Washington & Jefferson Statue Get Pulled Down

[Shrillland]

Speaking of history being pulled down(and if this isn't the right place, please let me know, I'll make a separate thread), Mississippi just voted to strip the CSA's battle jack from their flag: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/us/mississippi-flag-confederacy.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR391kQYoypxmcslJesc_q7UOo9GsnNjM5dqc0z_dZ2KMVhafO6Ny9vDvIM&fbclid=IwAR0mCLi5mLuTdtXr_s52eeJnEWnA39eCaTnPRUuI5Pzp2omm0Q6K91FgmdI

All that's left is to change Georgia's flag, and they'll all be gone.

It's not "history being pulled down". It's a flag that has a symbol that represented a white-supremacist slave state being replaced.

Personally, I hope the entire flag gets reworked. The tricolor was unoriginal and uninspired, the white box separating the canton from the banner is horrid, and the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia is fugly as a square.

Right? As I said, it was more a poor choice of words than any sentiment for the racist traitors of the past. Personally, I think a better flag would be bouquet of Magnolias in the centre of the Mississippi Choctaw Tricolour.

[Farnhamia]

Speaking of history being pulled down(and if this isn't the right place, please let me know, I'll make a separate thread), Mississippi just voted to strip the CSA's battle jack from their flag: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/us/mississippi-flag-confederacy.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR391kQYoypxmcslJesc_q7UOo9GsnNjM5dqc0z_dZ2KMVhafO6Ny9vDvIM&fbclid=IwAR0mCLi5mLuTdtXr_s52eeJnEWnA39eCaTnPRUuI5Pzp2omm0Q6K91FgmdI

All that's left is to change Georgia's flag, and they'll all be gone.

Georgia's flag doesn't have any Confederate symbols.

[Atheris]

Speaking of history being pulled down(and if this isn't the right place, please let me know, I'll make a separate thread), Mississippi just voted to strip the CSA's battle jack from their flag: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/us/mississippi-flag-confederacy.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR391kQYoypxmcslJesc_q7UOo9GsnNjM5dqc0z_dZ2KMVhafO6Ny9vDvIM&fbclid=IwAR0mCLi5mLuTdtXr_s52eeJnEWnA39eCaTnPRUuI5Pzp2omm0Q6K91FgmdI

All that's left is to change Georgia's flag, and they'll all be gone.

Georgia's flag doesn't have any Confederate symbols.

The entire flag is the Stars and Bars with the state seal in the canton.

[Shrillland]

Speaking of history being pulled down(and if this isn't the right place, please let me know, I'll make a separate thread), Mississippi just voted to strip the CSA's battle jack from their flag: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/us/mississippi-flag-confederacy.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR391kQYoypxmcslJesc_q7UOo9GsnNjM5dqc0z_dZ2KMVhafO6Ny9vDvIM&fbclid=IwAR0mCLi5mLuTdtXr_s52eeJnEWnA39eCaTnPRUuI5Pzp2omm0Q6K91FgmdI

All that's left is to change Georgia's flag, and they'll all be gone.

Georgia's flag doesn't have any Confederate symbols.

As a matter of fact, the red-white-red field is the actual Confederate Flag: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state)

[Greed and Death]

Speaking of history being pulled down(and if this isn't the right place, please let me know, I'll make a separate thread), Mississippi just voted to strip the CSA's battle jack from their flag: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/us/mississippi-flag-confederacy.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR391kQYoypxmcslJesc_q7UOo9GsnNjM5dqc0z_dZ2KMVhafO6Ny9vDvIM&fbclid=IwAR0mCLi5mLuTdtXr_s52eeJnEWnA39eCaTnPRUuI5Pzp2omm0Q6K91FgmdI

All that's left is to change Georgia's flag, and they'll all be gone.

Georgia's flag doesn't have any Confederate symbols.

This is the first confederate flag.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_ ... %80%931863).svg

The flag of Georgia is that with the state coat of arms inside.

[Farnhamia]

Georgia's flag doesn't have any Confederate symbols.

As a matter of fact, the red-white-red field is the actual Confederate Flag: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state)

Huh, who knew? Still, the Stars and Bars has pretty much faded into obscurity. Not that it shouldn't be changed but it doesn't have the same impact as the battle flag.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Georgia's flag doesn't have any Confederate symbols.

This is the first confederate flag.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_ ... %80%931863).svg

The flag of Georgia is that with the state coat of arms inside.

It's pretty ugly, honestly.

[Fahran]

And...it actually makes sense. The truth is that the nation that they created ceased to exist a long time ago, we don't look like it, we don't act like it, and we don't want the same things that our Founders did.

And perhaps that has been our blessing and our curse in equal measure. I do not trust the iconoclasts. They have, in many instances, revealed themselves to be duplicitous in their intentions if we are to believe some of what has been stated here. They want to impose an ideology on the political community that is well removed from its roots and from what the majority wants or believes in. We should not negotiate with those who will negotiate in bad faith every couple years until they sweep the table.

It began with the removal of the Confederate monuments and we allowed that because they were traitors who had taken up arms against the Union in service to a principally wicked cause. We could rationalize that through love of country and of honor.

Then we progressed to the removal of cultural heroes who had sacrificed for the greater good, laid out the principles of our political community, and who now stood as titans looming over us and large in the stories we told about ourselves to ourselves. At the moment, we're convincing ourselves that this is an acceptable loss because, despite their contributions and sacrifices and principles, to have owned slaves is not a sin that we can forgive. And, besides all that, we've strayed far from what they believed and from what they wanted.

Even as we have this conversation, a litany of people who support the iconoclasts and count them as allies have gone a step farther still, asserting that it is acceptable to tear down any monument or statue or symbol because our values are inseparable from white supremacy and our entire culture is irredeemable unless we convert to their religion. To vandalize the statues of men who were abolitonists and who fought to abolish slavery, to topple the statues of leaders who developed national parks for conservation and who helped to blot the peculiar institution from history and who perservered through the conflagration brought about by the Nazis to stand over them in triumph is morally correct because they had their own flaws and belonging to our civilization numbers among them. Some will take statues of Marx or Debs or Malcolm X. Others will have no statues at all because such allowances unsettle them and contradict their beliefs.

I'm willing to consider the first concession but, at some point, we have to tell these zealots "no" or they will continue to provoke, agitate, guilt-trip, gaslight, and operate in general bad faith. They're little tyrants who have no popular mandate and a set of arguments that will lead us into nihilism because, despite the pretenses of being moral absolutists, many in these crowds will never hold their own heroes or themselves to the same standard of virtue. And, no, I'm not referring to everyone assembled for this purpose or everyone presenting arguments. But there's enough with the aim I have described here to warrant pushback.

[Diarcesia]

And...it actually makes sense. The truth is that the nation that they created ceased to exist a long time ago, we don't look like it, we don't act like it, and we don't want the same things that our Founders did.

And perhaps that has been our blessing and our curse in equal measure. I do not trust the iconoclasts. They have, in many instances, revealed themselves to be duplicitous in their intentions if we are to believe some of what has been stated here. They want to impose an ideology on the political community that is well removed from its roots and from what the majority wants or believes in. We should not negotiate with those who will negotiate every couple years until they sweep the table.

The conservatives' criticisms are well-founded in that regard. How can the bad faith actors be prevented from causing chaos in the society? These vocal extremists are why people can't have nice things.

[Solomons Land]

Speaking of history being pulled down(and if this isn't the right place, please let me know, I'll make a separate thread), Mississippi just voted to strip the CSA's battle jack from their flag: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/us/mississippi-flag-confederacy.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR391kQYoypxmcslJesc_q7UOo9GsnNjM5dqc0z_dZ2KMVhafO6Ny9vDvIM&fbclid=IwAR0mCLi5mLuTdtXr_s52eeJnEWnA39eCaTnPRUuI5Pzp2omm0Q6K91FgmdI

All that's left is to change Georgia's flag, and they'll all be gone.

i wouldn't regard that as "history being pulled down". Flags change all the time to represent changes in the nation (or in this case, state). Modern Germany doesn't use the Nazi flag, modern Russia doesn't use the Soviet flag, why would ex-Confederate states fly the flag of a bygone government?

Cuz I lik wit merca.

[The Two Jerseys]

It's not "history being pulled down". It's a flag that has a symbol that represented a white-supremacist slave state being replaced.

Personally, I hope the entire flag gets reworked. The tricolor was unoriginal and uninspired, the white box separating the canton from the banner is horrid, and the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia is fugly as a square.

Right? As I said, it was more a poor choice of words than any sentiment for the racist traitors of the past. Personally, I think a better flag would be bouquet of Magnolias in the centre of the Mississippi Choctaw Tricolour.

The bill says that the new flag must include "In God We Trust", so they're basically forcing it to be yet another seal on a bedsheet.

[Diarcesia]

Right? As I said, it was more a poor choice of words than any sentiment for the racist traitors of the past. Personally, I think a better flag would be bouquet of Magnolias in the centre of the Mississippi Choctaw Tricolour.

The bill says that the new flag must include "In God We Trust", so they're basically forcing it to be yet another seal on a bedsheet.

Not necessarily

[West Leas Oros 2]

Right? As I said, it was more a poor choice of words than any sentiment for the racist traitors of the past. Personally, I think a better flag would be bouquet of Magnolias in the centre of the Mississippi Choctaw Tricolour.

The bill says that the new flag must include "In God We Trust", so they're basically forcing it to be yet another seal on a bedsheet.

Pissed that my flag, like so many others, is the State Seal on a blue background. It's an insult to vexillology!

[Shrillland]

The bill says that the new flag must include "In God We Trust", so they're basically forcing it to be yet another seal on a bedsheet.

Pissed that my flag, like so many others, is the State Seal on a blue background. It's an insult to vexillology!

It could be worse, it could be a straight white background like mine.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Pissed that my flag, like so many others, is the State Seal on a blue background. It's an insult to vexillology!

It could be worse, it could be a straight white background like mine.

Ouchie. If the government ever collapses, first order of business is a new flag.

[Farnhamia]

Pissed that my flag, like so many others, is the State Seal on a blue background. It's an insult to vexillology!

It could be worse, it could be a straight white background like mine.

I think all state flags after the First Thirteen should be white with a number indicating the order in which they were admitted to the Union.

[The Two Jerseys]

The bill says that the new flag must include "In God We Trust", so they're basically forcing it to be yet another seal on a bedsheet.

Not necessarily

I seriously hope they include something like this in the proposals just to trigger all the woke people.

[Fahran]

The conservatives' criticisms are well-founded in that regard. How can the bad faith actors be prevented from causing chaos in the society? These vocal extremists are why people can't have nice things.

Conventionally? We arrest those who engage in vandalism and who strive to subvert policy and culture through less than legal means. And that should have been the initial response to iconoclasms and desecrations. We're hindered somewhat by the ill-discipline or cowardice of the police and the complicity of local officials in many places.

[Diarcesia]

The conservatives' criticisms are well-founded in that regard. How can the bad faith actors be prevented from causing chaos in the society? These vocal extremists are why people can't have nice things.

Conventionally? We arrest those who engage in vandalism and who strive to subvert policy and culture through less than legal means. And that should have been the initial response to iconoclasms and desecrations. We're hindered somewhat by the ill-discipline or cowardice of the police and the complicity of local officials in many places.

As if that's done surgically. In practice, once a few people start it, everyone's lumped with them.

[The Reformed American Republic]

The conservatives' criticisms are well-founded in that regard. How can the bad faith actors be prevented from causing chaos in the society? These vocal extremists are why people can't have nice things.

Conventionally? We arrest those who engage in vandalism and who strive to subvert policy and culture through less than legal means. And that should have been the initial response to iconoclasms and desecrations. We're hindered somewhat by the ill-discipline or cowardice of the police and the complicity of local officials in many places.

As I said before, tearing down a statue of a founding father should be punished by 15 years in prison. It would stop this shit quick if a bunch of people were arrested and sent to prison over this.

[Fahran]

As if that's done surgically. In practice, once a few people start it, everyone's lumped with them.

Policing an angry mob is never a clean business. Really, policing a single person who has no intention of being policed is difficult enough. The situation is much worse when officers have already engaged in unnecessary brutality, thus enflaming certain segments of society against them, and you have dozens or hundreds of people organized to a significant extent by ideologues who have no intention of being policed.

[Fascist PRUESSENS]

America is literally in the beginning of a cultural revolution at this point.

[Atheris]

America is literally in the beginning of a cultural revolution at this point.

Not really, no.

[Fahran]

America is literally in the beginning of a cultural revolution at this point.

Not really, no.

Not for want of trying. It's fortunate that the iconoclasts and their hardline allies are in the minority. Or else we would have something akin to a cultural revolution. Maybe not quite as dramatic as the Bolsheviks murdering poets and exiling novelists. Maybe not as bloody as the Maoists purging dissidents and bullying farmers. But a more mild one, albeit no less grotesque or contemptible.

Also, while we're sending these people back beyond the Overton Window after things calm down, we might want to do the same with the white nationalists. Obscurity suits them much better and is far kinder to them than having to contend with people who have a serious consideration for and outlook on public life.

[The Reformed American Republic]

America is literally in the beginning of a cultural revolution at this point.

Well, let's hope we can force a counter-revolution.