Washington & Jefferson Statue Get Pulled Down

[Fedel]

Imagine saying a TradCath isn't a moralist.

That being said, I'm not responsible for the deaths of millions of people. So at least I've got that going for me.

And also, know your fucking place, I'm not an AuthCom, you uneducated dog.

I don't know if escalation like that is necessary...

[Ethel mermania]

Indeed, because you dont understand what I am saying.

Where did I say gassing and shooting protesters was ok? If you understood what I wrote you would have seen where I said peaceful protest is a right. But none of that penetrates your fantasyland based world view. So no matter what I say you respond with the same clear misunderstanding time and time again, Oh well.

I cannot believe you don't understand what I'm saying. If punishing people is a deterrent, and you clearly believe it is since you have been calling for harsh punishments for vandalism in order to prevent future vandalism, then it should be a deterrent regardless of your opinions on either the punishment or the action being punished. Do you understand? It doesn't make sense that for this deterrent effect to happen that the action being punished must be illegal and the punishment must be something you personally approve of. How could it possibly make any difference?

I don't care if you personally approve of the NYPD running protesters over. That has literally nothing to do with what I am saying. What I am saying is that if your stated beliefs are correct then the NYPD running protesters over should have deterred people from protesting. But it didn't. Do you even understand that this means that you must be wrong? Reality contradicts your beliefs and all you can say in response is "Well I don't like gassing people, blah blah fantasyland".

If they were actually being punished, you may have a point. PD was told not to hinder them, and we got lots of vandalism

[The Emerald Legion]

Of course it is. Were 100% of protestors run over with a car?

The protesters in front of the car were.

And 100% of Criminals who are arrested are arrested. But that isn't all criminals.

[Salus Maior]

And also, know your fucking place, I'm not an AuthCom, you uneducated dog.

I don't know if escalation like that is necessary...

It's not. I don't even know this person.

[Cisairse]

It's been ongoing for several centuries.

Err not sure what you mean by that.

If you mean removing them because they were slave owners? You will have to prove the effort from 1700s-1900s

The old stuff are collectables now so not really a discussion.

As to coinage and greenbacks. Jefferson was setup in 1928 and 1938 for the 2 dollar and the nickel.

Washington was setup in 1868/69 and 1928 for the dollar and the quarter.

I mean opposition to money.

What did you mean?

[Aeritai]

Imagine saying a TradCath isn't a moralist.

That being said, I'm not responsible for the deaths of millions of people. So at least I've got that going for me.

No, of course you aren't responsible for millions of deaths.
You're responsible for *BILLIONS* of deaths.

Please look up history.

And also, know your fucking place, I'm not an AuthCom, you uneducated dog.

Was that really necessary?

[Farnhamia]

Imagine saying a TradCath isn't a moralist.

That being said, I'm not responsible for the deaths of millions of people. So at least I've got that going for me.

No, of course you aren't responsible for millions of deaths.
You're responsible for *BILLIONS* of deaths.

Please look up history.

And also, know your fucking place, I'm not an AuthCom, you uneducated dog.

*** Warned for flaming ***

You should look up the Rules.

[Northern Davincia]

Washington wasn't the only officer in the army.

So?

Quite the opposite. I'm suggesting that one reason he was given such a prestigious position as commander in chief was to get him to chip in to the war effort. War isn't cheap, and Washington was rich as hell. Because of all the slavery.

Given how lucrative the tobacco industry was, I am willing to bet that Washington would still have been very wealthy if his laborers were freedmen.

Napoleon wasn't fighting on the front lines in America.

No, but he is representative of the French opinion of Washington considering France had a ten-day requiem for him.

That is not true. Washington was elected by the electoral college, not by popular vote, and what voting their was was highly restricted.

Surely you know how the Electoral College works, as it still requires the people to actually vote. Washington's victory was overwhelming in both categories.

And so when you're talking about how beloved Washington was, we can see that what you're doing is drawing a circle around all the people who supported Washington and excluding everyone who didn't.

The circle of everyone who disliked Washington at the time was quite small, if we are to count American citizens. You are exaggerating the dislike of him.

Need I remind you that the point being disputed is the supposedly widespread popularity of Washington? I'm surprised that you seem to find it so hard to understand that many people would not have approved of being subjected to taxation by Washington's government. Though only a little surprised, your convictions are proving highly flexible.

The Whiskey Rebellion wasn't about Washington's popularity. State officials led him to believe the tax on whiskey was a good idea, although it hurt small producers of whiskey more than large producers. If it were about Washington himself, the rebels would not have surrendered to him. He negotiated for peace and pardoned the only rebels who were caught.

The Declaration of Independence is modernist now? I suppose that follows. But why do you worship Washington when you hate the principles you believe he fought for?

The Declaration of Independence had no legal power.

Washington, being an ordinary man, helped win independence for America but failed to bring about the full realisation of its founding principles. Doesn't sound like someone to be worshipped to me.

He came further than anyone else besides Lincoln. Indeed, the Bill of Rights is a huge victory for the nation's founding principles, and they had actual legal weight.

[The Black Forrest]

Err not sure what you mean by that.

If you mean removing them because they were slave owners? You will have to prove the effort from 1700s-1900s

The old stuff are collectables now so not really a discussion.

As to coinage and greenbacks. Jefferson was setup in 1928 and 1938 for the 2 dollar and the nickel.

Washington was setup in 1868/69 and 1928 for the dollar and the quarter.

I mean opposition to money.

What did you mean?

Statues of Washington and Jefferson are a bad thing. Isn’t it worse to seem them all the time on money?

[Tarsonis]

Imagine saying a TradCath isn't a moralist.

That being said, I'm not responsible for the deaths of millions of people. So at least I've got that going for me.

No, of course you aren't responsible for millions of deaths.
You're responsible for *BILLIONS* of deaths.

Please look up history.

And also, know your fucking place, I'm not an AuthCom, you uneducated dog.

After reading your so called "Works," I can safely say that you don't have grounds to make this quip.

[The Two Jerseys]

Quite the opposite. I'm suggesting that one reason he was given such a prestigious position as commander in chief was to get him to chip in to the war effort. War isn't cheap, and Washington was rich as hell. Because of all the slavery.

Given how lucrative the tobacco industry was, I am willing to bet that Washington would still have been very wealthy if his laborers were freedmen.

Probably even wealthier, Mount Vernon operated at a loss because Washington spent a good chunk of change caring for the slaves who were unfit to work.

[Salus Maior]

Given how lucrative the tobacco industry was, I am willing to bet that Washington would still have been very wealthy if his laborers were freedmen.

Probably even wealthier, Mount Vernon operated at a loss because Washington spent a good chunk of change caring for the slaves who were unfit to work.

Well, not all of the slaves were his to free.

[Aeritai]

https://youtu.be/zUr3gVNRJqc

Two of Jefferson's descendants explain why they want the Jefferson Memorial to come down any thoughts?

[Greater Miami Shores]

https://youtu.be/zUr3gVNRJqc

Two of Jefferson's descendants explain why they want the Jefferson Memorial to come down any thoughts?

Slavery was wrong, cruel, common and legal in those days. But We don't honor Thomas Jefferson for owning slaves. We honor Thomas Jefferson as a US President.

[South Odreria 2]

We honor jefferson because he did a lot of drugs.

[Greater Miami Shores]

We honor jefferson because he did a lot of drugs.

Perhaps you do, I don't.

[The Alma Mater]

https://youtu.be/zUr3gVNRJqc

Two of Jefferson's descendants explain why they want the Jefferson Memorial to come down any thoughts?

Slavery was wrong, cruel, common and legal in those days. But We don't honor Thomas Jefferson for owning slaves. We honor Thomas Jefferson as a US President.

To use the tiresome Godwin: so we can build a statue to Hitler to honor him for the Autobahn, Volkswagen and animal welfare laws* ?

* Yes, Hitler is the guy who made it illegal to club a kitten until it dies. Hitler.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Slavery was wrong, cruel, common and legal in those days. But We don't honor Thomas Jefferson for owning slaves. We honor Thomas Jefferson as a US President.

To use the tiresome Godwin: so we can build a statue to Hitler to honor him for the Autobahn, Volkswagen and animal welfare laws ?

The difference is The US is a Democracy with all its merits and faults. The US Is not Hitler's Nazi Germany.

[The Alma Mater]

To use the tiresome Godwin: so we can build a statue to Hitler to honor him for the Autobahn, Volkswagen and animal welfare laws ?

The difference is The US is a Democracy with all its merits and faults. The US Is not Hitler's Nazi Germany.

How is that relevant ? You said one can build a statue to honour a specific aspect of a person; regardless of other things he or she did.

[The Black Forrest]

https://youtu.be/zUr3gVNRJqc

Two of Jefferson's descendants explain why they want the Jefferson Memorial to come down any thoughts?

Having seen it.....it would be a shame. It's a nice structure. It has a statue and a few of his writtings on the wall. The DoI, I believe his comments on religious freedom and some of his letters......it was a long time ago so I am not sure.....

[Tarsonis]

Slavery was wrong, cruel, common and legal in those days. But We don't honor Thomas Jefferson for owning slaves. We honor Thomas Jefferson as a US President.

To use the tiresome Godwin: so we can build a statue to Hitler to honor him for the Autobahn, Volkswagen and animal welfare laws* ?

* Yes, Hitler is the guy who made it illegal to club a kitten until it dies. Hitler.

The fundamental difference is that Jefferson didn't create the system of slavery. It was established and culturally engrained well before he was born, and he was raised in a world that proclaimed it to be correct. The abolitionist movement was very much in its infancy during the revolution.

Hitler on the other hand was personally responsible for literally every horrible thing the Nazis ever did.

[Greater Miami Shores]

To use the tiresome Godwin: so we can build a statue to Hitler to honor him for the Autobahn, Volkswagen and animal welfare laws* ?

* Yes, Hitler is the guy who made it illegal to club a kitten until it dies. Hitler.

The fundamental difference is that Jefferson didn't create the system of slavery. It was established and culturally engrained well before he was born, and he was raised in a world that proclaimed it to be correct. The abolitionist movement was very much in its infancy during the revolution.
Hitler on the other hand was personally responsible for literally every horrible thing the Nazis ever did.

Excellent Post Tarsonis. Not a good post an excellent Post.

[Czechostan]

https://youtu.be/zUr3gVNRJqc

Two of Jefferson's descendants explain why they want the Jefferson Memorial to come down any thoughts?

Ultimately, it should be up to the residents of DC to decide whether the memorial is worth keeping. Personally, I think it's a beautiful piece of architecture and should be kept.

Funnily enough, there's a quote of Jefferson's inscribed at the Memorial that's surprisingly relevant:

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.

As it is with laws and institutions, so is it with memorials and statues.

[South Odreria 2]

We honor jefferson because he did a lot of drugs.

Perhaps you do, I don't.

Jefferson is cancelled because of his prodigious consumption of psychedelic drugs? Sad.

[Tarsonis]

https://youtu.be/zUr3gVNRJqc

Two of Jefferson's descendants explain why they want the Jefferson Memorial to come down any thoughts?

Ultimately, it should be up to the residents of DC to decide whether the memorial is worth keeping. Personally, I think it's a beautiful piece of architecture and should be kept.

Funnily enough, there's a quote of Jefferson's inscribed at the Memorial that's surprisingly relevant:

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.

As it is with laws and institutions, so is it with memorials and statues.

That's not a leap that's inherently obvious.