Washington & Jefferson Statue Get Pulled Down

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Conventionally? We arrest those who engage in vandalism and who strive to subvert policy and culture through less than legal means. And that should have been the initial response to iconoclasms and desecrations. We're hindered somewhat by the ill-discipline or cowardice of the police and the complicity of local officials in many places.

As I said before, tearing down a statue of a founding father should be punished by 15 years in prison. It would stop this shit quick if a bunch of people were arrested and sent to prison over this.

Since burning the flag is constitutional, I doubt your special protection for certain statues on patriotic grounds would survive the courts.

[Northern Davincia]

As I said before, tearing down a statue of a founding father should be punished by 15 years in prison. It would stop this shit quick if a bunch of people were arrested and sent to prison over this.

Since burning the flag is constitutional, I doubt your special protection for certain statues on patriotic grounds would survive the courts.

The punishment should fit the crime, so it is hard for me to rationalize a 15-year sentence for this kind of vandalism.

[The Reformed American Republic]

As I said before, tearing down a statue of a founding father should be punished by 15 years in prison. It would stop this shit quick if a bunch of people were arrested and sent to prison over this.

Since burning the flag is constitutional, I doubt your special protection for certain statues on patriotic grounds would survive the courts.

One's destruction of a piece of cloth you personally own, while the latter is destruction of public property. I see no constitutional violation with pushing harsh punishments for such an offense. You might not like it, but that's not my problem.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Since burning the flag is constitutional, I doubt your special protection for certain statues on patriotic grounds would survive the courts.

The punishment should fit the crime, so it is hard for me to rationalize a 15-year sentence for this kind of vandalism.

Shoot for the stars, and I might hit the moon.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Since burning the flag is constitutional, I doubt your special protection for certain statues on patriotic grounds would survive the courts.

One's destruction of a piece of cloth you personally own, while the latter is destruction of public property. I see no constitutional violation with pushing harsh punishments for such an offense. You might not like it, but that's not my problem.

"a statue of a founding father" is where the problem lies. Unless you're going to provide equal protection to ANY public statue, your law is going to die.

[Rossiyaana]

Since burning the flag is constitutional, I doubt your special protection for certain statues on patriotic grounds would survive the courts.

One's destruction of a piece of cloth you personally own, while the latter is destruction of public property. I see no constitutional violation with pushing harsh punishments for such an offense. You might not like it, but that's not my problem.

Eighth Amendment;

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

[The Reformed American Republic]

One's destruction of a piece of cloth you personally own, while the latter is destruction of public property. I see no constitutional violation with pushing harsh punishments for such an offense. You might not like it, but that's not my problem.

Eighth Amendment;

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

I read that amendment and I know the constitution. It is hardly cruel or unusual. It's not like you are being vivisected while still alive or being crucified or are being tortured.

[The Alma Mater]

Since burning the flag is constitutional, I doubt your special protection for certain statues on patriotic grounds would survive the courts.

One's destruction of a piece of cloth you personally own, while the latter is destruction of public property. I see no constitutional violation with pushing harsh punishments for such an offense. You might not like it, but that's not my problem.

Just for clarity: if for some reason there would be statues of Stalin or Baphomet on public squares, would destroying those also warrant harsh punishment ?

[Rossiyaana]

Eighth Amendment;

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

I read that amendment and I know the constitution. It is hardly cruel or unusual. It's not like you are being vivisected while still alive or being crucified or are being tortured.

Well... no. But 15 years in prison for vandalizing a statue is pretty hefty.

[Northern Davincia]

One's destruction of a piece of cloth you personally own, while the latter is destruction of public property. I see no constitutional violation with pushing harsh punishments for such an offense. You might not like it, but that's not my problem.

Just for clarity: if for some reason there would be statues of Stalin or Baphomet on public squares, would destroying those also warrant harsh punishment ?

No.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I read that amendment and I know the constitution. It is hardly cruel or unusual. It's not like you are being vivisected while still alive or being crucified or are being tortured.

Well... no. But 15 years in prison for vandalizing a statue is pretty hefty.

The Eighth Amendment does not ban hefty punishments. It bans grotesque medieval-type punishments and to an extent harsh prison conditions. A government cannot have you crucified, boiled alive, or starved to death in a dungeon if you're a citizen of the U.S..

[Rossiyaana]

Well... no. But 15 years in prison for vandalizing a statue is pretty hefty.

The Eighth Amendment does not ban hefty punishments. It bans grotesque medieval-type punishments and to an extent harsh prison conditions. I cannot have you crucified, boiled alive, or starved in a dungeon if you're a citizen of the U.S..

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/cruel_a ... punishment

Solem v. Helm "the Supreme Court held that a sentence may not be disproportionate to the crime committed, regardless of whether the crime is a felony or a misdemeanor."

[Northern Davincia]

The punishment should fit the crime, so it is hard for me to rationalize a 15-year sentence for this kind of vandalism.

Shoot for the stars, and I might hit the moon.

Much as we all love the iconic Moon Man, I must inquire as to what kind of justice is served in a lengthy sentence for vandalism.

[The Alma Mater]

I read that amendment and I know the constitution. It is hardly cruel or unusual. It's not like you are being vivisected while still alive or being crucified or are being tortured.

Well... no. But 15 years in prison for vandalizing a statue is pretty hefty.

There are.people in gitmo for the crime.of being in gitmo.
Yes, I am serious - a significant amount of people there is completely innocent, has been declared so by all intelligence agencies, but is not being released because the government has decided not to release people from gitmo.

So compared to that it is not excessive. At least the vandals did something.

[The Reformed American Republic]

The Eighth Amendment does not ban hefty punishments. It bans grotesque medieval-type punishments and to an extent harsh prison conditions. I cannot have you crucified, boiled alive, or starved in a dungeon if you're a citizen of the U.S..

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/cruel_a ... punishment

Solem v. Helm "the Supreme Court held that a sentence may not be disproportionate to the crime committed, regardless of whether the crime is a felony or a misdemeanor."

Your link seems to show that was partially overturned.

[Washington Resistance Army]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/cruel_a ... punishment

Solem v. Helm "the Supreme Court held that a sentence may not be disproportionate to the crime committed, regardless of whether the crime is a felony or a misdemeanor."

Your link seems to show that was partially overturned.

It also doesn't lay out criteria for what is disproportionate as far as I can tell. 15 years is certainly a sentence, but I wouldn't really call it disproportionate compared to some other things we have on the books.

[Rossiyaana]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/cruel_a ... punishment

Solem v. Helm "the Supreme Court held that a sentence may not be disproportionate to the crime committed, regardless of whether the crime is a felony or a misdemeanor."

Your link seems to show that was partially overturned.

Key word: partially. The other cases listed there affirm that "that in extreme cases, a disproportionate sentence could violate the Eighth Amendment."

Your link seems to show that was partially overturned.

It also doesn't lay out criteria for what is disproportionate as far as I can tell. 15 years is certainly a sentence, but I wouldn't really call it disproportionate compared to some other things we have on the books.

15 years is massively out of proportion for vandalism which I believe has a 1 year maximum.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Your link seems to show that was partially overturned.

Key word: partially. The other cases listed there affirm that "that in extreme cases, a disproportionate sentence could violate the Eighth Amendment."

It would be up to the judge of course. It's still up to date if this would qualify, but there is only one way to find out.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Shoot for the stars, and I might hit the moon.

Much as we all love the iconic Moon Man, I must inquire as to what kind of justice is served in a lengthy sentence for vandalism.

A form of justice that crushes communism and communist agitators. I know you do have sympathy for such a position yourself.

[Northern Davincia]

Much as we all love the iconic Moon Man, I must inquire as to what kind of justice is served in a lengthy sentence for vandalism.

A form of justice that crushes communism and communist agitators. I know you do have sympathy for such a position yourself.

Indeed I do, but I feel as though unlawfully tearing down a statue should carry a sentence of two or three years. The point is still made, and the punishment fits better.

[The Reformed American Republic]

A form of justice that crushes communism and communist agitators. I know you do have sympathy for such a position yourself.

Indeed I do, but I feel as though unlawfully tearing down a statue should carry a sentence of two or three years. The point is still made, and the punishment fits better.

Again, I'm shooting for the stars, so the moon may be hit. It would probably be closer to what you want in the end.

[The Alma Mater]

Just for clarity: if for some reason there would be statues of Stalin or Baphomet on public squares, would destroying those also warrant harsh punishment ?

No.

Why not ?

[Washington Resistance Army]

15 years is massively out of proportion for vandalism which I believe has a 1 year maximum.

Given the extreme backlash to all this I'd feel pretty comfortable saying a not insignificant amount of people view it as worse than petty vandalism.

[The Reformed American Republic]

One's destruction of a piece of cloth you personally own, while the latter is destruction of public property. I see no constitutional violation with pushing harsh punishments for such an offense. You might not like it, but that's not my problem.

"a statue of a founding father" is where the problem lies. Unless you're going to provide equal protection to ANY public statue, your law is going to die.

Equal protection is for people charged with a crime though.

[Rossiyaana]

15 years is massively out of proportion for vandalism which I believe has a 1 year maximum.

Given the extreme backlash to all this I'd feel pretty comfortable saying a not insignificant amount of people view it as worse than petty vandalism.

Well in that case, it'll come down to the opinion of whatever judge rules on the case, and then the SCOTUS, since this would be a contentious issue, and would likely be appealed till it reaches the top.