York, colonists pulled down a statue of King George. Wrecking shit up is as ancient an American tradition as they get.

---

He hoped that others would follow his example as he set his own free. Early emancipation would have just accelerated the civil war's arrival.

Others did follow his example, and further expanded the Fugitive Slave Act.

And the ordinance of 1787, They passed that as well.

[Ethel mermania]

It was a good book.

Ok. I admit to not having read it. I will add to my list of things to read.

Vidal is an excellent writer, it is well worth the read.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burr_(novel)

[Tekania]

People are flawed. This even goes for historical figures we erect monuments to. I don't think anyone should forget that these were just people who did great things but also have large character flaws that have we have become more critical over with time. I think this is a flaw in progressive concept of what these statutes actually are.

To frame the issue happening right now, I'll say this. I can see Statues of Martin Luther King Jr being torn down in 50 years from now because of the large flaws in his life as well compared to progressive ideal.

If we're only going to erect monuments to people who lack glaring character flaws, I'd suggest never erecting another monument again, because no one can honestly meet that standard.

[Salus Maior]

People are flawed. This even goes for historical figures we erect monuments to. I don't think anyone should forget that these were just people who did great things but also have large character flaws that have we have become more critical over with time. I think this is a flaw in progressive concept of what these statutes actually are.

To frame the issue happening right now, I'll say this. I can see Statues of Martin Luther King Jr being torn down in 50 years from now because of the large flaws in his life as well compared to progressive ideal.

If we're only going to erect monuments to people who lack glaring character flaws, I'd suggest never erecting another monument again, because no one can honestly meet that standard.

Good point.

[Phaenix]

If we destroy statues and monuments of every person who owned a slave or did one bad act, we're going to find ourselves with no statues to speak of.

[No State Here]

Frederick Douglass statue torn down

Bro what

[Hrythingland]

Imagine pulling down the statues of the men who created the modern nation-state that is America. You don't have to like them to think that such important people ought to be held in the public space as great men of their time.

Upon the first public reading of the American Declaration of Independence in New York, colonists pulled down a statue of King George. Wrecking shit up is as ancient an American tradition as they get.

---

He hoped that others would follow his example as he set his own free. Early emancipation would have just accelerated the civil war's arrival.

Others did follow his example, and further expanded the Fugitive Slave Act.

Yes.. they pulled down a statue of someone they had literally just fought a war against?

[Atheris]

Frederick Douglass statue torn down

Bro what

This I actually don't get.

[Dresderstan]

Frederick Douglass statue torn down

Bro what

Okay did these idiots seriously mistook him for some other Frederick, because if they didn't they are total idiots.

[Duvniask]

Frederick Douglass statue torn down

Bro what

Okay did these idiots seriously mistook him for some other Frederick, because if they didn't they are total idiots.

Who says it was BLM protestors that did it? The article explicitly mentions it could be retaliation for other statues taken down.

[Rusozak]

Okay did these idiots seriously mistook him for some other Frederick, because if they didn't they are total idiots.

Who says it was BLM protestors that did it? The article explicitly mentions it could be retaliation for other statues taken down.

That was my assumption. I didn't think for a second BLM did it.