Washington & Jefferson Statue Get Pulled Down

[Kowani]

I'm just surprised that there's criticism of the Musical that's all.

Really? I'm surprised there's not more. It's atrocious.

…How?

And don’t say “historical accuracy lol”

[Hrythingland]

Imagine pulling down the statues of the men who created the modern nation-state that is America. You don't have to like them to think that such important people ought to be held in the public space as great men of their time.

[Atheris]

Really? I'm surprised there's not more. It's atrocious.

…How?

And don’t say “historical accuracy lol”

The songs aren't terribly good, the set pieces are ugly, and there's like 2 good actors out of a set of like 40, and neither of them are lead roles.

[Kowani]

…How?

And don’t say “historical accuracy lol”

The songs aren't terribly good,

Hard disagree, Wait for It is fucking amazing.

the set pieces are ugly, and there's like 2 good actors out of a set of like 40, and neither of them are lead roles.

Eh, I never saw it live, so I’ll trust that-

[Atheris]

The songs aren't terribly good,

Hard disagree, Wait for It is fucking amazing.

To each their own.

Eh, I never saw it live, so I’ll trust that-

Do yourself a favor and don't.

[Vetalia]

It's just a shame he didn't use his massive influence to free all of the slaves.

Not plausible, even in the slightest. Back at that time, slave-holding Virginia was the equivalent of today's California except with twice the population and a much higher of the national GDP, combined with the Carolinas who were like two additional Californias on top of Virginia with similar GDP. There was no way slavery was going anywhere for a while, at least on a national level, as the Industrial Revolution that made the North into a powerhouse independent of the South was still in its early infancy at best.

People loved Washington but not that much...and don't forget the timeline of the abolition of the African slave trade was concurrent between the United States and UK. Full abolition had a lag but it wasn't that much time between the two nations.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Imagine pulling down the statues of the men who created the modern nation-state that is America. You don't have to like them to think that such important people ought to be held in the public space as great men of their time.

Indeed. No man walks on water but some do great things.

[Northern Davincia]

Washington was against slavery. He freed his slaves on Martha's death. (She freed them earlier).

It's just a shame he didn't use his massive influence to free all of the slaves.

He hoped that others would follow his example as he set his own free. Early emancipation would have just accelerated the civil war's arrival.

[Atheris]

It's just a shame he didn't use his massive influence to free all of the slaves.

He hoped that others would follow his example as he set his own free. Early emancipation would have just accelerated the civil war's arrival.

Au contraire. The Civil War would not have happened without slavery.

[Vetalia]

He hoped that others would follow his example as he set his own free. Early emancipation would have just accelerated the civil war's arrival.

Most likely very drastically, with disastrous consequences for the free states and territories. Virginia's economic and political power in the 1790s and early 1800s was arguably the most any single state has been able to wield in this country's history.

[Ethel mermania]

Washington was against slavery. He freed his slaves on Martha's death. (She freed them earlier).

It's just a shame he didn't use his massive influence to free all of the slaves.

Wasnt in his power.

[Luminesa]

He hoped that others would follow his example as he set his own free. Early emancipation would have just accelerated the civil war's arrival.

Au contraire. The Civil War would not have happened without slavery.

It probably would have for other reasons, but it would have possibly been later, due to the lack of the largest match which lit the fuse. The slavery issue, and the acceptance of slavery in particular states, largely exacerbated the split between the North and South.

[Luminesa]

…How?

And don’t say “historical accuracy lol”

The songs aren't terribly good, the set pieces are ugly, and there's like 2 good actors out of a set of like 40, and neither of them are lead roles.

I actually found the music really fun.

[Northern Davincia]

He hoped that others would follow his example as he set his own free. Early emancipation would have just accelerated the civil war's arrival.

Au contraire. The Civil War would not have happened without slavery.

The issue is that the southern states would still have fought to protect slavery.

[Atheris]

Au contraire. The Civil War would not have happened without slavery.

It probably would have for other reasons, but it would have possibly been later, due to the lack of the largest match which lit the fuse. The slavery issue, and the acceptance of slavery in particular states, largely exacerbated the split between the North and South.

Touche. Economic issues would probably still be there, but I wouldn't expect them to be about slavery more than it would be urban vs rural and industrialized vs agrarian. Maybe some of the Wild West joins the CSA?

The songs aren't terribly good, the set pieces are ugly, and there's like 2 good actors out of a set of like 40, and neither of them are lead roles.

I actually found the music really fun.

The only song I really liked was the rap at the beginning with those 4 guys and MC AH.

[Luminesa]

Washington was against slavery. He freed his slaves on Martha's death. (She freed them earlier).

It's just a shame he didn't use his massive influence to free all of the slaves.

He possibly could have, but as others have said, he wanted others to follow in his footsteps when he freed them, and then established the country as is to try and make a more agreeable method of doing so. You know, the, "Here's this great Republic, let's try and make it good, oh yeah, don't make political parties. Work together." If anything, Washington was too idealistic on that front.

There was also the problem that a massive struggle was happening to decide how much power the fed should have over states. Washington was a Federalist, so he was probably for having the ability to get rid of slavery altogether, but unfortunately he was also labeled as "King George" by people who actually disliked him, and in short he was forced to concede more power to the states.

[Luminesa]

It probably would have for other reasons, but it would have possibly been later, due to the lack of the largest match which lit the fuse. The slavery issue, and the acceptance of slavery in particular states, largely exacerbated the split between the North and South.

Touche. Economic issues would probably still be there, but I wouldn't expect them to be about slavery more than it would be urban vs rural and industrialized vs agrarian. Maybe some of the Wild West joins the CSA?

I actually found the music really fun.

The only song I really liked was the rap at the beginning with those 4 guys and MC AH.

The states v. fed issue was one about as old as the country itself, it just would have taken longer and would have taken a different guise.

Oddly enough a lot of the Wild West was people who defected from the CSA or former slaves who went on their own (a lot of cowboys were black, almost like a fourth of them if I remember my source correctly).

[The Black Forrest]

It's just a shame he didn't use his massive influence to free all of the slaves.

Wasnt in his power.

Indeed. Jefferson suggested it during the writing of the DoI. It wouldn’t have happened if he hadn’t let it go.....

[Auze]

Au contraire. The Civil War would not have happened without slavery.

It probably would have for other reasons, but it would have possibly been later, due to the lack of the largest match which lit the fuse. The slavery issue, and the acceptance of slavery in particular states, largely exacerbated the split between the North and South.

Most likely it would've been related to tariffs (see: the Nullification crisis).

[Ethel mermania]

Wasnt in his power.

Indeed. Jefferson suggested it during the writing of the DoI. It wouldn’t have happened if he hadn’t let it go.....

One war at a time.

[Salus Maior]

Washington was against slavery. He freed his slaves on Martha's death. (She freed them earlier).

It's just a shame he didn't use his massive influence to free all of the slaves.

He did try to get other Virginia landowners to oppose slavery in private communications. It wasn't successful.

[Greed and Death]

Most of the early American political figures were slaveowners and genocidal imperialists, especially the more glorified ones.

Which describes neither Hamilton or burr.

Hamilton worked on a slave ship as a young man.
He bought and sold slaves for his in laws.
While slavery was legal in New York he rented slaves from slave owners.

Now he did join the New York Manumission society but he did so after it became clear that slavery was ending in New York. Further he used his position to argue for gradual emancipation which resulted in many slaves being sold out of state.

Some of the sources are discussed here: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... -hamilton/
Honestly too tired to go into how Hamilton was an Ass.

Hamilton was more than happy to profit from the slavery and slave labor and directly assisted in the kidnapping of people of Africa to send the new world. The main reason he never owned a slave was because by the time he was rich enough to afford owning slaves it had become clear New York was outlawing Slavery.

[Ethel mermania]

Which describes neither Hamilton or burr.

Hamilton worked on a slave ship as a young man.
He bought and sold slaves for his in laws.
While slavery was legal in New York he rented slaves from slave owners.

Now he did join the New York Manumission society but he did so after it became clear that slavery was ending in New York. Further he used his position to argue for gradual emancipation which resulted in many slaves being sold out of state.

Some of the sources are discussed here: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... -hamilton/
Honestly too tired to go into how Hamilton was an Ass.

Hamilton was more than happy to profit from the slavery and slave labor and directly assisted in the kidnapping of people of Africa to send the new world. The main reason he never owned a slave was because by the time he was rich enough to afford owning slaves it had become clear New York was outlawing Slavery.

Peoples views mature.


How hamilton is an ass? His pamphlet on his payoff money is enough.

[The Two Jerseys]

It's just a shame he didn't use his massive influence to free all of the slaves.

Not plausible, even in the slightest. Back at that time, slave-holding Virginia was the equivalent of today's California except with twice the population and a much higher of the national GDP, combined with the Carolinas who were like two additional Californias on top of Virginia with similar GDP. There was no way slavery was going anywhere for a while, at least on a national level, as the Industrial Revolution that made the North into a powerhouse independent of the South was still in its early infancy at best.

People loved Washington but not that much...and don't forget the timeline of the abolition of the African slave trade was concurrent between the United States and UK. Full abolition had a lag but it wasn't that much time between the two nations.

Let's be honest: if the Constitution banned slavery from the outset like some historical revisionists would prefer, the CSA would've formed in 1787 and would probably still be around, because there's no way the free states were going to take them down at the time.

[Hrythingland]

I mean it would be better if you lot had picked your own bloody cotton. Importing 'others' to do grim and tedious work never ends well for the importer.