I don't know if escalation like that is necessary...
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by Ethel mermania » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:40 am
Ifreann wrote:Ethel mermania wrote:
Indeed, because you dont understand what I am saying.
Where did I say gassing and shooting protesters was ok? If you understood what I wrote you would have seen where I said peaceful protest is a right. But none of that penetrates your fantasyland based world view. So no matter what I say you respond with the same clear misunderstanding time and time again, Oh well.
I cannot believe you don't understand what I'm saying. If punishing people is a deterrent, and you clearly believe it is since you have been calling for harsh punishments for vandalism in order to prevent future vandalism, then it should be a deterrent regardless of your opinions on either the punishment or the action being punished. Do you understand? It doesn't make sense that for this deterrent effect to happen that the action being punished must be illegal and the punishment must be something you personally approve of. How could it possibly make any difference?
I don't care if you personally approve of the NYPD running protesters over. That has literally nothing to do with what I am saying. What I am saying is that if your stated beliefs are correct then the NYPD running protesters over should have deterred people from protesting. But it didn't. Do you even understand that this means that you must be wrong? Reality contradicts your beliefs and all you can say in response is "Well I don't like gassing people, blah blah fantasyland".
by The Emerald Legion » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:40 am
by Salus Maior » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:40 am
by Cisairse » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:43 am
The Black Forrest wrote:Cisairse wrote:
It's been ongoing for several centuries.
Err not sure what you mean by that.
If you mean removing them because they were slave owners? You will have to prove the effort from 1700s-1900s
The old stuff are collectables now so not really a discussion.
As to coinage and greenbacks. Jefferson was setup in 1928 and 1938 for the 2 dollar and the nickel.
Washington was setup in 1868/69 and 1928 for the dollar and the quarter.
by Aeritai » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:51 am
Servilis wrote:Salus Maior wrote:
Imagine saying a TradCath isn't a moralist.
That being said, I'm not responsible for the deaths of millions of people. So at least I've got that going for me.
No, of course you aren't responsible for millions of deaths.
You're responsible for *BILLIONS* of deaths.
Please look up history.
And also, know your fucking place, I'm not an AuthCom, you uneducated dog.
by Farnhamia » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:53 am
Servilis wrote:Salus Maior wrote:
Imagine saying a TradCath isn't a moralist.
That being said, I'm not responsible for the deaths of millions of people. So at least I've got that going for me.
No, of course you aren't responsible for millions of deaths.
You're responsible for *BILLIONS* of deaths.
Please look up history.
And also, know your fucking place, I'm not an AuthCom, you uneducated dog.
by Northern Davincia » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:36 pm
Ifreann wrote:Washington wasn't the only officer in the army.
Quite the opposite. I'm suggesting that one reason he was given such a prestigious position as commander in chief was to get him to chip in to the war effort. War isn't cheap, and Washington was rich as hell. Because of all the slavery.
Napoleon wasn't fighting on the front lines in America.
That is not true. Washington was elected by the electoral college, not by popular vote, and what voting their was was highly restricted.
And so when you're talking about how beloved Washington was, we can see that what you're doing is drawing a circle around all the people who supported Washington and excluding everyone who didn't.
Need I remind you that the point being disputed is the supposedly widespread popularity of Washington? I'm surprised that you seem to find it so hard to understand that many people would not have approved of being subjected to taxation by Washington's government. Though only a little surprised, your convictions are proving highly flexible.
The Declaration of Independence is modernist now? I suppose that follows. But why do you worship Washington when you hate the principles you believe he fought for?
Washington, being an ordinary man, helped win independence for America but failed to bring about the full realisation of its founding principles. Doesn't sound like someone to be worshipped to me.
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."
by The Black Forrest » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:41 pm
Cisairse wrote:The Black Forrest wrote:
Err not sure what you mean by that.
If you mean removing them because they were slave owners? You will have to prove the effort from 1700s-1900s
The old stuff are collectables now so not really a discussion.
As to coinage and greenbacks. Jefferson was setup in 1928 and 1938 for the 2 dollar and the nickel.
Washington was setup in 1868/69 and 1928 for the dollar and the quarter.
I mean opposition to money.
What did you mean?
by Tarsonis » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:55 pm
Servilis wrote:Salus Maior wrote:
Imagine saying a TradCath isn't a moralist.
That being said, I'm not responsible for the deaths of millions of people. So at least I've got that going for me.
No, of course you aren't responsible for millions of deaths.
You're responsible for *BILLIONS* of deaths.
Please look up history.
And also, know your fucking place, I'm not an AuthCom, you uneducated dog.
by The Two Jerseys » Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:59 pm
Northern Davincia wrote:Ifreann wrote:Quite the opposite. I'm suggesting that one reason he was given such a prestigious position as commander in chief was to get him to chip in to the war effort. War isn't cheap, and Washington was rich as hell. Because of all the slavery.
Given how lucrative the tobacco industry was, I am willing to bet that Washington would still have been very wealthy if his laborers were freedmen.
by Salus Maior » Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:59 pm
The Two Jerseys wrote:Northern Davincia wrote:Given how lucrative the tobacco industry was, I am willing to bet that Washington would still have been very wealthy if his laborers were freedmen.
Probably even wealthier, Mount Vernon operated at a loss because Washington spent a good chunk of change caring for the slaves who were unfit to work.
by Aeritai » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:10 pm
by Greater Miami Shores » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:33 pm
Aeritai wrote:https://youtu.be/zUr3gVNRJqc
Two of Jefferson's descendants explain why they want the Jefferson Memorial to come down any thoughts?
by South Odreria 2 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:36 pm
Valrifell wrote:
Disregard whatever this poster says
by Greater Miami Shores » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:39 pm
South Odreria 2 wrote:We honor jefferson because he did a lot of drugs.
by The Alma Mater » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:48 pm
Greater Miami Shores wrote:Aeritai wrote:https://youtu.be/zUr3gVNRJqc
Two of Jefferson's descendants explain why they want the Jefferson Memorial to come down any thoughts?
Slavery was wrong, cruel, common and legal in those days. But We don't honor Thomas Jefferson for owning slaves. We honor Thomas Jefferson as a US President.
by Greater Miami Shores » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:50 pm
The Alma Mater wrote:Greater Miami Shores wrote:Slavery was wrong, cruel, common and legal in those days. But We don't honor Thomas Jefferson for owning slaves. We honor Thomas Jefferson as a US President.
To use the tiresome Godwin: so we can build a statue to Hitler to honor him for the Autobahn, Volkswagen and animal welfare laws ?
by The Alma Mater » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:52 pm
by The Black Forrest » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:53 pm
Aeritai wrote:https://youtu.be/zUr3gVNRJqc
Two of Jefferson's descendants explain why they want the Jefferson Memorial to come down any thoughts?
by Tarsonis » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:59 pm
The Alma Mater wrote:Greater Miami Shores wrote:Slavery was wrong, cruel, common and legal in those days. But We don't honor Thomas Jefferson for owning slaves. We honor Thomas Jefferson as a US President.
To use the tiresome Godwin: so we can build a statue to Hitler to honor him for the Autobahn, Volkswagen and animal welfare laws* ?
* Yes, Hitler is the guy who made it illegal to club a kitten until it dies. Hitler.
by Greater Miami Shores » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:01 am
Tarsonis wrote:The Alma Mater wrote:
To use the tiresome Godwin: so we can build a statue to Hitler to honor him for the Autobahn, Volkswagen and animal welfare laws* ?
* Yes, Hitler is the guy who made it illegal to club a kitten until it dies. Hitler.
The fundamental difference is that Jefferson didn't create the system of slavery. It was established and culturally engrained well before he was born, and he was raised in a world that proclaimed it to be correct. The abolitionist movement was very much in its infancy during the revolution.
Hitler on the other hand was personally responsible for literally every horrible thing the Nazis ever did.
by Czechostan » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:02 am
Aeritai wrote:https://youtu.be/zUr3gVNRJqc
Two of Jefferson's descendants explain why they want the Jefferson Memorial to come down any thoughts?
I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.
by South Odreria 2 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:03 am
Valrifell wrote:
Disregard whatever this poster says
by Tarsonis » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:03 am
Czechostan wrote:Aeritai wrote:https://youtu.be/zUr3gVNRJqc
Two of Jefferson's descendants explain why they want the Jefferson Memorial to come down any thoughts?
Ultimately, it should be up to the residents of DC to decide whether the memorial is worth keeping. Personally, I think it's a beautiful piece of architecture and should be kept.
Funnily enough, there's a quote of Jefferson's inscribed at the Memorial that's surprisingly relevant:I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.
As it is with laws and institutions, so is it with memorials and statues.
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