Washington & Jefferson Statue Get Pulled Down

[Kowani]

Prisoners should have just as much the right to vote as we should.

Why?

Prisoners should have just as much the right to vote as we should.

Why?

We have better societal outcomes.

[The Black Forrest]

Just admit you didn’t even read it. Conservative baseless accusations are boring.

Says the person who obviously didn't read the rest of what I had to say. I went into a fair amount of detail about why the story is bullshit.

Museums have been full of bullshit before now, and will likely occasionally be full of shit in the future.

The rest? You mean the comments before about DNA? As mentioned....boring. Baseless accusations. Seriously the one “study” to dispute it; suggests Jeffersons brother is the father?

Being bored. What “bullshit” have they produced?

[Xmara]

That's some big historical revisionism you've got there, bucko.

And even so, Jefferson's ideas would have a place in your narrative.

No and no

You’d be surprised. You might agree with the other side more than you think.

[The Black Forrest]

If it's a felony it also means they stop voting. Given this is largely political violence....

Prisoners should have just as much the right to vote as we should.

If they serve out their sentence; sure......

[Alcala-Cordel]

Prisoners should have just as much the right to vote as we should.

If they serve out their sentence; sure......

Before, during, and after their sentence. No one has any right to deny them the right to vote.

[No State Here]

Yes, but the term ...

Leftism is as ancient as civilization, it just existed as peasant revolts and vague ideas for a long time.

So what would you consider Caesar? Cyrus the Great? Qin Shi Huangdi? All three would not fit in the modern terms of "left" and "right," which is a modern social construct

[The Black Forrest]

If they serve out their sentence; sure......

Before, during, and after their sentence. No one has any right to deny them the right to vote.

I disagree. You go against society and are convicted; you don’t deserve all of the benefits of society.

Once the debt is paid; all rights should be restored......certain crimes would have to be evaluated though that is probably for another thread.

[Salus Maior]

That's some big historical revisionism you've got there, bucko.

And even so, Jefferson's ideas would have a place in your narrative.

No and no

Alright read the following quotes and ideas, and tell me which ones you agree with. Note these may or may not be quotes and ideas from Jefferson.

1: “Under the law of nature, all men are born free, every one comes into the world with a right to his own person, which includes the liberty of moving and using it at his own will. This is what is called personal liberty, and is given him by the author of nature, because necessary for his own sustenance.”

2: “The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all.”

3.[i]“Educate and inform the whole mass of the people… They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.”

4. “Leave no authority existing not responsible to the people.”

5. “Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’ because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.”

6. “As a nation, we began by declaring that 'all men are created equal.' We now practically read it 'all men are created equal, except negroes.' When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”

I'll let you know which ones are and are not Jeffersonian quotes. If there are any.

[Cisairse]

Prisoners should have just as much the right to vote as we should.

Why?

Because they are affected by policies being voted on.

Denying adults influence over their society is tyranny.

[South Odreria 2]

Because politicians throw black men in jail so they can’t vote

[Alcala-Cordel]

No and no

Alright read the following quotes and ideas, and tell me which ones you agree with. Note these may or may not be quotes and ideas from Jefferson.

1: “Under the law of nature, all men are born free, every one comes into the world with a right to his own person, which includes the liberty of moving and using it at his own will. This is what is called personal liberty, and is given him by the author of nature, because necessary for his own sustenance.”

2: “The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all.”

3.[i]“Educate and inform the whole mass of the people… They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.”

4. “Leave no authority existing not responsible to the people.”

5. “Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’ because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.”

6. “As a nation, we began by declaring that 'all men are created equal.' We now practically read it 'all men are created equal, except negroes.' When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”

I'll let you know which ones are and are not Jeffersonian quotes. If there are any.

1. Yes, and it contradicts slavery
2. Yes
3. Not neccessarily, but it helps.
4. Yes. If any of these are Jefferson quotes, he's a massive hypocrite
5. To an extent

[Salus Maior]

1. Yes, and it contradicts slavery
2. Yes
3. Not neccessarily, but it helps.
4. Yes. If any of these are Jefferson quotes, he's a massive hypocrite
5. To an extent

All of them are, except for the sixth, which is Lincoln.

Yes, these ideas do contradict slavery and Jefferson knew that. I've made a post about that earlier which was pretty lengthy, I don't know if you read that or not.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Because politicians throw black men in jail so they can’t vote

Politicians do not throw black men or any men in jail so they can't vote, If a person commits a crime they get a trial in a US court of law with lawyers defending them, if found guilty of a crime they go to jail, blacks, whites and whatevers.

[Alcala-Cordel]

1. Yes, and it contradicts slavery
2. Yes
3. Not neccessarily, but it helps.
4. Yes. If any of these are Jefferson quotes, he's a massive hypocrite
5. To an extent

All of them are, except for the sixth, which is Lincoln.

Yes, these ideas do contradict slavery and Jefferson knew that. I've made a post about that earlier which was pretty lengthy, I don't know if you read that or not.

I read it. The dude was a massive hypocrite.

[Neanderthaland]

Because politicians throw black men in jail so they can’t vote

Politicians do not throw black men or any men in jail so they can't vote, If a persons commits a crime they get a trial in a US court of law with lawyers defending them, if found guilty of a crime they go to jail, blacks, whites and whatevers.

"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.
"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,"

[Salus Maior]

All of them are, except for the sixth, which is Lincoln.

Yes, these ideas do contradict slavery and Jefferson knew that. I've made a post about that earlier which was pretty lengthy, I don't know if you read that or not.

I read it. The dude was a massive hypocrite.

Yes, that's an easy conclusion to come to.

Regardless, he did promote those ideas and wrote them into the foundational pieces of our country. Which would eventually lead to the abolition of slavery, as Lincoln would use Jefferson's ideas to promote equality.

[Alcala-Cordel]

I read it. The dude was a massive hypocrite.

Yes, that's an easy conclusion to come to.

Regardless, he did promote those ideas and wrote them into the foundational pieces of our country. Which would eventually lead to the abolition of slavery, as Lincoln would use Jefferson's ideas to promote equality.

Not gonna say I disagree with thaf

[Greater Miami Shores]

Politicians do not throw black men or any men in jail so they can't vote, If a persons commits a crime they get a trial in a US court of law with lawyers defending them, if found guilty of a crime they go to jail, blacks, whites and whatevers.

"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.
"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,"

Republicans, right wingers - - - - - Democrats and leftists, think differently on most issues. I am against the war protestors of the time, against the hippies, the hippies did use marijuana and heroin. I know but I chose not to go further into the subject. My point still stands today:

Politicians do not throw black men or any men in jail so they can't vote, If a persons commits a crime they get a trial in a US court of law with lawyers defending them, if found guilty of a crime they go to jail, blacks, whites and whatevers.

[Neanderthaland]

Republicans, right wingers - Democrats and leftists, think differently on most issues. I am against the war protestors of the time, against the hippies, the hippies did use marijuana and heroin. I know but I chose not to go further into the subject. My point still stands today:

Politicians do not throw black men or any men in jail so they can't vote, If a persons commits a crime they get a trial in a US court of law with lawyers defending them, if found guilty of a crime they go to jail, blacks, whites and whatevers.

That was a politician explicitly stating that that's what politicians did.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Republicans, right wingers - Democrats and leftists, think differently on most issues. I am against the war protestors of the time, against the hippies, the hippies did use marijuana and heroin. I know but I chose not to go further into the subject. My point still stands today:

Politicians do not throw black men or any men in jail so they can't vote, If a persons commits a crime they get a trial in a US court of law with lawyers defending them, if found guilty of a crime they go to jail, blacks, whites and whatevers.

That was a politician explicitly stating that that's what politicians did.

Whatever your sources say or claim, do you agree or not? If a person commits a crime they get a trial in a US court of law with lawyers defending them, if found guilty of a crime they go to jail, blacks, whites and whatevers.

[Neanderthaland]

That was a politician explicitly stating that that's what politicians did.

Whatever your sources say or claim, do you agree or not? If a person commits a crime they get a trial in a US court of law with lawyers defending them, if found guilty of a crime they go to jail, blacks, whites and whatevers.

Do you understand what I'm telling you? Your claim that politicians don't do this is factually wrong. And that's not a matter of opinion. That was a politician saying they did it.

It's not a matter of "do you agree?" They did it. They really did it. It's history. That's why those laws exist.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Whatever your sources say or claim, do you agree or not? If a person commits a crime they get a trial in a US court of law with lawyers defending them, if found guilty of a crime they go to jail, blacks, whites and whatevers.

Do you understand what I'm telling you? Your claim that politicians don't do this is factually wrong. And that's not a matter of opinion. That was a politician saying they did it.

It's not a matter of "do you agree." They did it. They really did it. It's history. That's why those laws exist.

Do you understand what I am saying: If a person commits a crime they get a trial in a US court of law with lawyers defending them, if found guilty of a crime they go to jail, blacks, whites and whatevers.

This is a fact not an opinion. Do you understand this?

[Fahran]

Because they are affected by policies being voted on.

Denying adults influence over their society is tyranny.

Denying citizens who do not respect and abide by laws, specifically laws against serious crimes such as murder, sexual assault, soliciting prostitution, selling hard drugs, etc., is not tyrannical and is a worthwhile exercise of government. Why should those who have no respect for the law and who have damaged the community continue to play a role in shaping the laws of the community?

Because politicians throw black men in jail so they can’t vote

This is perhaps true of the drug war but it doesn't really apply to people who actively prey on the community, specifically people who sell hard drugs in the black community or kill black people. If you murder someone in cold blood or sell crack to children, you don't get to pretend that your circumstances are the result of racial persecution.

[South Odreria 2]

How do you think the murderers are going to change the results of an election? Are they all going to write in Mr. Murder and make him president?

[Greater Miami Shores]

I know racism against blacks exist, but their is more acceptance than racism.