Washington & Jefferson Statue Get Pulled Down

[Pangurstan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Peasants%27_War
Most peasant revolts had goals that would be considered socialist today

Only by actual reactionaries who support feudalism.

"Peasants should control the land they farm" is definitely similar to "Workers should control the factories they work in." Opposition to feudalism wasn't necessarily socialist in nature, but ideas of equality and collective ownership of property definitely predated the French Revolution and the Enlightenment.

[The Black Forrest]

Interesting. Thanks.

One critical comment which is often ignored.

“The nature of Sally Hemings’s sexual encounters with Thomas Jefferson will never be known.”

It could have been rape. I could have been they actually loved each other. We can only speculate and most people tend to go with their views.

Well, considering he was in a place of power over her it would always be unethical.

You can apply to just about every marriage up the women's rights movements and even some after that.

[Slavakino]

Disgusting. Who ever got involved have to get send to jail

[Auze]

Well, considering he was in a place of power over her it would always be unethical.

You can apply to just about every marriage up the women's rights movements and even some after that.

And I know some radfems would argue that every heterosexual relationship is that way to this day.

[Greed and Death]

Namely?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Peasants%27_War
Most peasant revolts had goals that would be considered socialist today

Good thing we put that down.

[Salus Maior]

Well, considering he was in a place of power over her it would always be unethical.

You can apply to just about every marriage up the women's rights movements and even some after that.

Being a wife is not exactly the same thing as being a slave; being legally property. She most likely would not have been able to say no.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Only by actual reactionaries who support feudalism.

"Peasants should control the land they farm" is definitely similar to "Workers should control the factories they work in." Opposition to feudalism wasn't necessarily socialist in nature, but ideas of equality and collective ownership of property definitely predated the French Revolution and the Enlightenment.

Also sounds like the subsistence farmers Jefferson lauded.

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Disgusting. Who ever got involved have to get send to jail

If socialism ever comes to America, I hope it is Titoism that has some respect for our founding fathers.

[Saiwania]

The rumor is that this law protecting public monuments is starting to get enforced and that the statue knocking spree is coming to an end soon. Trump says for people to beware- it could mean up to 10 years imprisonment.

[Fahran]

The rumor is that this law protecting public monuments is starting to get enforced and that the statue knocking spree is coming to an end soon. Trump says for people to beware- it could mean up to 10 years imprisonment.

That seems a bit excessive. I do think assigning police guards to threatened monuments, imposing fines, community service, and short prison sentences proportionate to traditional vandalism, and simply taking some action is sufficient.

[The Reformed American Republic]

The rumor is that this law protecting public monuments is starting to get enforced and that the statue knocking spree is coming to an end soon. Trump says for people to beware- it could mean up to 10 years imprisonment.

That seems a bit excessive. I do think assigning police guards to threatened monuments, imposing fines, community service, and short prison sentences proportionate to traditional vandalism, and simply taking some action is sufficient.

Any crackdown will be enough.

[Slavakino]

Disgusting. Who ever got involved have to get send to jail

If socialism ever comes to America, I hope it is Titoism that has some respect for our founding fathers.

Yes. Titoism has respect for its founding leaders and is patriotic about who they are

[Greed and Death]

The rumor is that this law protecting public monuments is starting to get enforced and that the statue knocking spree is coming to an end soon. Trump says for people to beware- it could mean up to 10 years imprisonment.

That seems a bit excessive. I do think assigning police guards to threatened monuments, imposing fines, community service, and short prison sentences proportionate to traditional vandalism, and simply taking some action is sufficient.

10 years is pretty reasonable. You got to let people know this sort of stuff is unacceptable. So making an example out of a few thousand of them in swing states seems to be the way to do it.

[Salus Maior]

"Peasants should control the land they farm" is definitely similar to "Workers should control the factories they work in." Opposition to feudalism wasn't necessarily socialist in nature, but ideas of equality and collective ownership of property definitely predated the French Revolution and the Enlightenment.

Also sounds like the subsistence farmers Jefferson lauded.

---

Disgusting. Who ever got involved have to get send to jail

If socialism ever comes to America, I hope it is Titoism that has some respect for our founding fathers.

IIRC, the Jeffersonian/Washingtonian sentiment for the agrarian life was based in the idea that only farmers were truly free. As they could provide fully for themselves off of the land without reliance on the state.

Granted, that is extremely romantic but it's what a lot of them thought.

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

Anyone you'd like ? Just make the monument fair. Did someone make beautiful films, but did he also rape kids ? Make a statue that shows both.

I don't think we should make statues of people raping children... And laying the foundations of a nation is probably a bit more worthy of praise from the citizens of said nation than making beautiful films.

People with a significant part in certain things should be remembered (not necessarily honored), but not necessarily with a statue. I also do not see the point in putting the monument/statue/plaque/whatever outside of where the significant action took place or a museum/place of learning.

To be honest, this worldview seems to lend itself not only to what amounts to a puritanical secular theology but to the most abhorrent sort of philistinism. That makes it doubly horrid.

I am not against art; I make art myself. I can show pictures if you like (except one portrait which I am legally required to not post online).

[Alcala-Cordel]

o7 to anyone who tears down one of these monuments, major respect

[The Emerald Legion]

Because museums have never been wrong or built to perpetuate untruthful things before.

Just admit you didn’t even read it. Conservative baseless accusations are boring.

Says the person who obviously didn't read the rest of what I had to say. I went into a fair amount of detail about why the story is bullshit.

Museums have been full of bullshit before now, and will likely occasionally be full of shit in the future.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Movements that had some form of socialist ideas have been around for a lot longer than the French Revolution.

Yes, but the term ...

The political terms Left and Right were coined during the French Revolution (1789–1799), referring to the seating arrangement in the French Estates General: those who sat on the left generally opposed the monarchy and supported the revolution, including the creation of a republic and secularization,[5] while those on the right were supportive of the traditional institutions of the Old Regime. Use of the term Left became more prominent after the restoration of the French monarchy in 1815 when it was applied to the "Independents".[6] The word "wing" was appended to Left and Right in the late 19th century, usually with disparaging intent and "left-wing" was applied to those who were unorthodox in their religious or political views.

Leftism is as ancient as civilization, it just existed as peasant revolts and vague ideas for a long time.

[The Emerald Legion]

That seems a bit excessive. I do think assigning police guards to threatened monuments, imposing fines, community service, and short prison sentences proportionate to traditional vandalism, and simply taking some action is sufficient.

10 years is pretty reasonable. You got to let people know this sort of stuff is unacceptable. So making an example out of a few thousand of them in swing states seems to be the way to do it.

If it's a felony it also means they stop voting. Given this is largely political violence....

[Alcala-Cordel]

10 years is pretty reasonable. You got to let people know this sort of stuff is unacceptable. So making an example out of a few thousand of them in swing states seems to be the way to do it.

If it's a felony it also means they stop voting. Given this is largely political violence....

Prisoners should have just as much the right to vote as we should.

[Fahran]

Prisoners should have just as much the right to vote as we should.

Why?

[Salus Maior]

Yes, but the term ...

Leftism is as ancient as civilization, it just existed as peasant revolts and vague ideas for a long time.

That's some big historical revisionism you've got there, bucko.

And even so, Jefferson's ideas would have a place in your narrative.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Prisoners should have just as much the right to vote as we should.

Why?

Prisoners should have just as much the right to vote as we should.

Why?

They're already being punished for their crimes by being locked up, there's no reason to deny them democracy as well. It's undemocratic and unneccessary.

[The Emerald Legion]

If it's a felony it also means they stop voting. Given this is largely political violence....

Prisoners should have just as much the right to vote as we should.

Why?

[Alcala-Cordel]

Leftism is as ancient as civilization, it just existed as peasant revolts and vague ideas for a long time.

That's some big historical revisionism you've got there, bucko.

And even so, Jefferson's ideas would have a place in your narrative.

No and no

[The Black Forrest]

You can apply to just about every marriage up the women's rights movements and even some after that.

Being a wife is not exactly the same thing as being a slave; being legally property. She most likely would not have been able to say no.

Still.....an assumption. Unless something is found; we will most likely never know the details of their relationship.